My Last Benz
 

Will I have owned a 1983 300D, 268,000mi (a tank of a car)Sold , Then a 1987 300D,230,000mi, Totaled in an accident. And the last a 1996 E320,122,000mi, just sold today. I have never been so happy to get rid of a car. I have owned 12 or so cars and trucks. Chevy ,Dodge, International. I have never had the heads off of any of them untill the 1996 E320. My current 1978 Chevy truck has 300,000mi now. Many other E320 problems like the front sway bar that rips its self out of the bottom of the frame( I have photos). The wiring harness, mine was replaced just before I bought it. What has happened to the Mercedes , Or is it just the one that I owned??????????? I think I will be looking at Lexus. Good Luck to All! Norm in FL

I think it was just bad karma.

The 210's, while styling is controversial to some, have pure Benz mechanicals underneath.

If you really are afraid of these cars(for simplicity's sake), then go buy another 124, like your '87 300D. Or, even better; upgrade to an S-Class Benz with a 300SDL.

Just because its old, doesn't mean its ancient.

Good luck Norm with future automotive purchases!

Having a soft spot for Japanese cars, I think buying a Lexus will prove to be very rewarding.

Also a quick question, if you car is a 1996 E320, then it would have the V6 3.2L (4 round headlights \ W210) - is that the model that you owned that gave the heartache?

Interestingly I read a Consumer Reports last night that reported for 100 Brand New Vehicles, Mercedes scored the second lowest score! Cadillac came last and Acura was first....eye opener!

Uh-oh looks like Chrysler cancer is getting into the veins....just kiddin'

Yasin

<<if you car is a 1996 E320, then it would have the V6 3.2L >>

210 chassis did not go to v6 until 1998 model year...
96/97 used 104- IL6 engine....

Ughh, please don't say the C word. Mercedes has been heading downhill ever since that moron(see sig) took over the helm of the former Daimler-Benz.

The M104's do have their issues. Quite a lot actually. Wiring harnesses, air-mass sensors, spark plug wires, leaking head gaskets, blah blah blah.:o

Chrysler merged with MB in 1998, and yes my car had the M104 L6 engine I know it well! The V6 came in 1998. Bad karma ? Have you owned a W210 E320?? As for a 123 0r 124 Benz, you tell my wife we are going backwords in years, it is her car!!! Norm in FL

Norm - Good luck with your Lexus purchase. They're good cars.

I think the problem with your MB experience is that you were going in the wrong direction. As you got newer cars, you also got into technology that isn't inexpensively repaired (and wasn't that reliable either). The older cars didn't carry this baggage.

There's a whole raft of people on this forum that firmly believe that MB quit making really good cars quite a few years ago. I'm one of them. I'm a happy MB owner (and Toyota owner too).

just my $.02,
Wes

Well, in my experience, MB customer service sucks, both at the dealer level and at the corporate level.:mad:

However, I find that even as much as I like the new Infiniti FX35, I find that I cannot bring myself to give up my 124.

Thank God I am able to work on it myself. It has been years and years since a "real" mechanic touched my 300E or my wife's.

Sorry to see you go Norm and I'm sure the Lexus will be a fine car. I can't say personally because I have never ridden in one but I do have a friend that rode in one one time and he said they are real nice cars:).

I'm with Wes - nothing newer than about 1991 for this diy'er type in the MB line. We have had a Honda in the family since '87 and have never had any problems with them. In addition, I am finding that maintaining the wifes 1997 Honda CRV has never been complicated.

Benz, BMW, and Volvo have all produced expensive junk for the last ten years, shades of American "disposable" cars.

There are rumors that Benz in particular is backing off from the stupid notion they need to be "first" with all the techno crap -- they installed numerous fancy computer systems on the 210 and later models without doing their normal reliability work (after all, electronics are somewhat less reilable in 1972 than they are today, by and large, and the D-Jet computers usually run forever....). The result was exessive failure rate, and util design changes have been made in the parts (unlikely), the replacements will fail just as fast.

The top management at Benz (and all the other European makes for that matter) seem to be of the school that drools and throws money every time someone says "computer". there is no need for digital computer controlled lighting, climate control, or probably even engine control on an automobile -- "dumb" servos work just fine, for example the W124 chassis climate control. Not too expensive, simple in operation, and very reilable. the W140/C class ACC blows the computer regularly, cost $2500 to replace (no repairs) and does absolutely nothing more than the earlier ones.

It's all about that magical new world where you only have to dream to make it happen, unlike the real world where the blasted stuff has to actually function so you can get to work!

