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  #16  
Old 06-11-2021, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
Actually, Reliant and one other company will do 1:1 net metering. So any excess I produce on sunny days is put in a 'bank' and I use it 1:1 when I need to draw power.

According to Tesla, I would have to have 4 power walls to power my house for 5 days without power. Given how much power the 3T and 1.5T ac systems use, I do not see how they could last that long. My issue with the power walls is longevity. They are only guaranteed for 10 yrs which means they will likely fail shortly there after. Current price on a power wall is somewhere around $7k last I checked. If, worst case scenario, I have to replace 4 walls, that $28k out of pocket. Considering I have only lost power a handful of times over the last 20 yrs, spending that kind of money for backup power is not worth it for me.

They hybrid I am looking at is solar panels for day to day use and a 18kWh backup Generac for power failures. The only necessities are the AC, pool pump and fridge. The generator can handle that plus a few ancillary lights, ceiling fans and so forth.

They system I am considering guarantees 21 kWh a year. If I fail to produce that, the company will cut me a check for any shortage. Last year, I used a bit over 22 kWh for the year. So if that hold steady, my electric bill will be nearly zero and after the system is paid off, I will be saving about $2500 a yr in electric costs. More if/when utility prices go up.

I just do not understand why during a power failure, the power generated by the panels cannot power the house through the same switch the generator would. That does not make any sense to me.
Not sure what you mean by 1:1 net metering. It sounds like you think the power company will buy your power for what they charge their customers. I highly doubt that will ever happen, not a good business plan. Maybe let you go to zero, but doubt that also.

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  #17  
Old 06-11-2021, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
Definitely not going to lease.

Perhaps I am missing something but if a house that is not even tied to the main grid can have a solar system powering their home, why cant a house that is tied to the grid work the same way but have a switch that cuts off power to the grid when main power fails. They do it for a generator, why not for solar?

This sounds more like a legal issue than a technical one.
It can be done but it is just more expensive. Grid tied inverter is cheap. You need a more expensive hybrid inverter to do what you want plus a automatic transfer switch. Any competent sale guy can explain all these to you.
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  #18  
Old 06-11-2021, 10:21 AM
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Net metering is a gimmick. If you SIZE your grid tied system right and you use what you generate then it is perfect. So it is same as off grid. The power company pays you peanut for surplus generation, not retail price.
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  #19  
Old 06-11-2021, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
From what I can tell, this does not change the fact that the solar panels will not supply power to either batteries or the home when the grid if off line.


It does exactly that. It also can remote start a fuel based generator as needed. It is what you asked for.

It kills the grid power connection when the grid is down. It can switch to battery or gen power and you can program what power source is the priority for main power.
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  #20  
Old 06-11-2021, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by sloride View Post
Not sure what you mean by 1:1 net metering. I don't think it, I know it for a fact. It sounds like you think the power company will buy your power for what they charge their customers. I highly doubt that will ever happen, not a good business plan. Maybe let you go to zero, but doubt that also.
That is exactly what I mean and it is in the contract with the power company. They credit my excess energy at the same rate I buy it from them at. Assuming I do not use more then my panels produce over the course of a year, I will not pay a penny out of pocket for survey. The days I over produce will cover the days I under produce.
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  #21  
Old 06-11-2021, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
A kWh is not the same as a kWhr. I went through each bill and I used 22k kWh in the year. My current rate is about $.09kWh.

Are you saying that the panels produce a power that the Home cannot use but the generator does?

Maybe taking solar into account, or maybe as an average, but there's no way you use just 22kWh in a year.

Do you understand the difference between AC and DC? Your panels and your batteries produce DC power. The inverter converts that to 120V 60hz.If you were standalone solar, your inverter can use its own 60hz clock and it would be fine. But you tie into the grid, so the 60hz current produced by the inverter has to be exactly in phase with the power supplied by the grid. Otherwise, any power back fed would just be distortion and would end up dissipated as heat. So the inverter shuts down when it can't sense grid power. That's also a safety feature, so that your system isn't feeding back to the line when there is a blackout. Imagine how that would work if there are people working on the lines.

If you add a generator, the inverter should once again work, because the generator is producing 60hz current which can clock the inverter. There will be a transfer switch that isolates the house from the grid, so there is no phasing issue. At that point there's probably not much point in adding back the solar panels, because a) solar power can't back feed the generator and b) it won't have a material effect on generator fuel consumption.
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  #22  
Old 06-12-2021, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
There is no fuse to flip.
Depending on the age of your system fuse = circuit breaker. Are you trying to say you do not have a main disconnect in the service box?
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  #23  
Old 06-12-2021, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
That is exactly what I mean and it is in the contract with the power company. They credit my excess energy at the same rate I buy it from them at. Assuming I do not use more then my panels produce over the course of a year, I will not pay a penny out of pocket for survey. The days I over produce will cover the days I under produce.
I doubt you will ever be paid for one bit from your panels at the rate they sell it for. Can you go to zero, maybe but I also doubt that will happen.
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  #24  
Old 06-12-2021, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by sloride View Post
I doubt you will ever be paid for one bit from your panels at the rate they sell it for. Can you go to zero, maybe but I also doubt that will happen.
Again, let me make self clear, what you think you know is entirely irrelevant. The 1:1 metering is in the contract. I am not the only person in Texas to consider/have solar panels. The 1:1 metering is the only thing that makes the panels a viable option here.

