Okay, here's the update.

After not seeing each other for almost two weeks, due to schedules and her leaving town on vacation for a week, Barbara and I got together Monday evening for dinner.

She was out at her parents' house tending the garden during the day; they're still in NC for another week. Our plans were for me to pick her up there, have dinner, then for me to show her pictures I took during my last vacation to Europe a couple months ago.

I gave her a hug when she opened the door. We talked for a little bit, then decided to eat first before looking at the pictures. It was raining, so it was nice walking together under my umbrella, though I didn't really put my arm around her, just a couple times briefly.

We ate at Clyde's Steak House. Great dinner and, as usual, great conversation. Man!, what a repor we have. We talked mostly of some of the crazy things we did in our youths and had a lot of fun. Never a lull, never a dull moment.

After dinner, we returned to her parents' house. Of course, we were the only ones there. She poured us each a shot of some kind of liquer. I'm not really a liquer kinda guy, but thought it nice for each of us to have a little. (Always helps a bit anyway, right?)

We sat at the corner of the dining room table and looked through each of the 200+ pictures. I think she really enjoyed it. She's done a lot of traveling herself and, like me, really enjoys photography. A couple times we were pretty close to each other while looking at a photo, and the thought entered my mind to just lean over and give her a kiss, but I still wasn't sure what her comfort level was, so I didn't.

After we finished looking at the pics, we talked for a bit more. What I didn't like, was the fact that she was leaning back into her chair instead of forward towards me. But we were both still pretty comfortable.

Finally, she said, "Well, I should let you go..." "Yeah, it's getting a little late," I replied. It was about 10:30 or so. I put the photos back into my bag and we got up and walked towards the front door.

Instinctively, I knew she wasn't going to walk me to my car, as she had each time before. I was beginning to get the feeling that yet another date was to pass without either a kiss or any indication on either of our parts as to weather this was going anywhere romantically or not.

She opened the door and I stepped out onto the landing. As I turned around, I immediately regretted having done that as I was now below her eye level, putting me at somewhat of a disadvantage should I choose to lean forward and kiss her.

We talked briefly of the possibility of getting together with her friend (and one of my housemates), Mike and his girlfriend this Friday night for an outdoor movie in a local park. She didn't know if she's be able to get out of a bridal shower she was supposed to go to, but said she'd let me know.

That was it, time to say goodbye and I hadn't learned or gotten any feeling or indication form the date as to what was on her mind regarding "us". I stood there for a second or so as this realization sunk in, and knew that if I didn't do at least something I was neither man enough or deserving of any kind of relationship. I hated the idea of driving home and, at least for the next few days, pondering and over analyzing everything until I was miserable.

"Can I ask you a question?", I asked casually, as my heart began to beat out of my chest. I leaned against the door jam and crossed one foot over the other casually.

"Sure", she replied.

"Are you interested in christian dating?", I asked.

"What's christian dating?" she asked.

"I'm not sure," I replied, "just dating the 'right' way" I answered. I continued, "I've had a really great time with you during the time we've spent together. I think we have a lot of fun and I like you a lot. I'm not sure where it would necessarily lead, but I'd like to find out."

"I'd like to find out too", then added, "Do you mean exclusive dating?"

"No not necessarily", I answered.

I'm not sure what she was thinking, I may have caught her off-guard with the question.

"Well, can I think about it?", she asked.

"Sure," I answered, "but you'll have to let me know, I'm not one to pressure in that way."

I paused for a second and, with a little smile, said what I had told myself I absolutely would NOT say to her. "I think you're pretty neat!" [What a dork!]

She got a little smile herself and replied, "I think you're pretty neat too!"

I leaned forward and gave her a hug, with the usual kiss on the cheek. Turning, I said, "Let me know about Friday night."

"Okay", she answered.

There was no light on in the doorway. I said a little prayer as I tried to walk down the stairs to the walkway without tripping and looking like a total idiot. I then "casually" walked down the walkway to my car (the E-320... there's my Benz reference to legitimize this post!) and drove home.

POST SCRIPT:

There was no communication on Tuesday, but today I received this email from Barbara:

"Stefano,
Thank you very much for dinner at Clydes. It was very nice and good to hear about some of your crazy times. I wanted to let you know asap that I can't make Friday night. I guess I'm not really sure what Christian dating is either. I'd be interested in finding out. I've tried to be open to dating. I haven't dated much in the last ten years but the last year has been different. I've tried to just go out and have a good time. If something more comes of it then so be it. I hope I've been charitable to you.

I would like to talk more and really didn't intend to mention all of this on email... sorry. Barbara"

I sent this reply tonight:

"Hi Barbara,

Don't worry about Friday night-- I knew you had possible plans, so it wasn't completely fair of me to ask. Hope you all have fun!

I agree about the dating part. I'm not sure exactly what Christian dating is either, except to think that it would be at least honest and platonic. From what you've said, I think we may have similar dating histories. If you're comfortable, we could talk more about this in person-- but only if you're comfortable. Email certainly isn't a great venue for subjects like this. Just let me know; like I said, I'm not one to pressure in this regard.

