Hmph. The (Lack of) Quality of The Digital FSM Is Disappointing

[Shawn D.]

Well, I finally broke out my "Model 123 Service Manual Library" (Version 2.0, P/N P-2700-123-098) from MB to do some electrical system diagnosing and am disappointed by the low quality of the scans. A noticeable portion of the text is difficult to read, the contrast is poor, page edges are cut off, many pictures are nearly worthless, and some of the wiring diagrams are downright illegible (see <CD Drive>:\program\Climate\83-600a.pdf, especially pages 10 & 11 for a particularly egregious case). The navigation scheme isn't too hot either, but I've at least been able to find certain things by searching files individually (I'm still looking for the HVAC component location list on page 301, though). I suppose it's better than nothing, but MB should be ashamed of the poor quality.

[justinperkins]

I wish it was searchable. I wouldn't even use the worthless Flash-based interface if I could just search those PDF's reliably.

[TX76513]

If it makes anyone feel better BMW's is worse

[Shawn D.]

Originally Posted by TX76513

If it makes anyone feel better BMW's is worse

Are you talking about the ETK? That's a parts manual, not a shop manual. I find it pretty easy to navigate. You can find an online version here.

[TX76513]

I can't recall what it's called but not ETK. It works through a series of symptoms and problems and it's cumbersome to use when you just want to know what the torque specs are for a certain thing.

[Jeremy5848]

They should have added another couple of bits to the scan. I suppose that would have doubled all of the file sizes -- as usual, the decision was made by some faceless beancounter.

Wading through all of the menus to get where you want is a pain, too. The W124 version at least allows you to skip the opening "video" but the W123 makes you watch it every time, a waste.

Speaking of the 123 climate control system, does anyone have a schematic of the connections to the Klima relay (part 001 545 74 05) that controls the a/c compressor on the 1985 300D? It appears to be unique to this model year and I can't find it on any of the wiring diagrams.

I also have a paper copy of the "Service Manual/Heating, Air Conditioning/Automatic Climate Control/Model 123" (copyright dated 1988), and it doesn't mention that relay.

A PO replaced the Klima relay with a jury-rig and I'd like to put the system back to stock but don't know how to wire the socket.

Jeremy

[winmutt]

I have the FSM and its decent. I noticed different PDF browsers will handle font/pics better and worse than others. KPDF gives the cleanest render for me fight now under linux.

It works fine for me. I have the CD manuals and the books, the picture quality in both is acceptable to me.

[Shorebilly]

MBUSA sells the "123 Service Manual Library" for $19.95......it would be great if it was updated to a newer version of "Adobe", and was searchable.....

Folks, the original printed manuals are on "metric" sized paper, things would be way better if the USA went to the metric system......I used to have these same problems on the German built ships, when making a copy of an instruction manual.......

Also, most German Tech Manuals have a preface that explains that the manual is written for those with some technical education.....i.e. MB Service Technicians......

There is a wealth of information in the 123 Service Manual Library, but most folks here don't bother to read the text, just ***** about the lousy pictures....

SB

[Shorebilly]

Originally Posted by Jeremy5848

Speaking of the 123 climate control system, does anyone have a schematic of the connections to the Klima relay (part 001 545 74 05) that controls the a/c compressor on the 1985 300D? It appears to be unique to this model year and I can't find it on any of the wiring diagrams.

I also have a paper copy of the "Service Manual/Heating, Air Conditioning/Automatic Climate Control/Model 123" (copyright dated 1988), and it doesn't mention that relay.

A PO replaced the Klima relay with a jury-rig and I'd like to put the system back to stock but don't know how to wire the socket.

Jeremy

I have the same book (as well as the CD)..."Service Manual Heating, Air Conditioning Automatic Climate Control Model 123, printed 1988.....the Klima Relay is mentioned in various schematics....and there is plenty of info to rewire that socket.....if you can read German Schematics......see page 83.6-605/4....item 13....Relay, Air Conditioning System.....the pin numbers are clearly marked and referenced......

See my post above.....and read the "Introduction".....third paragraph, ....."procedures outlined herein are intended for use by trained Mercedes-Benz service and dealership personnel"......the bold print is part of the quote......

Don't knock the books......I went to school and got my degree.....and still had to learn the German way of doing things.....AEG has a nice publication on reading German schematics.....

SB

[Bill Ladd]

I love my digital FSM for my 126 chassis 300SD. Never have I had a problem finding an answer to a question in it, nor tracing/diagnosing/finding a repair for any issues on my car.

I often use the zoom feature on my Adobe reader to expose detail in the drawings and schematics. I find the illustrations and schematics to be very clear and detailed.

Bill

[arew264]

I kinda like it - the pictures are crap, but it was useful to me when I had to check the resistance of a thermocouple / diagnose climate control issues.

The one problem I had is that I have to bypass the page with the adobe acrobat reader check and I can't use firefox ().

Of course then again, I design websites in my spare time so I'm familiar with this sort of thing and I can do that (even bypassed that 123 video at the start).

[Shawn D.]

Originally Posted by Shorebilly

... the manual is written for those with some technical education...

...most folks here don't bother to read the text, just ***** about the lousy pictures...

I do have a technical education and I ain't lookin' for a coffee-table book of pretty pictures!

If poor-quality text were the only issue, I could get by that -- I can read the distorted text, annoying as it is. The problem is that the technical info I need is essentially not there due to the poor quality.

Did you even bother to look at the file I'm particularly concerned with before dismissing my post as "*****ing"? See <whatever drive your CD is>:\program\Climate\83-600a.pdf, especially the wiring diagrams on pages 10 & 11. The diagrams there are useless -- USELESS!

Originally Posted by Lux

I love my digital FSM for my 126 chassis 300SD. Never have I had a problem finding an answer to a question in it, nor tracing/diagnosing/finding a repair for any issues on my car.

I often use the zoom feature on my Adobe reader to expose detail in the drawings and schematics. I find the illustrations and schematics to be very clear and detailed.

Sure, I know about zooming in on detail, but zooming in on nothing only gives you a larger view of nothing! Evidently, they did a much better job on the 126 version.

EDIT: I've attached a screenshot -- now tell me that isn't crap!

[JamesDean]

this might help with navigation around the manuals


http://web.mac.com/dakota/iWeb/Mercedes/Indexes.html

[pawoSD]

Yeah the 126 version looks quite a bit better. I guess they like the "S-Klasse" owners more.