It will pass. Gas is gonna be a LOT more expensive in the coming years, so the super performance disposable car will vanish in favor of low fuel consumption, long lived ones.

Peter

I must be totally bored to get into one of these trolling posts.

Since I'm about at retirement I have to just laugh at all you poor suckers. If you happened into the 21st century in a Benz then a Benz is what you blame. If you happen across the 21st century in a Lexus, it will get your rath. I just work on them and I go where the money is. We work on MBs 10 to 1 over Lexus (we worked on MBs for 15 years before there were Lexus) but the whiners really accumulate in a 80k+ LS400s. Try DIYing a starter in that pig. I'll wager not a DIYer in the group could accomplish it in a week. Only partly due to the difficulty. The rest will be because of the tons of plastic that will have to be removed (and broken and ordered) to get that intake manifold out of the way. Ya think a nippondenso compressor costs in an MB wait till Lexus gets their hands on you. Big talk, look up the facts for yourself, the grass is always greener, especially if the world changed while you weren't paying attention.

Lexus PS systems have to be the most defect prone of any vehicle short of Ford. Liquid crystal displays over a grand. Happy Lexus owners never are out of warrantee and that is probably the way MB owners will wind up. There are no more 124/126 cars beeing built by ANYONE! Digital control ain't going away. So ya better keep good care of those stone age cars.

Since repair of late model cars is not economical even when done by an efficient independent and because its not possible at all DIY (except for a few masters) the era of the disposable car is upon us. Thankfully my property is worth more in rent than I pay myself, as the day of the competent independent technician is waning. Going the way of the TV repairman.

Sadly this is true, soon the bonnet will be opened only via an access code known only to franchised workshops and men in white coats will "fix" the problem with a 100 grand laser guided probe as you the owner watch whale movies in the courtesy lounge with 3-D googles as ambient music plays...or something like that! :D

Mike.

Steve:

It's not just cars, either!

One of the serious problems in Iraq appears to be that the equipment isn't "modern" (that is, completely digital) and no one knows (at least the Halliburton people, anyway) how to make it work without just replacing a non-working part. Needless to say, with the grid in terrible shape, equipment gets used improperly and abused, and there isn't enough to just replace everything.

I'm not personally convinced the "disposable" system will be with us forever -- it's VERY expensive, very wastefull, and oil is never gonna be cheap again!

I've also heard horror stories about parts for Japanese cars when the do wear out. When I replaced the center bearing on the driveshaft on the 220D some time back, it cost me $30. The one for a Toyota was $175, and was probably almost identical. The only reason Benz owners complain is that they keep their cars (or at least the folks on this forum, anyway) much longer than "ordinary" drivers, so they actually wear out suspension links, valve trains, etc.

MB is considerably higher maintenance than a typical Japanese car -- a friend of mine quite literally never replaced the brake pads on his Avalon. It was totaled when someone ran a stop light and T-boned him at 125,000 miles! Brake pads still OK. I have no idea how well the brakes work compared to a Benz, but that is one reason people complain (pads at 30,000 miles, what a useless piece of junk!).

After all, I remember when valve jobs at 25,000 miles weren't uncommon, and engines only had a paper oil filter if you special ordered the external filter system....

Who remembers tuneups every 3000 miles?

Peter

No,..But we took an 124 E320 on a trip to Williamsburg and had a wiring short causing faulty codes to appear.

The initial diagnosis for this car was a bad air mass sensor. OK, the car nearly got my family KILLED when the engine started to cut in and out in DC traffic. Two days later(one day after we got it back with a $$$ bill and a smile), it did the same damn thing. The tech diagnosis was AGAIN an air mass sensor!

My father was unfamiliar with the M104 engine at the time(it was only 4 years old) disabled the plug connected to the sensor, and we drove it home that way. The experience ruined our vacation, and my mother certainly has never forgotten about it.

Dealer concluded that the battery had leaked acid on the wiring casing underneath the battery tray. The wiring harness and the battery both had to be replaced. WHY THE HECK WOULD MB USE A CLOTH-LIKE SUBSTANCE, BIODEGRADABLE, AND CERTAINLY SUSCEPTABLE TO A SMALL AMOUNT OF ACID LEAKAGE?

Just a poor design. Very poor.:mad:

Other than that crap I listed, the I6 is a tough contender.

I've got a '97 E420, though. No broken swaybars after nearly 3 years of ownership.

I went to the junkyard on Sunday with a friend. He was looking for a part for his Jeep. We found a Jeep and the drivers door was hanging by its lower hinge. The top hinge weld was detached through either metal fatigue or rust or both. Talk about a crappy design.

cant hate mb.
 

