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  #1  
Old 05-13-2003, 04:53 AM
Johnson Chan
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Possible reason why japanese cars are so reliable...

This is an excerpt from my international marketing textbook:

"Marketing globally also ensures that marketers have access to the toughest customers. For example, in many product and service categories the Japense consumer has been the hardest to please; the demanding customers are the reason that the highest-quality products and services emanate from that country. Competing for Japanese customers provides firms with the best testing ground for high-quality products and services"

well japanese cars (in general) are pretty reliable etc. so maybe its because of there culture and viewpoints which forces automakers to do this.

Now back to studying for my finals

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  #2  
Old 05-13-2003, 08:01 AM
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how does that statement apply to the 70's and even early 80's when toyotas all rusted into the ground? in the meantime MB's from that era are still around today.

i think that japanese carmaking evolved very rapidly from around that time. their industry in general focused on quality issues and some of their methodologies have even made their way into this country. i think everyone else lagged behind in this respect.

while they succeeded in that aspect, there were other areas where they did not. case in point is their much vaunted 5th generation software thrust of the 80's. that was a crash and burn and never really got anywhere. it seems that improvement is their forte, while innovation is not.
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Last edited by jsmith; 05-13-2003 at 08:27 AM.
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  #3  
Old 05-13-2003, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jsmith
their much vaunted 5th generation software thrust of the 80's. that was a crash and burn and never really got anywhere.
Actually I was involved in the prolog (AI) part of that. Their downfall (and the downfall of LISP) was largely due to the paradigm of the day that the brain was just a very fast and complex computer.
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Old 05-13-2003, 08:45 AM
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hey kuan,

i was in an "advanced technology group" in the 80's and some of our guys were into AI's, prolog and neural networks etc. i used to tease them about their "furry logic" (my software background was in traditional procedural code). early on some of that did made it's way into electronic assisted automatic transmissions where the confused chips kept the car hunting for gears going up some moderate grades
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  #5  
Old 05-13-2003, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jsmith
how does that statement apply to the 70's and even early 80's when toyotas all rusted into the ground? in the meantime MB's from that era are still around today.
They were behind. Consumers may have been asking for reliable long-lived cars, but the Japanese manufacturing technology had not caught up yet. Evidently they were working like buggers on it though, as their product quality was passing "Big Three" by the early 1980's and reaching the Germans by the early 1990's.

It is impossible for any industry to wake up one morning and create radically better products. It took time for the Japanese manufacturers to refine their production technology, educate generations of engineers and study other firms.

While I'm not a big fan of "Japanese" cars in general (few offer driving pleasure) I acknowledge their strides in reliability, quality at a low price, and marketing genius. Look at Honda. Those folks are brilliant. They don't have 300 models. They have a small car line, a family car line, a mini-van, and a couple sizes of Utes. Throw in the S2000 for bragging rights, and presto, a terrific model line up. Each line shares platforms and drivelines to minimize production costs. Consumers are not baffled by product overload.

In Japan, they also work very hard to ensure competition between their companies. They take anti-monoploy laws pretty seriously, and believe that the competition between Japanese firms is one of the primary drivers behind their competitive edge with the rest of the world. US firms thought that restrictive trade measures were to insulate Japanese firms from competition, but that was not the case. It was to ensure a home market for Japanese firms competing with each other.
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Old 05-13-2003, 04:34 PM
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Platform strategy, nice idea

When Piech took CEO of Volkswagen, the company had a whole bunch of different cars. They aquired Skoda, Seat togehter with the already affiliated Audi.

Then came Lopez with his new ways of procurement (lower the quality until guarantee costs are higher than saved money)

Then came Piech with his platform strategy. The idea was to have five basic cars platforms and to badge-engineer the different models around it.

Piech left and with beginning of 2003 they ended up with 28 different platforms. Including the beetle, which is still in production in Mexico and which is the only car which really deserved to be called being build on a platform

Kind regards
Eberhard
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  #7  
Old 05-13-2003, 04:55 PM
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Honda is proliferating models pretty good these days. They now have two mini-utes, which confuses me - why have both the CRV and the Element? Plus they have the big 'ute (Pilot) and Odyssey, Accord and Civic. They also have the S2000 and Insight - both small volume cars. Granted, there's a fair amount of platform sharing going on, but I think that's six unique platforms.

Honda may be oversimplifying. I looked at Accords earlier this year. Each exterior color comes with one, and only one, interior color. Want silver? Hope you like black interiors. Want white? Better like tan. The Accord is not available in an exterior/interior color combination that I like. That's one reason why I didn't purchase one.

