This is a report from the Associated Press

Protesters Crowd N.Y.C.'s Fifth Ave.


By ELIZABETH LeSURE
The Associated Press
Thursday, March 27, 2003; 10:21 AM


Hundreds of chanting anti-war demonstrators lined Manhattan's Fifth Avenue on Thursday and dozens lay down in the street to begin a day of planned civil disobedience actions.

Officers, some in riot gear, clamped plastic handcuffs onto protesters and loaded them into police vehicles.

Anti-war groups had called for a day of widespread civil disobedience, including blocking busy intersections and staging a "die-in" to protest media and corporate "profiteering from the war."

As helicopters hovered overhead, the protesters - chanting "Hey-hey, ho-ho, Bush's war has to go!" and "Peace now!" - jammed police pens along Fifth Avenue between 49th and 50th streets, near St. Patrick's Cathedral and the Saks Fifth Avenue store.

One lane of traffic was reopened on that block 25 minutes later.

Police and security officers placed a web of barricades at adjacent Rockefeller Center, home of the GE Building, NBC and The Associated Press, to prevent a planned "die-in" there.

Organizers of the loose coalition, which calls itself M27, said the "die-in" was intended to symbolize Iraqi war victims.

One Fifth Avenue protester held a sign showing a picture of parrots and the words, "Don't Parrot the Right-wing Propaganda."

"There's a long-standing tradition of nonviolent witness, which we're enacting today," said the Rev. Patricia Ackerman, of the Fellowship of Reconciliation and Code Pink.

Another protester, Lee Whiting, 44, held up a sign that said, "Embedded? or In Bed?" Embedded, she said, means that "journalists are presenting almost exclusively the military view of this war."

"We're seeing glorification of technology. We're seeing heartwarming moments. We're not seeing much in the way of the real casualties inflicted on the Iraqis," said Whiting, a teacher from Manhattan.

The anti-war demonstrations are costing the city millions of dollars in police overtime and drawing resources away from crime-fighting and anti-terrorism operations, Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said Wednesday.

"This is more than protest, more than free speech," Kelly said. "We're talking about violating the law."

The traffic-blocking technique was used in recent protests in San Francisco, which led to thousands of arrests and complaints that police used excessive force.


© 2003 The Associated Press

====================================================

One of my kids flew back East this week for a school trip. Today they were scheduled to visit Rockefeller Center. Because of the above protest their visit was cut short. She just left me a voice-mail message. In a nutshell, this is what she said:

"Dad, these are a bunch of filthy, disgusting, anti-American jerks. They yelled at my group and called us names. I used to think that these people were sincere in their beliefs. Now I see them for what they really are: SCUM. Any sympathy I may have had for them, or for their cause, is GONE...Love you Dad, God Bless America. Go Bush!"

Way to go anti-war movement. You've made a wonderful impression on a young person. Your attitude has done more to "convert" her that any amount of "right-wing" propaganda" that I may have fed her.

That's the way to do it, lose sympathizers, one at a time!

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Not in this weather!

What would've made them pick out your daughter's group from all the other people on the street? I've walked by several of these protests and they're usually pretty sedate.

Sounds unusual anyway...

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1988 420SEL 170K

I didn't cross-examine the scum who picked on my daughter's group. Perhaps the fact that she was part of a group of school kids having a good time, some on their first ever trip to the Big Apple, was enough to provoke the ant-American pacifist or pacifists to pick on them.

After all, if kids in Baghdad cannot go on school tours because the big, bad, mean Americans are bombing their government, maybe American kids should have to stay home too and have their day disrupted.

I compare the civil disobedience marches of the civil rights movement to the behavior of these people in New York, Chicago, San Francisco and Los Angeles and the only conclusion that I can draw is that they think that their 1st Amendment right to voice their opposition to Iraq's liberation trumps my right (and my children's) right to go about our daily business.

__________________
Current Benzes

1989 300TE "Alice"
1990 300CE "Sam Spade"
1991 300CE "Beowulf" RIP (06.1991 - 10.10.2007)
1998 E320 "Orson"
2002 C320 Wagon "Molly Fox"

Res non semper sunt quae esse videntur

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Not in this weather!

I agree. I got stuck in that traffic yesterday (they did it both yesterday and today) and I got pretty frustrated. I'm an extremely tolerant person and I believe in peoples' rights to express their opinions, but this was the absolutely wrong way to go about it. Just like there are some on this board and in society who believe that EVERYONE who does not agree with them is an anti-American, communist, anti-society lefty, the people who staged this protest took it upon themselves to make sweeping assumtions that everyone they were inconveniencing is pro-imperialism, etc.; the enemy. Everyone has the right to voice their opinion, everyone has the right to listen to what they want to listen to, everyone has the right to go about their daily lives without being forcibly obstructed by others, and EVERYONE has the right to be judged fairly by others, person by person, free from stereotypes and generalizations.