I love my proud-to-be 'pre-1996' MB. I have all the luxury of a new mid/top end car (as in windows rolling up when the car is locked from outside or the driver's door not locking up if the key was not used to lock the car, *I am scared to death to lock the keys in the car, so I am fond of that feature*), reliablity, and low-cost in one little pink package. I just finished installing a stereo system into my friend's '66 Mustang, and I love my car even more (there should be no comparison engineering-wise, but I am just mad at all the wounds I recieved from the moron - so many metal parts sticking out with no use whatsoever, I nearly got killed just tucking away the wires under the carpet).
Is it me or did MB lose its famous reliabilty when it got to the states? Might an agreement made in 1995 allowing MB for US market to be assembled in either US or South America be the reason? Germans are famous for attention to details and making sure by hand that every bolt and nut is tight in their cars, might the US assembling factories be a bit less attentive, thus causing MB to start falling apart right from the conveyor? MHO - result of reading long and ugly descriptions from people who wanted to get reliability and got something scary.
Thinking about it now, I can't really believe that MBUSA factory would not be able to make sure the quality is the first (well, at least second) priority on its list.
site: http://www.mercedes-benz-usa.com

mb forever

Better try another 300D ;)

Sorry, but it was owner's fault. How does it feel to run Mercedes-Benz with crappy acid battery? Ever heard of Calcium? Try a sealed battery like a Bosch Silver, that makes less than $100.

Saw many people around who don't perform any sort of maintenance, use bad quality supplies(gas, oil, coolant, sparkplugs, battery etc) to save a few bucks and later cry with crocodile tears on how the car failed in the middle of a traffic jam at 100 F while running to a business meeting :D

If the car was actually built on the American continent, the carelessness for details (see above) is understandable (ever heard the story of the blonde girl with a Toyota?)

~Nautilus

Re: My Last Benz
 

I have owned MB"s constantly since 1968 but that will soon come to an end. I recently purchased a new MB which is now for sale. Hard to believe how cheap they are now building them. I recently purchased 2 Lexus' one for myself and the other for my wife. I can't believe that I am going to say this but there is no comparison bertween the newer MB's and the Lexus. I was once part of the crowd that said "give me good old German cars" and "Lexus is nothing more than a copy cat". From what I have experienced MB should be copying Lexus and stop living off of their reputation.

Its the owner's fault? A car that was serviced by Mercedes Benz since new?

Running a cloth wire housing underneath a battery ISN'T poor design? Did I miss something?

The battery was a Mercedes Benz battery. Not some foreign junk, I assure you.

Norm in FL
 

I have a 96 W210 E320 with 147,300 + miles on it.
This is my first MB after a BMW 5 series and a Lexus LS 400.
I Love this car. I have been lucky not to have the problems that you did. Maybe your car was a bad apple.

I was thinking about selling this car but I realized that there is nothing wrong with it. Mechanically it is sound. It's almost as good as when I bought it new and nothing out there is really worth me spending another $50K - $100K of my hard earned money. I do plan to drive it till it dies or until its not financially feasible. For every dollar I save driving this car, I will save it toward buying the new MB E320 CDI Diesel.

My BMW was a POS!
It had so many electrical problems, I had to sell it after only 25,000 miles. I bought it new and lost my a$$ on it.

My Lexus LS400 was a good car.
I did have a few problems with it at first but everything was taken care of by the service department through warranty. Even things that I was not aware of were replaced/repaired immediately. Only reason I got rid of it was because it was totalled in an accident.

Comparing my experiences with these 3 service departments, Lexus wins hands down. They are customer service oriented with the goal of making you happy. They always have a rental car available for free if you make an appointment in advance.
BMW and MB charged you if you wanted one.

Now my wife has a 98 Lexus ES300 and it is a smooth running car. It was bought new and has about 155,000 miles on it. It also runs very well.
I have logged every maintenance item for both cars and at the moment, the maintenance for the MB is about 2.5 times more than the Lexus. For people that are satisfied driving a dependable car (like my wife), its hard to justify spending more money on maintenance. If this is you, get the Lexus. It is a good dependable, trouble free car with an excellent service department.

Bottom line.
You really can't compare a MB to a Lexus but if you want reliability, dependability and low overall cost of maintenance, Lexus is the way to go.

IMO like Nautilus said, so much of a vehicle's reliability comes down to proper care maintenance. To me, what country the car comes from is pretty irrelvant (not that I'd buy a Yugo, however ;-).