Have a great week!

Stefano

PS Yes, you've been charitable ot me.... you've shown more than a lot of class."


So there you have it. That's where things stand.......

Hate to tell you this, but I have a bad, bad vibe about it. Seems like she is cruising but waiting to see what comes along. My suggestion- stop expecting stuff, see other people and relax. In my experience- IF woman is interested, slightly off-handed interest on your part may spur her to action. If she is not interested, at least you are not hanging. Go on a date with somebody else (platonic). Make yoursel unavailable soon (as in, gee, I'm sorry, but I planned on going sailing this weekend) Do not act disinterested, but let her know that a) you have your own life and b) that you are willing to move forward with the relationship if she is and c0 you will NOT wait forever. At the worst you will know. At the VERY worst, you two will get married. Just kidding. At for the love of God- make sure she NEVER sees this post!!

__________________
1985 190D 2.2l Sold-to Brother-in-law
1996 Mustang 3.8l -"thinks it's a sports car"
1988 Grand Wagoneer - Sold (good home)
1995 Grand Cherokee Ltd -"What was I thinking??!!"

Damn, I've got to agree with Gord...

__________________
1985 190D 2.2l Sold-to Brother-in-law
1996 Mustang 3.8l -"thinks it's a sports car"
1988 Grand Wagoneer - Sold (good home)
1995 Grand Cherokee Ltd -"What was I thinking??!!"

Ding ding ding ding! To me THAT is the most revealing statement in this. Either something happened ten years ago, or something has been happening for the past 10yrs, and it has made her more than a little gun-shy. Has she told you what that might be?

__________________
Natalie

oooops, missed that one. You are right. Trauma! But "this year was different" means Stefano, or that she is dating 15 other guys just now???

__________________
1985 190D 2.2l Sold-to Brother-in-law
1996 Mustang 3.8l -"thinks it's a sports car"
1988 Grand Wagoneer - Sold (good home)
1995 Grand Cherokee Ltd -"What was I thinking??!!"

She was in a relationship within the past year or so. It got off okay, but the guy got a little too physical a little too fast.

She talked to him about it and tried for a bit more, but he didn't change his tune. So she ended it.

As to why she didn't date for ten years or so, who knows. Maybe a job thing or something. I worked nights for eight years, during which dating was pretty sparse as well.

Off to bed..... thanks for the posts!!

Stefano,

It isn’t the kiss, it is your confidence-

Let me illustrate: I can see her calling her good friend after your last date and saying-

“Yes, Stefano is so nice. We have a lot of fun together. We had a great dinner. Looked at pictures for hours. But he doesn’t want to kiss me. It makes me so sad. I was hoping he was the one. Can you imagine he doesn’t even want to kiss me! Oh dear, what is wrong with me? I guess I will have to keep looking.”

Stop thinking and start acting. The next opportunity, put your hand(s) gently on the sides of her face, look deeply into her eyes and kiss her.

There, you have permission to do what you have been feeling you have wanted to do since you met her.

Stop thinking and start acting. Women want men with feelings and know how to act on them.

Haasman

PS- Forget the Christian dating thing. You don’t know what it is and she doesn’t either.

__________________
'03 E320 Wagon-Sold
'95 E320 Wagon-Went to Ex
'93 190E 2.6-Wrecked
'91 300E-Went to Ex
'65 911 Coupe (#302580)

Sorry, but I have to agree here as well. You can still be the nice guy and be confident. It seems that you are afraid of her rejecting you that you are dancing all around the issue....she is getting mixed signals from you (a major turn-off).

Back off and re-group (i.e. see other people) or "make your move"

Just telling em to get in the truck always worked for me.

This young lady has some "issues" Stefano. I would not waste anymore of my time with her unless she is filthy rich. There is a reason she is at the age she is and has never been married.

I would keep looking around and be open to finding/dating others. Have you contacted "Elimidate"?

__________________
Jim

There are a number of reasons why someone hasn't dated in "ten years"...for one thing, I don't fully believe that figure...she may not even have considered your latest encounter a "date", so to speak, but perhaps she has not been in any serious relationships for a decade...means a whole different thing.

Some women are aggressive and have no trouble giving out strong hints that they are interested, while others hope the partner takes charge. Your friend is the latter. She seeks direction in the relationship, and your cautious approach is confusing her at best. Then you bring up "Christian dating", which while I understand the gist of your plan, it sounds a bit eccentric to her.

You can have a upstanding "Christian" relationship without attaching a tag to it.

You've set a weird foundation for a relationship at this point, and you may have told her without knowing it that you're not interested in her enough to really "want her".

She wanted you to sweep her off her feet...she had hoped you would have looked into her eyes, held her hands and said something like, "I am insatiably attracted to you, and I want to be with you!" That would have sent her heart skipping! Especially if you had sealed it with a kiss!

Women want to be romanced, not sales pitched!

__________________
2009 ML350 (106K) - Family vehicle
2001 CLK430 Cabriolet (80K) - Wife's car
2005 BMW 645CI (138K) - My daily driver
2016 Mustang (32K) - Daughter's car

I agree with Haasman and El Presidente.

