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  #46  
Old 06-10-2003, 03:31 PM
Amore California
 
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560 SEC AMG Hammer ...

Here is a link to a SEC ... http://www.jack-o-trades.com/hammer.htm

This webpage also shows a showcar SEL Hammer ... built for one of the AMG owners.

Interesting.

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  #47  
Old 06-11-2003, 10:13 AM
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Its probably the Philosphy Class...

that I am taking that allows me to be more objective. For instance, we are discussing the Traditionalist VS Nontraditionalist thinkers of the 5th century Greece. Traditionalist - Do not like change. They are very protective of the status quo and their criteria for truth is:Authority. Authority in this case in the knowledge that AMG alone made "the" vehicle known as the HAMMER.
On the otherhand Non traditionalist- beleive in CHANGE.
They are more open minded and their criteria for truth is rooted in REASON. As such, one has to use one's high reasoning and comprehisive skills to believe something that is against all that he has been taught. In this case, its should be accepted(albeit with a grain of salt) there there does exist the possibility that a car in this case the 560SEL, made by MB was coined the Hammer by R/T BEFORE the car that was created by AMG. And it is therefore also reasonable to assume that AMG took advantage of the name and the marketing/ publicity etc. that already existed and coined their car the HAMMER.......named in honor, if you will, of its MB brothering. Turns out that in a lot of ways the thinking of the 5th century Greeks isn't much different than that of 21 Century Internet citizens
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  #48  
Old 06-11-2003, 10:40 AM
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LMAO

Chris I stand corrected. Although the reference that Norm has provided displays a 560SEC which has been modified by AMG rather than a stock MB. When you do get a responce from Road and Track please share it with us so we can put this to rest.

Now folks, we need to get back to the topic posted.
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  #49  
Old 06-11-2003, 12:02 PM
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Obviously, the Hammer is not exactly your mass-produced Merc. It's a selectively equipped 300E impeccably turned out by AMG, the German tuning firm specializing in those other cars from Stuttgart. For those of you who don't know, AMG is to Mercedes what Alpina is to BMW, Ruf to Porsche, Treser to Audi. The firm was founded in 1967 by Hans-Werner Aufrecht and Erhard Melcher, two former Daimler-Benz engineers, and its name comes from the initials of their last names and of Grossapach, Aufrecht's birthplace. AMG supplies a full line of show-and-go components to followers of the 3-pointed star who seek to enhance the appearance, handling and performance of their Mercs. It also sells complete cars including an extensively modified 300E known as the Hammer, its most outrageous model.
AMG HAMMER A Mercedes 4-door that runs like a Ferrari Testarossa?Road & Track, August, 1987

I was tingling with anticipatory thrill when we broke out of the city traffic in a car with a claimed top speed of over 180mph and standing kilometer time of 23sec, which puts it right next to the Ferrari GTO in performance. It was an AMG-Mercedes-Benz W124 series sedan with a very modified 5.6liter V8, modified front and rear spoilers and side skirts. My AMG loaner was almost identical to the AMG-MB "Hammer" which caused a stir at the last Frankfurt auto show with a claimed top speed of 187mph, and which soon will be available in the US, its powers only slightly diminished by compliance with US regulations.
The difference between my car and "der Hammer" was aerodynamic ducting behind the radiator grille and underbody enclosure that lowered drag 0.04 from the shape which is already an astoundingly clean Cd of .29 in its narrowest-tired version. My car's powertrain was the same as the Hammer's, with AMG quad-valve heads, special cams, pistons, valves and other new innards for a power increase to 360bhp over the 300bhp of the factory two-valve 5.6 V8.
Hammerin' Down the Road: The road's the autobahn, the Hammer's the ultimate AMG Benz 300 and the speed's whatever you want it to be, by David Barry AutoWeek, June 23, 1986

