Rode in my first Tesla today - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

martureo · #31 04-28-2021, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

And why is that not the most commonly used method?

Because they are new.

Quote:

Direct Solar Water Splitting Processes

Direct solar water splitting, or photolytic, processes use light energy to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. These processes are currently in the very early stages of research but offer long-term potential for sustainable hydrogen production with low environmental impact.

https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-production-processes

cmac2012 · #32 04-28-2021, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martureo

The thing I like about hydrogen is that it fits our current way of fueling a vehicle. The next great thing about it is that it can be generated anywhere and by a number of means.

Yes, we can get it from electrolysis, natural gas, etc. But that means that wherever we need it, we can use a process that is best to produce it locally. We don't need to truck it all over the place (although we could).

I agree it has merit. Not accusing you of this, but I've noticed that many people seem to think it's an energy source. It is not. It is sort of an atomic battery. It essentially stores the energy that is used to produce it, or in the case of NG sourced H2, separated from a hydrocarbon. Re that, one wonders if using the NG by itself would be superior. I haven't looked very hard but I'm not sure what they do with the residue from the process. Would not be the same sort of hydrocarbon but I suspect some hydrogen would remain. My understanding so far is that sequestering carbon is difficult. My guess would be that they burn it in power plants.

Just found this site, my prediction just above is apparently incorrect, who woulda thought. There's a bit to unpack here:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/11/converting-natural-gas-to-hydrogen-without-any-carbon-emissions/#:~:text=They%20detail%20efficient%20methods%20of,fuel%20cells%20that%20power%20cars.

cmac2012 · #33 04-28-2021, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martureo

Because they are new.

https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-production-processes

And most expensive. Will improve on that score no doubt.

martureo · #34 04-29-2021, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

I agree it has merit. Not accusing you of this, but I've noticed that many people seem to think it's an energy source. It is not. It is sort of an atomic battery. It essentially stores the energy that is used to produce it, or in the case of NG sourced H2, separated from a hydrocarbon. Re that, one wonders if using the NG by itself would be superior. I haven't looked very hard but I'm not sure what they do with the residue from the process. Would not be the same sort of hydrocarbon but I suspect some hydrogen would remain. My understanding so far is that sequestering carbon is difficult. My guess would be that they burn it in power plants.

Just found this site, my prediction just above is apparently incorrect, who woulda thought. There's a bit to unpack here:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/11/converting-natural-gas-to-hydrogen-without-any-carbon-emissions/#:~:text=They%20detail%20efficient%20methods%20of,fuel%20cells%20that%20power%20cars.

Yeah, its just another type of battery really. A way to transfer and store energy by another medium.

I don't have the research to back it up, but I do know that when something doesn't have to be mobile (like in a car) then it gets easier and more efficient. I would suspect that of the numerous ways to generate hydrogen, making them stationary would allow them to be bigger, more efficient and cost less than if you tried to generate hydrogen in a moving vehicle.

To be sure though, hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are less efficient than battery powered vehicles. There's more energy lost in the transfer and there's no way to recover energy lost in deceleration as is possible in electric vehicles.

Regardless, I think the merits outweigh the problems and could offer us another parallel solution to the replacement of ICE vehicles.

75Sv1 · #35 04-29-2021, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martureo

Yeah, its just another type of battery really. A way to transfer and store energy by another medium.

I don't have the research to back it up, but I do know that when something doesn't have to be mobile (like in a car) then it gets easier and more efficient. I would suspect that of the numerous ways to generate hydrogen, making them stationary would allow them to be bigger, more efficient and cost less than if you tried to generate hydrogen in a moving vehicle.

To be sure though, hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are less efficient than battery powered vehicles. There's more energy lost in the transfer and there's no way to recover energy lost in deceleration as is possible in electric vehicles.

Regardless, I think the merits outweigh the problems and could offer us another parallel solution to the replacement of ICE vehicles.

The Fuel Cells can have 80% efficiency for stationary. I think there are 5 types. Only two are mobile. Cost vs efficiency. Also, durability and safety comes into play. I think mobile units are from 40% to 60% . Doesn't Toyota have some on the road?

sno_duc · #36 05-06-2021, 08:50 AM

Another issue with Hydrogen is leakage.
I've worked on a number of hydrogen compressors used in the hydro-cracker unit at a refinery.
We would pressure test with nitrogen to 125% of operating pressure, no leaks.
Bring the compressor online and it leaks like sieve.

cmac2012 · #37 05-09-2021, 12:55 PM

I've read about that before. Could be tough to deal with.

INSIDIOUS · #38 05-10-2021, 12:07 AM

tiny molecule

75Sv1 · #39 05-12-2021, 08:13 AM

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/bmw-plans-limited-series-hydrogen-fuel-cell-suv-2022-2021-05-12/

75Sv1 · #40 05-18-2021, 08:50 AM

https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/21/05/16/2218209/aluminum-ion-battery-claimed-to-charge-60-times-faster-hold-3x-the-energy

cmac2012 · #41 05-21-2021, 07:12 AM

Whoa. If that is for real, would be the proverbial game changer.

One sentence down a ways:

Quote:

Aluminum-ion technology has intrinsic advantages and disadvantages over the preeminent lithium-ion battery technology being used indisadvantages almost every EV today.

They don't describe the disadvantages.

75Sv1 · #42 05-21-2021, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Whoa. If that is for real, would be the proverbial game changer.

One sentence down a ways:

They don't describe the disadvantages.

True, I also received some write up on LiFe vs Lion. The LiFe had some advantages such as being near 12 volt in stack ups. Longer life and safety. It was slightly less in power density, also I think a bit in weight and charge time. So, I don't think for auto use. Possibly for stationary storage.

Capt. Mike · #43 05-22-2021, 05:42 PM

One thing is fer sure, the world is going to move towards electric, to whatever degree, and we cannot concede that move to the Chinese.

cmac2012 · #44 05-23-2021, 10:01 PM

Had a different sort of first yesterday. Saw my first Lamborghini SUV in the 'flesh,' this in the parking lot of the Mountain View Sprouts Market. One of these, white:

I thought, nice looking car and then realized that I didn't recognize the look of the nameplate. Looked closer and realized why, I haven't seen it too often.