Completely.

You need to start acting on your feelings. This sounds more like a courtship in the 1800's, ala Gone with the Wind, than a modern one.

From reading all of your posts, you like her very much, and are quite taken with her. You would like to see where this will lead, right?

Then when she asked you if you were looking for exclusive dating, and you said "no, not necessarily", what were you thinking, man? It souns like your insecurity got the best of you.

Of course you want to date her exclusively! Does it make you want her more to think that it's o.k. for her to date other men at the same time?

I think privately you let her down.

Start making the move, man!

__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

Well, it's all moot this point.

Just got a call from her. She wanted to give me an answer to the question of dating.

She just wants to be friends.

Over-and-out on this one.

Story of my life so far, time to make some changes.

Stefano

This, my friend, is a good thing!

You are now both on parity. No more outting her on a pedestal.

Don't take this as a loss or a setback. You are very lucky to be where you are now.

You are seeing that doubting only provided uncertainty. Now relax. Be who you really are. Did I say relax? Let it flow.

Call her up, ask her out. Just be who you are. Act like you are going out with your sister. Tell her everything. Talk with her AND include that you were nervous to kiss her. If she is as you have described her, she will respect and possibly adore you for YOU being who you are.

Have a great time. Have a wonderful evening. At the end, reach over and kiss her, a good one!

Go home and smile!

You deserve at least this.

Haasman

PS: NO GIVING UP! She means much too much to you. Go man go!

PSS: On another personal note, years ago, before I met my wife, I met a woman that absolutely totalled me. She was just an incredible person. Beyond what I had ever imagined.

I was jelly, worthless, incapable of even speaking correctly infront of her. This was my "be who you are" lesson. I whimpered away knowing that I would never be "enough" .... so I thought .....

Years and years later, I ran into a friend who said "she always thought you would have been great for her, she asks about you frequently .... but thought you didn't like her or something. Something was getting in the way ........"

Yeah, it was me, I was in the way of getting want I wanted. I recommend being who you are at all costs. If it doesn't work, it simply won't. But don't ever start being something you are not. Sooner or later it will fail.

The best you is the genuine 100% you.

__________________
'03 E320 Wagon-Sold
'95 E320 Wagon-Went to Ex
'93 190E 2.6-Wrecked
'91 300E-Went to Ex
'65 911 Coupe (#302580)

Stefano,

I have been following this post closely as I recently started seeing a girl and I am in a similar predicament. We are about ten years younger and not very religious but I don't think that matters a whole lot. We will be going on our 4th date tomorrow and I have not received a kiss yet. Just the usual hugs and kisses on the cheek. I have been wanting to make the first move but I haven't received any indication to proceed. We get along very well and always have plenty to talk about. We've known each other for about 3 weeks now. We've talked on the phone every 2-3 days since we first met and everything seems to be OK except for that first kiss. This is foreign to me as I usually "jumped" into things right away in the past but for some reason its not bothering me as much as I thought it would. I have talked with her about past relationships and she has had a rough past with men, emotionally speaking, so I'm not stressing the issue. I think if I didn't I feel she's worth it, I would have written her off already. I guess my point is that people are different and there are some out there that are VERY different and you need to be respectful of that. While I don't know what's going through the minds of these women, I do feel that they are holding back for some reason other than they don't like us. I know some you will disagree but I'm going to take my chances and see.

Thanks for the advice, again!

Who knows what goes on in the minds of women-- or anyone for that matter.

I believe what you say about being myself. Truth is, I was completely myself, except for that one thing: not being very forward with her. I've NEVER been a situation where I went on more than one date with a woman without kissing her. It's usually on the first date, but it's never gone passed the second date, so it's not so much a confidence issue with me.

In regards to Barbara, I had been given advice from one of her closest friends that her mindset was one of taking it slow and also not getting too physical. My mistake was assuming a kiss would be too much too soon.

I'm not sure where I'll take it from here. I am fond of her and wouldn't want to be a "jerk" by forcing the issue, taking her out again for dinner, and pushing the kiss..... but maybe that's exactly what I need to do. At least I wouldn't have anything to lose at this point. But I do value our friendship and don't want to jeopardize that either.

Too much to think about.

When I logged on right now, I was intending to write her an email to try to get rid of any misunderstandings. I'd explain to her that my approach with her was a bit different than I had ever used before-- the lack of typical romance and the kiss. I did suggest to her a few weeks back (after our second date, I think) that I'd like to come over to her house and make her dinner. "Too soon!", she said, followed by "Not really!" I took that to be her message that she wanted to take things slow, though she didn't want to offend me with my suggestion by adding the "Not really" part. But I figured she really did think it was too soon.

Who knows.

Maybe I'll break the code I set up with her friend (one of my housemates) and talk to him about it. He knows her pretty well. And, of course, he was the one who "clued" me in about her last relationship being too physical for her and that she wanted to take things slowly and set up a real basis before anything else happened.

I guess I should get my head out of the 1800's though.

I'll hols on that email for now, maybe call in a couple days and ask her to dinner. Too much??