When AMG built the Hammer, word spread like wildfire.
Car and Driver - "The Hammer covers ground so quickly that you swear you can feel the earth's curvature racing to meet you. Yet...this AMG-modified sedan keeps you completely at ease as you pierce the atmosphere like a horizontal bolt of lightning. All that's lacking is the stench of scorched sulphur from the shocked aftermath of your receding thunder...For all its power, the Hammer applies its blows superbly...The chassis absorbs the road's upsets with none of its own...The driver's job is to hew to the one true line and to look way ahead, because that's where the car will be in a flash..."
Road & Track Exotic Cars - "In corners, the car tracks tightly and clings to the line effectively, giving the driver a great feeling of confidence...As good as the handling is, what makes the Hammer something that will remind you of the old folk song about John Henry is the 6.0-liter V-8 engine...This is a car that moves off from rest with a smoothness that's hard to believe. And it just keeps accelerating, on and on..."
Auto Gallery - "The Hammer is a marvellous amalgam of traditional Mercedes-Benz values and jaw-clenching performance...Its urban road manners are impeccable...At the limit, almost 100 yards of road are covered every second, and the meaning of tunnel vision becomes all too obvious...Caveats aside, the Hammer is beautifully designed to provide the skilled driver with an experience virtually unequalled by any production car..."
Stuffed with AMG's most powerful and free-revving engine and its most sophisticated chassis tuning, the Hammer becomes a Supercar in the truest sense. The wildest, highest-performance exotic cars cannot compare. When it comes to putting the road in its place, they cannot touch the AMG Hammer because it makes speed without strain and makes time without stress. Remarkable though they may be, they are no more than nails for the Hammer when it comes to pounding the landscape flat.
No other practical four-passenger car can provide you the AMG Hammer's unprecedented performance. Its abilities go beyond wishes into what most can only consider dreams: 0 to 60 in 5.0 seconds; the quarter-mile in 13.5 seconds at 107 mph; the fastest 30-to-50 and 50-to-70 times ever recorded by Car and Driver; and a top speed of 186 mph.
The Hammer begins with a U.S. specification Mercedes 300E, stripped of all powertrain and running gear. The six-cylinder engine gives way to the 5.6-liter V-8 built for the larger 560s. Disassembled, ported, polished, balanced, and blueprinted - and optionally bored out to 6.0 liters - and fitted with the amazing 32-valve secret to its success: AMG-designed double overhead camshafts and four-valve-per-cylinder heads. Dual German high-performance catalytic convertors promote free exhaust flow. To handle the resulting 360 horsepower and 377 pound-feet of torque (375 horsepower and 407 pound-feet of torque for the 6.0 liter version), AMG revalves the four-speed automatic from the large Mercedes S-Class machines.
AMG replaces the rear subframe with a beefier one and fits the biggest M-B differential. A Gleason-Torsen (Torque Sensing) unit replaces the original M-B carrier, sensing which wheel can safely handle power under adverse conditions that may cause a lesser car to spin its wheels or itself.
A special AMG suspension employs shorter springs, firmer shock absorbers, 8.0-by-17-inch alloy wheels, and Pirelli P700 tires: 215/45VR-17 front, 235/45VR-17 rear. Keeping frontal area slim and low cuts wind resistance to a minimal 0.25 Cd with a front air dam and side skirts, and a ducktail blended into the deck. AMG's chassis and brake tuning dovetail with the engine and aerodynamics. The Hammer grips the road tenaciously, producing 0.85-g roadholding and stops from 70 mph in a breathtaking 165 feet.
The AMG Hammer, despite its singular ability to pace the sun racing the horizon, is also alone in its ability to bear you and yours in imperturbable luxury and safety at such a resounding rate. The Hammer is tomorrow's supreme traveling tool, yet it already makes the quickest possible work of every challenge on the way today.
The World's Fastest Sedan: AMG Advertising Brochure
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  #50  
Old 06-13-2003, 12:21 AM
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trying convincingly with foreign opinion...

Quote:
Originally posted by Chriss
I am ready to accept proof of my undoubted fallability but as yet I have not had anyone try convincingly. I have even tried to explain where I think there is a confusing of source material as in the case of the AMG 'Hammer' but I do not see any acceptance in a foreign opinion.
Glad I stumbled upon this post.

I quickly dug through my own archives to find a fine British publication "Fast Lane" courtesy of Reed Business Publishing Ltd., August 1989 edition, cover price 1 pound 80. Cover story "World's Fastest Saloons," cover photo of one lovely black W124 coupe AMG Hammer and an Alpina B12.