Alex

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2012 VW Sportwagen TDI Manual
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As an ex-New Yorker I apologize on their behalf. The one ass in every thousand gives us all a bad reputation. I'm all for the right to protest, certainly I've stood up for things I have felt passionately about in the past but there is a line you should not cross and they clearly did.

I suspect that one of your daughter's school friends must have zinged them or provoked them somehow to attracted that kind of attention but whatever the reason, there is absolutely no excuse for acting aggressively towards a group of kids.

Well, I hope she enjoys the rest of her trip, New York really does have a lot to offer.

Who knows maybe you can spin this into some sort of life lesson for her? (something like don't stand next the dumb guy who likes to start fights with the angry mob) :p

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1988 420SEL 170K

Well put. Very well put.

Read the title of this thread to see a prime example of sweeping generalizations and the exact kind of thinking that those protestors were displaying.

Also, characterizing that group as utterly respresentative of everyone that disagrees with the war is no better than their actions of portraying all those that agree with the action as murderous.

I'm sure there are many Americans that are against the war that love their country as dearly as any that are for the war. It's not about patriotism, it's about beliefs. It IS possible to love your country and disagree with it's government

The thing that I hope has been learned since Vietnam is that even if you disagree with the war, it's possible to support your troups. Thay are soldiers, not politicians. They do not make decisions, but simply follow orders. They are also your sons, your daughters, your Dads, your Mothers. They are your neighbours and are doing just what you might be doing today: your job. The main difference is that they are willing to risk their lives. Respect them for that. They've more than earned it.

I am saddened by our own government's actions. I agree that we needed to follow the UN's process and try to find a peaceful solution. But, no matter what transpired next, Canada should have joined the US. Boo Jean Chretien.

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John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

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Well said John!

I know my own feelings about the conflict are enourmously complicated. The idea that we should all simply fall into neatly organized catagories of 'for' and 'against' is terribly simplistic and polarizing. It leaves no room for solutions other than brute force and that is the kind of thinking (on both sides) that got us into this situation in the first place.

It has been said again and again that the very heart and soul of democracy is our right to 'agree to disagree' and yet when the moment of truth comes everyone is so quick to forget that.

I support those protester's right to voice their opinions but that support stops exactly at the point where they became threatening towards BENZ-LGB's daughter. That sort of action de-ligitimize any arguement of conscience those protesters might have been making and that's tragic.

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1988 420SEL 170K

I just got back from a trip to Vacouver, and there was a rag tag group of leftists protesting the U.S. and the war in Iraq.

They had defaced the American flag, and had the ubiquitous posters with the silly slogans "no war for oil", ad nauseum.

I was stopped at a signal, and they pushed my buttons. I'm very emotional about the flag, you know.

I rolled down the window and yelled "U.S.A" over and over again and the top of my voice.

They gave me the middle finger! Yeah, they flipped me off!

I agree with John's comments about Canada's idiot-savant Prime Minister, Chretien. The guy and his Cabinet are a bunch of numb skulls. They have called bush a moron, a bastard, etc.

I don't think Canada should be compelled to join in the military fight, but he could've found a way to contribute in some way, perhaps a hospital ship or some other humanitarian way.

You always find out who your friends are when times get rough, don't you?

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Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

First, I know that the behavior of the leftist scum (more about that later) is not representative of either: (a) New Yorkers in general (so no need to aplogize on behalf of New Yorkers or (b) of some of the people who oppose the war.

There are a number of reasons why a person may oppose the wart. Most, if not all, of those reasons are invalid (in my opinion). But what is happening here (as Mike has illustrated so well in a number of his recent threads) is that the anti-war movement has been hijacked by leftist goon who couldn't care less about peace or solidarity with the Iraqui people. These leftist goons have convinced soccer-moms, students and aging hippies to fall in line with them. Their aim, however, is not make America look bad, regardless of what the situation is.

These people need to keep in mind that demonstrating against the war is only prolonging it. Saddam et al. are toast. His only hope is to prolong the conflict long enough for ant-war protesters to exert enough pressure on governments to force them into a brokered peace. As long as saddam and his henchmen get to watch images of anti-war demonstrators he will continue to send his suicide terrorists into battle.