I have a '98 Dodge truck and it's been absolutely reliable, after almost 100k miles I've only had it in for one non-maintenance repair. Whereas the '02 Honda Accord my wife drives has had funky transmission and brake problems since new. I'm not trying to say that Dodges are more reliable than Honda's, it's just that generalizations don't always apply. My advice is do some homework and pick a vehicle that fits your lifestyle, and realize that by their nature certain brands will cost more to maintain than others.

Now if you want some real repair expense, pick up an old Jaguar or a Ferrari.....

I think there is a general trend towards lower reliability in the long-term, and this isn't just with the high-priced marques such as MB, BMW, Volvo, etc. All cars in general aren't lasting the way they used to. Complicated electronics are part of it, no doubt. But I have to wonder if how much responsibility the whole leasing phenomenon has in the way that cars are becoming "disposable", as Steve put it.

Most cars are leased for a period of 2-4 years. In most cases the car will be under warranty for the entire time the original lessee is driving it. The lessee flips the car in the 2-4 year timeframe and moves in to a new, fully warranteed car and has nothing but good things to say about the ownership experience. The dealer and manufacturer (especially the manufacturer) are happy because they've moved another car over the curb, making profit not only on the sale but more importantly on the finance contract.

Who ends up with the car then? People like you and I and everyone else who participates in forums like this for *all* makes and models. People who will turn their own wrenches to varying degrees, and don't mind driving something older that still looks good. We inherit the problems, but since we may not have bought it through the dealer, neither the manufacturer or the dealer really care about us. So we pay for the wiring harnesses, head gaskets, mass airflow sensors, etc.

As long as that original consumer is happy and keeps coming back for another lease, the manufacturer and dealer are happy. So they design the car to be trouble-free for just long enough to keep that original consumer happy. We, in essence, subsidize the lesser factory quality because we pay the price to repair things that should've lasted longer than they actually did.

If the orignal lessee is looking at "disposing" of the car after 4 years, it stands to reason that the manufacturer will increase profitiability by giving them a disposable car. Why build in quality that will never be appreciatedy by the person who paid the dealer for the car?

Jonathan

Like I said before I have a 1978 Chevy Suburban, 300,000 mi. Drive it every day.I bought in 1986. I do all the maint. and repairs. It has been in the shop 2 times. Transmission rebuild 2 years ago and starter ring gear 4 years ago. I have rebuilt the front end, replaced rear axle bearings. Rebuilt the limited slip rear end 5 or 6 years ago. drive shaft bearing and U-joints. Change the oil every 5,000 mi and Trans. every 15,000 mi. The wiring harness is original. The heads have never been off( they need it now ,smoke when cold). As for the Benz the 1983 268,000 mi and the 1987 230,000 mi. both had the original wiring harness and head gaskets. The 87 300d I rebuilt all the suspension front and rear. The 83 as I remember A/C, shocks ,ball joints, brakes nothing really big. Norm in FL

Norm,

I see that all of your cars have alot of miles on it.
I am not sure how many more miles you expect out of them but you should be happy. Maybe you bought those cars used with high miles already on the odometer but then, I am sure you have gotten your moneys worth.

Personally, I feel like I got my moneys worth on my MB.
I was only expecting to get 100,000 miles on it and then was planning on selling it but was "inspired" by people on this forum. Now I strive to achive 300,000 miles. As far as I am concerened, every mile I get out of my car is like extra gravey for me.

Your bad luck with your car is just 1 experience out of many other peoples favorable experiences with the brand.
Did you ever think that the previous owner may have driven it hard or not maintained it well? Just a thought.

Jonathan, I think this is the most profound post I've ever read - quite seriously. Shouldn't you be spending your time with economic think tank or something rather than this?

Having 241,000 miles on my 124, I feel the original purchase price of this car equaled two $23,000 300E's. How far will she go I wonder -- I'll be ecstactic at 315k, anything after will be more gravy. If MB came out with a model today w/o all the gizmos and similar in build quality to the 300E, I'd probably buy one. It has original transmission, same engine (top end rebuilt), suspension has been repaired/replaced but expected, no major electronics repairs (ECU, MAS, etc.). Average maintenance per year has been about $1,500, all DIY because this car is anything but intimidating to work on.

When people learn how many miles are on the odometer they can't believe it. ("how can peacefully drive out of town?") blah..

I can't speak for the 210's but I am sure happy with my 124 purchase. :D

For deanyel & DslBnz:

In Eastern Europe, given the fact that buying a car during Communist times was hard and spare parts practically nonexistant, the drivers had learnt a thing: never treat your car as either crap or deathless - both ways it will fail when you need it most. That is, if you want to keep it beyond the 2-4 years of leasing, use only the best supplies & consumables (fluids, sparkplugs, batteries, gasoline) and change them religiously.

