I've heard folks say that RWD is superior to FWD. The biggest evidence I have of that is that hard core race cars are RWD. However, on a daily basis I see an example of how FWD works better in some cases.

I make a left over trolley tracks that make up the center divide. In the Caravan, I feel the tracks like any other bump in the road rain or shine. In the SDL or S420, I feel the rear wheels slip on the tracks. When it's raining I can get enough slip to handle most of the turn without much steering wheel input. Kinda fun now that I've learned to time it properly. I don't notice a difference in how the Caravan takes the turn when it's wet. Just goes where it's pointed.

Both MBs have H-rated MXV4+'s with over 50% tread, the Caravan has 30K on Bridgestone 930i's. I don't have to deal with snow or slush and I don't recall seeing ice around here.

So short of taking a full on driving course, how does RWD benefit someone like me?

Sixto
95 S420
87 300SDL
83 300SD

Sixto-

You like to work on your SDL. Imagine if that car was front wheel drive. The engine wouldn't fit sideways in the engine compartment (as big as the 216 bay is..). A V-formation would have to be used. Try changing the spark plugs on a FWD v6, then an L6. On top of this, the weight distribution would be way off.

Both ways have their advantages and disadvantages. Luckily we have choices.

Mike

__________________
'90 300SE 298k
-300K and it gets put into retirement.
'80 300D 255k Purchased new by family in 1980.

Had a:
1973 220 (gas)
1980 300SD
1992 400E

Good point, however many FWD cars have longitudinal engines. I believe the bigger VWs and Chrylsers are this way. It's feasible to configure the SDL with the only the forward function of a 4-Matic drivetrain, as undesireable as that sounds.

But my question is only about traction

Sixto
95 S420
87 300SDL
83 300SD

Your S420 has 275hp. Go drive a high HP front wheel drive car. Pick the new Maxima or Acura TL. They both torque steer like mad and are not at all peasurable to drive unless you're pussy-footing around.

FWD is terrific for low HP commuter applications where torque steer is not a factor and packaging and costs are prime concerns.
Go talk to Nissan about FWD...

All their new Infiniti products are RWD or AWD.

How about Honda, the king of FWD? The S2000 and NS-X are RWD.

Even in lower HP applications, some of us like our steering wheels disconnected from the drive wheels. Driving a FWD car in snow to me is a frustrating experience fraught with understeer and abrupt trailing throttle oversteer. Yuck.

Also, engine bay space is gone. I can't work on our old 626 at allm but have no problem working on the C230.

We've covered this topic a few times, do a search...

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John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif

Well, as far as traction goes, FWD has it all over RWD. We will have to exclude systems like ESP, ASR and ASD to keep the waters clear. My 400E is all over the road in the rain, and in the snow...fuhgettaboutit Drove a toyota corolla in the snow last year and it was great. But like blackMBZ said, FWD is no fun to drive. Feels TERRIBLE after an MB, especially.

What it probably comes down to is packaging. I guess the automakers can assemble the car faster if the drivetrain is all one unit.

__________________
'90 300SE 298k
-300K and it gets put into retirement.
'80 300D 255k Purchased new by family in 1980.

Had a:
1973 220 (gas)
1980 300SD
1992 400E

I fully agree that RWD is the way to get 275hp to the ground. What I have to conclude is that it's not necessarily the best way to get 50hp to the ground in a turn on a slick surface.

The Chrysler 3.3 isn't exactly a gutless Honda A15. It will spin the outside tire like mad in a tight u-turn, but it won't slip on those trolley rails.

I'm fully aware of FWD packaging. I've had to replace the rear plugs in the Caravan and I have the scars to show for it. I'd still rather do that than futz with an MB prop shaft carrier bearing.

John, was you that said that Nader should campaign against FWD car being the end all be all of safety?