Since you do not understand what net metering nos and you seem to have no inclination nto want to research it on your own (common theme with you) here is a net metering primer.

https://quickelectricity.com/2018-solar-panel-incentives-texas-net-metering-buyback-programs/

Green mountain offers 1:1 credit upto what you use.
https://www.greenmountainenergy.com/home-energy-solutions/renewable-rewards-perfect-match/

If I produce equal or more than I use over the course of a year, my bill will be zero.

Not sure what is so hard to understand.
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  #25  
Old 06-12-2021, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Mxfrank View Post
Maybe taking solar into account, or maybe as an average, but there's no way you use just 22kWh in a year.

Do you understand the difference between AC and DC? Your panels and your batteries produce DC power. The inverter converts that to 120V 60hz.If you were standalone solar, your inverter can use its own 60hz clock and it would be fine. But you tie into the grid, so the 60hz current produced by the inverter has to be exactly in phase with the power supplied by the grid. Otherwise, any power back fed would just be distortion and would end up dissipated as heat. So the inverter shuts down when it can't sense grid power. That's also a safety feature, so that your system isn't feeding back to the line when there is a blackout. Imagine how that would work if there are people working on the lines.

If you add a generator, the inverter should once again work, because the generator is producing 60hz current which can clock the inverter. There will be a transfer switch that isolates the house from the grid, so there is no phasing issue. At that point there's probably not much point in adding back the solar panels, because a) solar power can't back feed the generator and b) it won't have a material effect on generator fuel consumption.
Not sure if you think it is high or low but last year I used a bit over 23,000 kWh. The system I am being quoted will produce about 21,000 kWh a year so on avg, I'll be out a few bucks each year unless I fan reduce my consumption by 2,000 kWh. Might be able to shorten my pool run cycle during winter.

As for the rest, your understanding not solar is different than the sellers is.

My solar panels (should I get them) do not power my house at all...ever. They send power directly to the grid and I buy power from the grid to power my house. No idea why or how this works and it makes no sense. At any rate, the phasing issue is not an issue since it does directly to the grid. When the power goes out, there is a switch to cut the feed to protect workers on the line. The generator would be needed to power the house.

I just do not understand why the solar cannot power my house like the generator does and if the grid goes down, a switch kicks in to kill power back to the grid.
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- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
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  #26  
Old 06-12-2021, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by INSIDIOUS View Post
Depending on the age of your system fuse = circuit breaker. Are you trying to say you do not have a main disconnect in the service box?
See above. The panels do not power my household, the grid does. I do not know enough about electricity but according to them, the solar power goes to the grid and I draw power from the grid at the same time. A house with solar that is tied to the grid is set up different than. House with solar off grid.
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- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
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  #27  
Old 06-12-2021, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
See above. The panels do not power my household, the grid does. I do not know enough about electricity but according to them, the solar power goes to the grid and I draw power from the grid at the same time. A house with solar that is tied to the grid is set up different than. House with solar off grid.
I would never consider a system that couldn't stand alone off grid. But unless you have 2 meters .... you might be able to disconnect from the grid and use your solar.
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  #28  
Old 06-12-2021, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by INSIDIOUS View Post
I would never consider a system that couldn't stand alone off grid. But unless you have 2 meters .... you might be able to disconnect from the grid and use your solar.
I am guessing I would void the warranty by altering it. Being tied to the grid is the only way solar makes sense because of the net metering. I need power at night and with out batteries, I would be losing money on the deal.

Plus I do not know enough about electricity to know what I would need to do to alter the system to power my house when the power is down.
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- With out god, life is everything.
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- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
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  #29  
Old 06-12-2021, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
See above. The panels do not power my household, the grid does. I do not know enough about electricity but according to them, the solar power goes to the grid and I draw power from the grid at the same time. A house with solar that is tied to the grid is set up different than. House with solar off grid.
The house draws power from the panels, if it is not enough then it draws power from the grid. Meter goes forward. Conversely, if the panels generate too much power then it is fed to the grid, meter goes backwards. You offset what you used prior, hence net-metering. If you generate too much, then power company will pay you but NOT at retail rate.

Grid tied system needs battery or generator during blackout. Grid tied system is cheap, but adding battery will be very expensive. Get a quote from your 'Sale person' for system with battery ( or generator ) backup and decide for yourself. If the sale guy cannot explain what had been posted so far then get a different company who can.
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W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

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  #30  
Old 06-12-2021, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ah-kay View Post
The house draws power from the panels, if it is not enough then it draws power from the grid. Meter goes forward. Conversely, if the panels generate too much power then it is fed to the grid, meter goes backwards. You offset what you used prior, hence net-metering. If you generate too much, then power company will pay you but NOT at retail rate.

Grid tied system needs battery or generator during blackout. Grid tied system is cheap, but adding battery will be very expensive. Get a quote from your 'Sale person' for system with battery ( or generator ) backup and decide for yourself. If the sale guy cannot explain what had been posted so far then get a different company who can.
According to the people selling this stuff, not quite.

The panels do not power the house at all. They always send power to the grid. My house will only be powered by the grid.

You are correct about the net metering thing but here in TX it's 1:1. The rate they are selling is $.13 a kWh. I sell overage at $.13 and I buy at $.13. if I produce more then I use, I do not get surplus cash back but my electric bill will be zero.

The thing I don't get is that since the panels are sending power to the grid, why can't that post be diverted to my house when the power is out. There is a switch for the generator so that the grid does not get powered. Why not do the same for the solar?

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- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
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