Second, for those of you who think that my thread title is an example of a "broad generalization" take a look at this link:

http://www.anarco-nyc.net/redandblack.html

This is the organization that organized today's riots. Do you see the "red and black" appellation on their url? That refers to the "red and black" communist brigade. Red and black are the colors of castro's communist revolution as are the colors of many old and current communist groups.

Also, look at all the organizations linked to the "m27 coalition." The overwhelming majority are left-leaning or outright communist groups.

If you think that the people rioting in SanFran, New York, LA and Chicago are peace-loving students, like in Kent State, think again. Some may be, but their leaders definitely are NOT.

In light of the above, I think that the title "leftist peacenik scum" fits them just fine.

So getting back to my original premise...the rioters' boorish behavior has now caused at least one young person (my daughter) to turn her back on them. She will return home and she will tell her friends about the goons, and (hopefully) her friends will do the same. And so it goes, more rational, clear-thinking people will end up turning against the peacenik goons...

__________________
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1989 300TE "Alice"
1990 300CE "Sam Spade"
1991 300CE "Beowulf" RIP (06.1991 - 10.10.2007)
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My Gallery

Not in this weather!

The thing I keep on thinking is I don’t even have time to drive by and flip them off let alone lay in the middle of a street all day, it’s no wonder why they hate corporate America, they can’t get jobs.

Actually, we do have troops on the ground in Iraq. They are not serving combat roles, but in logistics and communications. Seems some smart commander found a way around our stupid PM after all...

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John Shellenberg
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John, thanks for that, it was the best news I've had all day...

Now, on to the original topic. I happen to agree with EJ, these protesters DO NOT speak for America, or for the majority (over 70%) of us that are in favor of this war.

Our military is engaged in a campaign to free the Iraqi people from a brutal and sadistic dictator who would gladly see all of us, whether pro-war OR anti-war, dead in our graves. We should make no mistake, there are forces in this world that are aligned with a common wish to end our existance because of what we stand for as a nation. Our values are directly opposed to their objectives of control and subjugation of helpless people. Yet our government is painted as the aggressor, as the "Great Satan". The terrorists will not spare someone or their family because they marched against the war. They think these protesters are spineless, weak, and pathetic, with no loyalty to our own people.

The protesters want us to believe that this war is wrong and that it is motivated by our own government's greed and secret political agendas. That's just what the terrorists want. It's easier to destroy us if we're divided. And protesting this war through civil disobedience, blocking traffic, acts of violence and diverting law enforcement assets from protecting the general welfare of our citizens is what is really wrong here. We are supposed to be in a "Code Orange" state of heightened alert. How can our police properly respond to their responsibilities with regard to homeland security when they have to put officers on 12 hour shifts and pay them overtime to deal with these anti-war protesters?

If someone is against this war, then they haven't done their homework. If someone is protesting against our troops being in Iraq, they are saying that they don't acknowledge the horror, torture and mutilation that Saddam and his followers have brought to so many innocent people. If the protesters think that there is no connection between 9/11, Al Que'da, and what we're doing in Iraq, they are fooling themselves, and even worse, are trying to fool other people into ignoring the facts. And THAT is the greatest crime of all.

I don't live in a major city, I live in Santa Rosa, CA, in the wine country of the Sonoma Valley. We are a medium sized community that is the County seat, but hardly a left-wing radical playground like San Francisco, which is about 50 miles south of here. This is an agricultural area that has recently become part of the telecom industry and a host to tech companies like Hewlett Packard and Agilent.

My family inadvertently passed a group of anti-war protesters in our Mercedes the other day, and my nine-year-old son was immediately frightened of them. He was shocked by the blatant profanity on their signs they held up, he was confused by their violent messages and gestures supposing to represent a call for peace, he was angered by their treatment of our nation's flag, and he was terrified when they started to come near our car. The local police diverted them before they got right up to the car, but that impression of fear had already been made on a little boy.

These people want to claim that they are trying to protect children from war, but the way they're doing it scared the hell out of my son! My wife and I spent two hours talking with him before he started feel safe again. Everytime we go somewhere, he still asks me to avoid major intersections so we won't come near any protesters.

You don't have to be an adult to see through these people and know what true evil looks like. Remember the saying, "from the mouths of babes"? Great message and object lesson to teach my son, thanks anti-war freaks for all of your eforts to protect the innocent. . .

__________________

Scott Longston
Northern California Wine Country...
"Turbos whistle, grapes wine..."

God bless that brave commander!

He deserves a raise!

And a promotion!

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Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

Well, here in Australia we've been having a lot of these so called "peace" protests. Though I never knew the way to express peace was to hurtle chairs at police and destroy property.