- JimY
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  #8  
Old 05-13-2003, 04:57 PM
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Many of these Japanese cars are make here in the US. I think it is a total disgrace for GM, Ford, and Chrysler to continue to lag behind Honda and Toyota in quality and reliability. The cars made by the Big Three also depreciate a lot more than MB, Toyota, and Honda. Now that the Japanese are making a big push into the large pickups market, which has been dominated by the Big Three, it would be interesting to see how would Detroit respond to this
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  #9  
Old 05-13-2003, 06:04 PM
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Japanese cars seem to be more reliable than other makes but what else do they offer? I hate my Camry it's slow, handles poorly, and has realy bad breaks. It also doesn't like cruiseing at 90+mph. But it's reliable, it is 10 years old and has had 131k trouble free miles. But I look forward to the day when I get rid of it. Also not all Japanese cars are so reliable, does anybody remember the Toyota sludgeing problems with there 1996 and newer 4 clinders? Or how about there head gasket issues with there V6's? One of my friends has a brand new 2003 Honda Accord, fully loaded with less than 1,500 on the clock and it has been in the shop twice. I feel sorry for the poor people working on it. Japanese cars may be reliable but when they do break they are a pain to fix.
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Old 05-13-2003, 06:12 PM
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We have owned a Honda product since our first new 1986 Honda Accord. I would have to go back to around 1972 if I included the motorcycles. Anyway, as far as cheap to operate and run I don't have anything but good things to say. The current CRV has 130k+ miles and I have just recently replaced the front rotors. I went to Mobil 1 at 110k miles without any leaks appearing. It has NEVER had a check engine light come on and is still on the original O2 sensors. It will cruise at 80 mph all day long with the a/c going full blast and still get between 22 and 24 mpg. I do notice that the 1/2 shaft on the passenger side front is starting to leak a little but my plans are to run it to failure. I had a friend run his 1/2 shafts to failure on a 80's Camry and he got up to around 230k before he finally had to replace them. His car is over 320k miles now. Granted it is not as sturdy as a W123 at that mileage but it is still going and getting good mileage. I did take the CRV to the dealer and have the timing belt, cam/crank seals and water pump changed at 110k miles per the book. I have yet to do a timing belt on a car. I don't consider it that big of a deal every 110k miles to pay someone to do it.
Oh yea - I kinda like the Element.
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Old 05-13-2003, 06:23 PM
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To work on front wheel drive japanese cars is a nightmare!

To replace the clutch at our Suzuki Alto we had to lift the engine from the engine bay. Well, good oportunity to clean up that thing, but still a lot of work for a very small car.



A friend of mine worked at a Mitsubishi dealership.

To work at the AC at the the Carina you need wrenches size 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 19 mm

Very strange!

Kind regards
Eberhard
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  #12  
Old 05-13-2003, 06:42 PM
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I think what sets them apart is their ability to adjust to wide spread criticism and issues related to their products. If their getting complaints you can bet your life the same problem won't show up in the next model. The big three simply laugh in the face of criticism.
When I think of the two ideologies I think of the analogy of a tanker making a turn as opposed to a speed boat making a turn.
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Old 05-13-2003, 07:16 PM
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While we may prefer our Mercedes products to most Japanese products (I like the S2000 and the G35 Coupe lots...), there is a large segment of the population that thinks of cars as simple appliances, and not devices for creating joy.

They want their car to start everyday, get them to where they are going, and not require tons of repairs. They want cheap tires and low maintenace schedules. They want the car to outlive the payment period by a couple years, and then they want a reasonable dollar for a decent 5-7 year old car.

Honda and Toyota understand that COMPLETELY. The Accord and Camry are built just for those folks, and they sell over a million a year combined in the US alone. Pretty smart folks working there, methinks.

My wife is one of the above mentioned folks. She enjoyed her C36 while she had it, but purely for the novelty. She bought her E300 on the premise that it would fulfill her "appliance" need, and it did not. It was horribly unreliable and required frequent trips to the dealer. Her Subaru is completely the opposite. So far it has not even hiccuped.

I like the Subie in inclement weather, but in dry conditions, it's just another "non-Mercedes" automobile. Nothing special about it at all. I see why Subaru went AWD line wide. Without that, why bother? Just buy an Accord.

When it comes time to replace the C230, I have no idea of what I'll do. I know so many later model (2001+) MB's that can't wait to rid themselves of their cars, it makes me hesitate on buying another one. With MB's platforms being rolled under Chrysler sheetmetal, it dilutes the brand.

Maybe I'll just buy an Accord, sell the 750ACE and C230, and buy a GSX-R1000 or Hayabusa to keep life interesting...
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  #14  
Old 05-13-2003, 10:42 PM
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the secret of their success is in their corporate culture and processes.

the corporate culture has to be highly evolved to such a degree that each employee has a sustainable level of personal commitment to it.

their processes in general, follow a pattern of "continuous improvement". Lexus's "relentless pursuit of perfection" is the embodiment of such a passion.

to a certain extent, there is also a cultural factor here. Japanese traditionally have placed a high value on loyalty towards their employers, which could be an extension of their feudal heritage. Because of this, it was relatively easy to obtain the level of personal commitment that is so important in quality production.

Japanese manufacturers are also more willing than their Western counterparts to take the long-term view of things. Lexus originally planned to sustain losses in their first 5 or so years. Western corporations on the other hand, are pressured by their boards and stakeholders to produce results every fiscal year.

"Lexus" has thus replaced "Cadillac" in our lexicon when describing high-quality objects.
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  #15  
Old 05-14-2003, 12:32 AM
smalltime
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I cannot believe that no one has mentioned Dr. Deming. Dr. W. Edwards Deming is without a doubt, the leading catalyst behind the increased quality of Japanese Automobiles and Electronics since WWII. When Detroit said no to Dr. Deming, because they thought they had a captive audience, Japan gave a resounding YES.

Look it up.

Steve

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