Article on page 50 is titled "Civil War" and I quote:

"When five LITRES of Alpina BMW takes on six litres of AMG "Hammer" Mercedes, the result is bound to be exciting. Lance Redhead investigates the ultimate super saloons, and finds a svelte executive jet in conflict with a full-blooded fighter"
(guess which the fighter would be)

I will quote from within the article:
"AMG's most potent Mercedes is a hot-rod called "The Hammer."
It's based on the mid-range 124 saloon, coupe or even the estate, but with the original four or six cylinder engine exchanged for a thumpingquad-cam V8. There's a choice of 5.0, 5.6 or 6.0 litre versions to suit your own particular fancy, all coupled with a modified S-Class transmission."

I'd be happy to try and scan it next week or to copy and fax to another technically astute poster (Dean?)
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  #51  
Old 06-13-2003, 01:00 PM
Chriss
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1989 eh?

I think you will find that the article in Road and Track predated this by two or three years.
Look dick head I have never said that the W124 based 'Hammer' was not called 'The Hammer' I just pointed out where the name originated. It is not uncommon for European magazines to test 'foreign models' either we regularly have reports from Japanes, US, German, Italian journalists etc. I know American magazinee do as well , did you know that? Now I am actually quite fed up with responding to a stream or ignorant, brainless narrow minded losers so good bye on this topic from me.
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  #52  
Old 06-13-2003, 02:55 PM
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Dick Head?

Boy, you are an arrogant prick. Up 'til now I've been following for entertainment value. Hammer Wagon comes in and gives us some decent information that has documented proof (which you have still failed to do) as a polite contribution to the thread. I read nothing in his post that assaulted your character, knowledge or person yet you felt it necessary to call him names and blow up like some 14 year old child. I was kinda on your side before now (overlooking the Plonker comment) as it makes sense that Europe would get a European hot rod faster than America would. Unfortunately, you've proven that the English culture is still as arrogant as ever.

Good riddance.
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  #53  
Old 06-13-2003, 05:57 PM
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Hammers and stones...

can break your bones...

Thanks deuce for the kind defense, I personally didn't feel the need to dignify a crass insult with a response.

There is another school of thought I have seen elsewhere, perhaps even on this site, that the term Hammer was originally used to describe the AMG modified 5.6 or 6.0 M117 engine with the 32V head and not any specific "car."

It would then make sense that the term affectionately stuck to the W124 M117 when first unleashed by AMG in 1986, since it was so much more of an stretch to shoehorn it (and the 560 diff and trans) into the 124, and the result in the lighter chassis was so much more dynamic.

The following is taken from RennTech's website:

"THE HISTORY OF RENNTech
RENNTech, Inc. is owned and managed by Hartmut Feyhl - widely recognized as the nation's foremost expert on Mercedes-Benz high performance. Born in Affalterbach, Germany, he spent twelve years at AMG Germany before being appointed Technical Director of AMG North America. During his time at AMG, he was instrumental in the development of the famous four valve "Hammer" engine, and also AMG's four cylinder racing engines. In 1989, he left AMG to form RENNTech, a high-performance tuner of Mercedes-Benz vehicles."

Moving the cart back in front of the horse is the following list of AMG technical milestones from the AMG owners club website:

http://www.amg-owners-club.org/info/history.htm

"The most important technical milestones in the history of AMG:
1971: The Mercedes-Benz 300 SEL 6.3 AMG developing 206 kW/280 hp and 542 Nm of torque, and boasting an optimised chassis and more powerful baking system.
The mid-to-late 1970s: uprated AMG engines, modifications to the chassis and brakes, AMG light-alloy wheels and wide-base tyres sharpen the edge of numerous Mercedes-Benz cars.
1982: In-car video for the Mercedes-Benz S-Class.
1983: The Mercedes-Benz 280 CE 5.0 AMG with eight-cylinder engine developing 203 kW/276 hp and 408 Nm torque.
1984: The Mercedes-Benz 500 SEC AMG with eight-cylinder engine featuring newly developed four-valve technology, output of 250 kW/340 hp and a top speed of 260 km/h.
1984: The Mercedes-Benz 300 E 5.0 AMG with eight-cylinder engine featuring newly developed four-valve technology, output of 250 kW/340 hp and a top speed of 280km/h.
1985: New metal catalytic converter for unrivalled emissions control.
1986: The Mercedes-Benz 300 E 5.6 AMG with eight-cylinder engine boasting 5.6-l displacement, four-valve technology, 265 kW/360 hp, 510 Nm torque and a top speed of 300 km/h. The first time that sports-car performance had been combined with the day-to-day qualities of a Mercedes. American fans christen the powerful AMG model “The hammer”.
1987: The Mercedes-Benz 300 E AMG and 190 E AMG with 3.2-l six-cylinder engine and 180 kW/245 hp.
1988: The Mercedes-Benz 300 E 6.0 AMG, eight-cylinder engine with 6-l displacement, four-valve technology, 283 kW/385 hp and 566 Nm torque.
1989: The Mercedes-Benz 190 E 2.5-16 Evolution AMG, four-cylinder engine with 165 kW/225 hp and 240 Nm torque.
1990: The Mercedes-Benz 300 E-24 3.4 AMG, six-cylinder engine with 200 kW/272 hp and 335 Nm torque.
1993: The Mercedes-Benz C 36 AMG with six-cylinder engine, 206 kW/280 hp and 385 Nm torque. The first vehicle jointly produced under the cooperation agreement between Daimler-Benz and AMG. "

