Germans cheap or really into speed???? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#1 03-02-2003, 10:39 PM

just wondering what you guys had to say on this. After getting my pressure plate for the 533 I started to think about how almost everything on german cars is light duty. I know it saves on wieght but I hear a lot of coments like they do it because it's cheaper. I know germans are speed freaks but what do you think?

mikemover · #2 03-03-2003, 02:05 AM

I've found VERY few parts on my 300SD that I would consider "light-duty" or "cheap". It seems VERY well thought-out and constructed to me. Its excellent condition after 23 years tells me I'm probably right.

I don't know about BMWs...

Mike

DuckMuck · #3 03-03-2003, 10:27 AM

I have never got the impression that the build of a Mercedes-Benz was "cheap", although I don't approve of some of the new corner-cutting practices...in terms of reliability, that is another story...

Zeus · #4 03-03-2003, 11:41 AM

I've have to disagree with you as well. Everything about my 300E has been rock solid. Far more so than any domestic car that I've seen or owned. Same goes for Japanese imports. The 300E is one solid car - inside and out.

Curious as to how you came to this observation?

placo1 · #5 03-03-2003, 12:27 PM

I may get flamed for this but.....

It's very possible that BMW uses less materials in the interest of saving weight. This intern provides the better handling that everyone loves about the cars. I'm sure it's also a means of cost cutting to make a higher level of performance available at a lower cost.

Personally everything I've ever taken apart on my car amazes me. The build quality and materials used are top notch and the engineering behind it actually makes sense.

I've had VW's, Honda's and my parents have had Toyota's, none even come close in parts heft and quality of materials. The only other car that felt heavier than mine was my dads 300D W123. That thing was a tank!

G-Benz · #6 03-03-2003, 03:55 PM

Did that pressure plate come from a German source?

Even my old VW (German parts) are pretty stout. The Brazilian-made counterparts are another story.

If anything in the clutch compartment were to be "light duty", it certainly wouldn't be the pressure plate! And in the interest of speed, the place to reduce weight would be the flywheel. That would allow the car to rev more quickly, with the obvious tradeoff being reduced inertia (less freewheeling).

Try "popping the clutch" with a lightweight pressure plate and listen to the glorious sounds of disentigrating metal!

#7 03-03-2003, 09:59 PM

Well I know the older benz's are an exception to this. But what about the Machpherson suspensions I know the ride quality is supposed to be better but what a pain in the but it can be.
I came to this observation when I was looking at the pressure plate off the BMW in comparison to that on the S10. Seemed like there was less of everything and my clutch cost 3 times as much.
PS the clutch is made by SACH

240 Ed · #8 03-03-2003, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Machpherson suspensions I know the ride quality is supposed to be better but what a pain in the but it can be.

This design is definetly cheaper to make, and lighter weight. But you won't see a racing car with this design too often. Double A-arm is the way to go for precise handling.
Look at an older Honda and you will find this design in the rear even!
Drive a Camaro, then drive a Mustang. No contest.

FWIW, my 108 is very satisfying in a funny sor t of way. The quality is not overly apparent until you live with it a while. You can actually grease the door hinges! and you appreciate the quality of things after using them a while.
Like the hand brake handle, or the gear shift lever, or the way the door opens.
OTOH, the trunk lid seems like crap! and unnecessarily tinny. funny that...

But, all that heft in the engine and rear end, makes for a crashy ride. Steel wheels and covers don't help either.
Compare the 108 with the 123, and you will see that the ride qualities are at opposite poles (within the Mercedes globe).

If you want a lesson in quality though, you must do a tour of a Lexus LS400.
Yeah Yeah, don't start...
Check an old one out if you want, one with 200K miles, etc. Everything will probably still be working with that silkey precision, and the seats won't be broken down...

4NDELIT · #9 03-04-2003, 12:04 AM

The difference is definitley between mercedes and bmw. My bro was talking about getting an old bavaria, so we decided to compare it to my 450SL. The 450SL had a bigger engine by a full liter, but the bavaria was faster. I even upgraded the suspension on the 450sl, but the bavaria would outhandle it stock. It would also get better acceleration off the line because of the power/weight ratio. In desperation, I replied "what if we run into each other head on??? what then???" Needless to say, the mercedes would fare much better than the bmw, because of the added 670 pounds of steel. In comparing longevity, 450SL's are known to run 300K miles + because of their cast iron block, whereas the bmw's aluminum block would wear out earlier. If you want more power at the cost of safety and possibly longevity, bmw is the way to go. Of course, this only applies to older cars.