Sixto
95 S420
87 300SDL
83 300SD

... I wonder how many Honda fans I've pi$$ed off

FWD cars have their own set of service problems. Half shafts have joints on the end that have to provide for suspension movement, wheel turning AND power delivery. They tend to wear faster than RWD components.

FWD transmissions can be difficult to access and very expensive to service with integrated diff units.

However, manufacturing is a simple drop in process. Floors can be flat and interior space maximized. For low-mid skilled drivers, FWD can provide reassuring understeer and low speed traction in snowy conditions.

I think FWD has it's place. We're thinking about replacing our old 626 "Mall Car" and we'll buy a newer Protege or something like it. They're good cars, handle reasonably well, and drive pretty good for an econo box.

However, my personal preference is RWD. Good tires negate the traction difference by a high degree. With it's snow tires on, I can keep the C230 with the Outback on a snow covered road. It's just a different driving experience. My wife finds the tail-out attitude unsettling, as do many people. She liked her E300 as it had ESP which reassured her in the same way the AWD on the Subie does.

Why would anyone make a RWD Mini-Van? Mazda tried, and it flopped miserably. No RWD Mini-Van has been a good seller. People don't want it. They wnat understeer. They want cheap packaging and a lower sticker. They want flat floors. Give it to them.

Kudos to Porsche, BMW, Lexus, Infinity and Mercedes for making cars for me.

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John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif

I drive, on a regular basis, a 1991 420SEL and a 1999 Seville SLS. The Seville is FWD and the Northstar engine puts out 275 hp. The Northstar engine is very torquey. The Seville has Stabilitrak and traction control. Torque steer has never been a problem, even when I floor it.

In the rain the Seville feels very sure footed. In other kinds of driving the 420SEL feels more secure EXCEPT when I push it and I am about to lose control. In that case the Stabilitrak in the Seville kicks in and the car is restored to the straight and narrow.

I have, however, driven older Caddies with FWD and they drove like a POS. The newer Caddies are better products and are more sure footed.

I have no experience with Japanese FWD cars.

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Current Benzes

1989 300TE "Alice"
1990 300CE "Sam Spade"
1991 300CE "Beowulf" RIP (06.1991 - 10.10.2007)
1998 E320 "Orson"
2002 C320 Wagon "Molly Fox"

Res non semper sunt quae esse videntur

My Gallery

Not in this weather!

I like RWD easy to work on handel better for my driving style, and just seem to be more funt to drive.
We have a few front wheel drive cars in the driveway and I do not enjoy one of them.
The best thing with rear wheel drive its a sharp U turn you can always make it with a little more gas
I've heard that FWD is good in snow because of the wieght but I don't know how true it is living in Florida

because the front wheels use constant-velocity (CV) joints in a FWD car, their max steering angle is invariably limited by the max angle of the CV joints. All other things being equal, the turning circle of a RWD car is typically smaller than that of a similar FWD car. And on a slippery surface, you can provide additional rotation on a RWD car with induced oversteer.

one advantage of a FWD car is that when the car oversteers, you can catch it by applying opposite lock and power, BUT this has to be learned and ingrained into one's reflexes, since the default response of most drivers is to lift off the gas, which adds to the oversteering condition in a FWD car.

in a RWD car, the front tires' tread blocks get "feathered" due to braking. In a FWD car, the feathering is less on the front tires, since the driving torque offsets this somewhat.

in a high-performance RWD car, wider rear tires look natural. Wider front tires on a FWD car look awkward.

tuning the suspension of a RWD car is trickier than that of a FWD car. On a RWD car, you want the front wheels to have relatively less roll resistance than the rears (e.g. thinner front sway bar and/or thicker rear sway bar) to reduce understeer. But the rears will now have a greater tendency for power-on oversteer.

and ... you cannot perform "drifting" in a FWD car (unless you drive it in reverse!) ... this latest trend might just create a demand for new RWD cars ...

RWD lets you do awsome burn outs! FWD it just isn't as cool. But 4wd with a lot of power does the best burn outs. You can't have any fun with a FWD car.