Only an AMG historian can say for sure, something I'm certainly not. Well documented is that AMG offered a smorgasbord of tasty special order tuning options, including the "Hammer" engine long before the 124 chassis was developed.

Chriss, if you are ever in the USA, you are welcome to stop by and drive the Hammer Wagon- you'll find it to be a wonderfully therapeutic form of anger management.
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  #54  
Old 06-17-2003, 07:22 PM
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Wow...

Well...that was a bit of a firestorm...thank you all for your comments and posts, this is an issue that may never be satisfactorily resolved (which came first the chicken or the egg), I don't really know that it actually matters, what does matter is that there is a car that was built by AMG in the late 80's known as the HAMMER, it became a legend in it's own time and will probably become highly collectible in the future . Just as a side note, does anybody think that a car like the Hammer could become highly collectable in the future (a' la 55 -57 gullwing?).

Cheers - Anthony
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  #55  
Old 06-18-2003, 07:02 PM
daviddonalson
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Re: Wow...

Quote:
Originally posted by the benz
Well...that was a bit of a firestorm...thank you all for your comments and posts, this is an issue that may never be satisfactorily resolved (which came first the chicken or the egg), I don't really know that it actually matters, what does matter is that there is a car that was built by AMG in the late 80's known as the HAMMER, it became a legend in it's own time and will probably become highly collectible in the future . Just as a side note, does anybody think that a car like the Hammer could become highly collectable in the future (a' la 55 -57 gullwing?).

Cheers - Anthony
They already are, why do you think I want one so bad? (a real W124 Hammer that is)
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  #56  
Old 06-23-2003, 05:19 PM
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IMHO

The AMG Hammer is a specific car with a specific engine configuration: a W124 300E equipped with a modified M117 - increased displacement to 6.0 Litres and most importantly the addition of AMG twincam heads - and all associated drivetrain and suspension upgrades.

I have seen various cars referred to as "Hammer"s. these include a W124 coupe that is equipped (allegedly) with a 6.0L 32 valve V-8 from AMG, a 400E with AMG aerodynamics and some electronic upgrades, a 300E with JUST to body kit on it.

It seems that there are varying opinions to what a "Hammer" truly is. Sort of like how some people feel that a set of Monoblocks means that their car is suddenly an AMG.

In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really matter, but if the issue becomes much more contentious, I suggest that someone email AMG in Germany and ask for their official position. after all, aren't THEY the one's that gave the car the name?

As far as how the label applies to a 560SEL...I haven't seen/read the article in question, but is it not possible that a writer could have called it "a hammer" as opposed to "a Hammer" (note the capitalization) and we're just bickering over the (mis)use of a common/proper noun vs. an adjective?

I agree that the 560SEL was indeed a hammer of a car in its day, however, i probably would not call it a Hammer. I don't even call a lowered, chipped 400E with full AMG aerodynamic aids on it a Hammer.

But, as the French say: Chacun son gout.
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'93 W124.036 481/040 leder; euro delivery; 8.25x17 EvoIIs
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Last edited by yhliem; 06-23-2003 at 05:35 PM.
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  #57  
Old 06-23-2003, 05:46 PM
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This seems to be a very heated and controversial thread.

