I am looking into a AWD Sedan for the winter that awaits. I was wondering what the community thought of the early generation BMW IX, Mercedes 4-Matic vs. the ample Audi Quattro. How are these cars in the snow? Can they go in deep snow like an SUV? Do they loose traction as easy as an SUV? Just curious to know what we all think....

All I have heard about any of these is that the 325ix is a blast to drive and that the Mercedes 4matics eat up tires.

Early 4-matic is not a permanent system, and I'm not sure that it uses tyres much worse than a normal RWD Mercedes. Quattro is permanent, so gives handling stability benefits, is very very reliable (never *ever* hear of problems with it). BMW iX... I'm not sure how good it is or how it works.

No good for off road except in mud, as you have no ground clearance, but great in snow if you can't be bothered with changing wheels/tyres to snow tyres. You wouldn't want to go up over the wheels or driving through snow drifts in them, but a few inches of unsettled snow should be fine.

later!

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190E's:
2.5-16v 1990 90,000m Astral Silver
2.0E 8v 1986 107,000m Black 2nd owner
http://www.maylane.demon.co.uk/190esmall.jpghttp://www.maylane.demon.co.uk/190esmall2.jpg

From what I hear, AWD cars are unstoppable in the snow. My girlfriend has a Subaru, and she loves it. Never gets stuck. A lot of people are buying these cars, there must be something to them. There has to be something better than snow tires alone... Nothing like all 4 wheels working for you up a hill, driveway, etc...

The early 4-matics often tended towards expensive and frequent maintenance. The engineering for the original 4-matic was abandoned in about ’93. At the time it was first employed, around ’88 or so, it was State Of The Art. (Being a MB this is expected!) Even though it was rather cumbersome. After every full stop the 4-matic would engage in AWD with a 40/60 (f/b) power spilt. The car would stay in AWD until it was going 9 MPH and then the front drive mechanism will disengage, unless it really needed to be in AWD in the first place – which I’ll comment on below. Endlessly turning on and off the 4-matic mechanism just ate up the front suspension, steering, shocks, bushings, drive shafts, tires. If you think about it, this is no big surprise as you could and did bring 40% or more of the engine power to the front end and then abruptly disengage it. If you drive in the city, you could easily do this over 100 times a day. Turns the foreword drive and control systems of the car to Jell-O over time.

If you are on the open road a lot, the system would go much further between replacing parts. On the open road is where the AWD system just shined. The system could vary from about 15% up to about 75% traction to the front or back, seamlessly, as needed. The system employed wheel-spin sensors and the power distribution could provide major or minor change to torque as deemed necessary. Except for a little initial lag when the system was engaging at speed, it was excellent in its execution. I had a 4-matic and used it in snow/mountain country for many K miles. Loved it. But maintenance was Brutal.

With any AWD, IMHO you would be wiser add calculate costs for transfer case differential, drive shaft, and to an extent steering/suspension wear over time. In addition to the other normal wear items, of course.

What is so nice about the older 4-matic system is that it was used with the lovable 124 platform, and performed very nicely.

In MY ’98 MB started a new 4-matic system that was generations ahead of the older one and much more reliable. The ML, E320 and later the E430 used this AWD system, called 4ETS. The 4ETS and its newer relative the 4ETS+ systems are most wonderful systems. You would have to try very hard to make one of these vehicles actually spin out. Despite weight and center of gravity issues, the 4ETS and 4ETS+ outperforms anything else made. Period.

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...Tracy

'00 ML320 "Casper"
'92 400E "Stella"

Our 300TE 4matic has 214,000 miles, done in central London city stop-start traffic, and has never ever been touched or been a problem, so it can be perfectly reliable.

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190E's:
2.5-16v 1990 90,000m Astral Silver
2.0E 8v 1986 107,000m Black 2nd owner
http://www.maylane.demon.co.uk/190esmall.jpghttp://www.maylane.demon.co.uk/190esmall2.jpg

Russ,

I agree! I have a friend that has a 91 E 4-matic with about 140K miles on it and he’s only had the normal 124 issues, plus front shafts. But the thing is, that few folks are going to sell a “good” 4-matic. And the ones on the market are likely to be on the market for a reason..... I wish I had gotten a good one! ! ! !

Cheers

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...Tracy

'00 ML320 "Casper"
'92 400E "Stella"

My best friend from high school has driven 325iX's since he was 16, so I've got some anecdotal experience with these cars.

His first iX was a black 1990 2-door with a manual transmission, and his current iX is a white 1989 4-door manual. With a 5-speed and AWD, the BMW is incredibly fast off the line, and it also has a lower final-drive than standard 325i cars.

The BMW system is permanently engaged, with a normal 37% F/ 63% R torque split, but it can direct up to 90 % of torque to either the front or the rear axle. It has a center differential instead of a viscous coupling that many AWD cars use, and a rear limited-slip. No 4-matic on and off wear; the BMW system is similar to an early Audi Quattro system.

With good all-seasons, a 325iX is awesome in snow. I can't imagine what one would be like with Blizzaks or other snow tires, never been in one so equipped.

here's a link to more 325iX info:

http://home.earthlink.net/~hainesinutah/iX/general/iXfaq.html

-Sam

I had a 86 BMW 325iX in Germany with a set of 175-70-14 snow tires. It was incredible in the snow. I lived on a mountain and where cars would not be able to go any further, it was as if it were dry for me. I even could 'pop the clutch' slightly in the snow (several inches deep at least) and go full throttle up the hill, it felt like I was rallying... awesome car.

I used to have an 86 audi 5000CS quattro, and it would handle amazingly in the rain. it was a 5 spd and I could take a sharp 90 degree right at 30 and not lose traction at all!!!

True, there's the SVX.

However, it does have a good deal of transmission problems (it uses the Legacy's automatic trans, which copes with only 130 hp in a 1st generation Legacy, but gets 230 hp in an SVX).

Plus, not too many 3.3 liter flat Sixes were made by Subaru. Parts prices, anyone?

With a BMW 325iX, you get the BMW 2.5 liter SOHC Six, which BMW made countless numbers of. The BMW unit is pretty robust, and undoubtedly much easier to service than a Subaru flat-Six.

Plus, the BMW uses a Getrag 5-speed manual transmission that's very durable as long as you don't totally beat the snot out of it. Most parts are common with the regular BMW 325, made from '84 to '91.

I'm sure the SVX is a fine car, but it seems like a Japanese Porsche 928 to me. Rare and potentially expensive to own.

-Sam

I can second that comment on the durability of Subaru's.

My cousin is a Subaru fanatic, and he has two running 1978 to 1980-ish Subarus GL wagons that both have between 250,000-300,000 miles on the clock. He has a third Subaru GL, but he bought it from a junkyard to use as a donor car for parts.

He does the maintenance and repairs himself, and he claims the cars are easy to work on. I will add though, that he generally doesn't perform maintenance all that often, and he doesn't wash or wax the cars either. They look awful, the paint is shot, the interior looks terrible, but the cars just run and run and run.

Also, the cars have manual transmissions, which is another plus.

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Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

Tyres make a massive difference. I've seen an Audi A6 Quattro Avant get bogged down in light mud because it was wearing ContiSportContacts all round, where front wheel drive motors with all season tyres just kept going. A set of winter wheels fitted with mud and snow tyres will get you pretty much anywhere in snow (apart from deep stuff for which you need a SUV) and are much cheaper than a second 4x4 saloon car.

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JJ Rodger
2013 G350 Bluetec
1999 SL 500
1993 E300 diesel T
1990 190