I was at AMG two weeks ago in Affalterbach, Germany. I went there to talk to them about the AMG Hammer, and learn more about their start before the aquisition in 1995, but there are only three mechanics still there that know the car, and everyone else is new. I talked to a salesman about the car, but he just told me everything that I already knew.

He told me that the only "Hammer" is the W126 Coupe with the M117 6.0L DOHC and the W124 Coupe M117 6.0L DOHC, and he said it refers to the engine: 6.0L DOHC M117.

From all the magazines I have read in the late 1980s, they featured a car: 1987 Mercedes Benz 300E AMG HAMMER 6.0L DOHC M117 Engine, which broke the 300 km/h mark, which was about 187 MPH tested by Road and Track. I have about 30 different magazines with the AMG HAMMER in it, and they all state about the same thing, not much variation in the numbers and facts.

AMG seems to lack knowing their old history. If you look at their 30 year video, there is a huge jump in the 1980s, they just put a picture of a 300CE wide body, but what really got them where they are today was the 300E AMG HAMMER sedan because it was the fastest sedan in the world which could outrun the ferrari testarossa. The 300E AMG HAMMER was the car that started the fastest sedan revolution we are still in, with the AMG sedans since 1995, Audi S4, BMW M5, etc, and now with the new E55 Supercharged engine out, they are now where they are today because of everything they did in the past, that they have forgotten about.

All these facts that I have presented you are from magazines or AMG literature that I have.
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  #58  
Old 06-23-2003, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by omegabenz
This seems to be a very heated and controversial thread.

I was at AMG two weeks ago in Affalterbach, Germany. I went there to talk to them about the AMG Hammer, and learn more about their start before the aquisition in 1995, but there are only three mechanics still there that know the car, and everyone else is new. I talked to a salesman about the car, but he just told me everything that I already knew.

He told me that the only "Hammer" is the W126 Coupe with the M117 6.0L DOHC and the W124 Coupe M117 6.0L DOHC, and he said it refers to the engine: 6.0L DOHC M117.

From all the magazines I have read in the late 1980s, they featured a car: 1987 Mercedes Benz 300E AMG HAMMER 6.0L DOHC M117 Engine, which broke the 300 km/h mark, which was about 187 MPH tested by Road and Track. I have about 30 different magazines with the AMG HAMMER in it, and they all state about the same thing, not much variation in the numbers and facts.

AMG seems to lack knowing their old history. If you look at their 30 year video, there is a huge jump in the 1980s, they just put a picture of a 300CE wide body, but what really got them where they are today was the 300E AMG HAMMER sedan because it was the fastest sedan in the world which could outrun the ferrari testarossa. The 300E AMG HAMMER was the car that started the fastest sedan revolution we are still in, with the AMG sedans since 1995, Audi S4, BMW M5, etc, and now with the new E55 Supercharged engine out, they are now where they are today because of everything they did in the past, that they have forgotten about.

All these facts that I have presented you are from magazines or AMG literature that I have.
it actually surprises me how the techs at AMG don't know their own company's history. I would havethought that working for a company like that, one would WANT to know the history.

the only thing I would probably debate would be the comment about the Hammer starting the super sedan revolution. I would have to say that the title of first production super sedan rightfully belongs to the 300SEL 6.3.
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'94 W124.036 249/040 leder; 8.25x17 EvoIIs
'93 W124.036 199/040 leder; 8.25x17 EvoIIs, up in flames...LITERALLY!
'93 W124.036 481/040 leder; euro delivery; 8.25x17 EvoIIs
'88 R107.048 441/409 leder; Euro lights
'87 W201.034 199/040 leder; Euro lights; EvoII brakes; 8x16 EvoIs - soon: 500E rear brakes
'70 R113.044 050/526; factory alloys; Euro lights
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  #59  
Old 07-07-2003, 07:10 AM
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WOW!

What a heated discussion!

Well I'm from England and I don't have that arrogant attitude (we're not all like that I promise).

I've read a load of literature on AMG and Mercedes (I'm not saying I've read it all). The only 'Hammer' I've come across is the W124. I'd love to see a W126 Hammer, that would be awesome.
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  #60  
Old 07-14-2003, 11:29 PM
roas
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Read here for some more detailed info on this matter...

http://www.amg-owners-club.org/board/en/wbb2/thread.php?threadid=846&sid=&hilight=e60&hilightuser=0

..., I believe this gentelman works closely with AMG.

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