~Nautilus

MB's cost more to maintain compared to other brands like Toyota/Lexus. There is no question about it.

The root cause is the MB design/manufacturing problems.

They cost more because MB design/manufacturing systems are inefficient and they have like that since the 80's, possibly earlier.

The MSRP for my 94 E320 was $43000.00; I would not have paid more than $20,000 for it.

This is my first and probably the last MB, I am switching to Lexus as well.

Compared to other cars that I have owned, my 94 E320 was far worse. It was in like new condition, one owner, MB dealership maintained. I spent over $7000.00 in just the first year of ownership! All MB/MB Supplier design/manufacturing defects and/or MB dealership incompetence.

While I feel deeply sorry for you for two reasons: 1) that your MB was troublesome and 2) for you have paid $43,000 for it ;) I think the M-B/Lexus competition is seen through "a bit blurred" lens...

Since 1995, I've seen plenty of articles from the American continent complaining about German cars' unreliability, while they placed M-Bs, BMWs and Porsches almost every time in the last places in reliability top; on the other side, German press articles complain about the "poor quality of manufacture" in American-made cars - guess some big corporate interest was involved :D

On the other side, most W123s, W124s, W126s and W201s one sees on the street here in Romania were never repaired at the standards of your M-B stealerships - a Romanian will never pay $5,000-10,000 a year to fix his M-B, we simply don't earn that much! And the fact they still run well, even after 25 years of harsh use, poor fuel and hole-littered roads, makes their owners, when asked, to shake their heads and say "this is how German cars are, they're deathless" ;)

Now I wonder: why do our M-Bs (speaking strictly those on the forum) fail?.....:confused: or they actually don't, just we ask too much from them? I've seen M-Bs or BMWs with 600,000km on the odometer, but no Toyotas or Hondas even nearby

~Nautilus

Nautilus
 

Haw many years ago did Romania get its first Honda or Toyota?

Re: Nautilus
 

Authorized dealers began to import them new shortly after the fall of Communism - about 1992-1993. Second-hand examples(built between 1975-1990) had been already imported by the thousands from Western Europe, either by specialized companies or by private owners.

~Nautilus

MBLife
Do you own a Benz? The M104 eng.has a headgasket problem on all engines. I had it changed by the dealer ($1,000) because it started to leak. We were about to take a trip to NC. I do not like to break down on the road. The wiring harness is a problem with all M104 eng and all W210 E320, 1996 mod. and others from what I have seen. The sway bar is something everyone should check. Look at the U-bracket attached to the bottom of the frame (front). Check for cracks on the back side of the U-bracket in the frame. It will eventuality pull out of the frame. (I have photos). I have owned this car for 3 years ,we only drove it 36,000mi.
Norm in FL

Had it with your Benz? I am getting closer.
 

I am a new member of this forum and have learned a great deal since joining. One of these things is that I am not the only one who has semi-regular problems with my E320. Another is that someone else always seems to have a bigger problem than mine.

I have never owned a car longer than my '95 wagon and, despite the cost of keeping on the road (and in great condition) I still love owning and driving the thing. My very capable independent mechanic also loves me owning it as I have dropped over $5,000 with him over the past 12 months.

Having also owned and maintained BMWs, Volvos and other Benzes, I have to say that there comes a point where you either fish or cut bait. I haven't yet reached that point with my wagon. However, my last car buying decision was E430 versus Lexus GS430. Having one rock-solid reliable car is a must for my family (I am getting rid of my '98 Lexus post wreck) so buying another Lexus was an easy call.

Mercedes needs to do something about its reliability if it expects to keep owners like me coming back. I, for one, hope they get their act together.

It is interesting to note that Lexus sells many re-badged Toyotas here in the USA but they don't sell well in Europe.

MB needs to get rid of pointless technology. Period.

THATS IT!

I HAVE SNAPPED!

I AM GOING TO BUY 10x 300Es for $4,000 each...! That way I will be set for life!

How do I go about storing my investments? LOL

:D :D

P.S. I am probably going to become a mechanical engineer so I won't be able to afford a new car anyways! OLD CARS HERE I COME!!!

Let's Not Point At Chrsyler, They Rate Far Better!
 

I hate to say this but let's not point to Chrysler as the problem with the current MB's. I am now driving one of three 1994 Dodge Rams that were bought new and it has 293,000 miles. It uses less than 1 quart of oil between oil changes. The only repairs have been, tune ups, brakes about every 35,000 miles, five or six sets of tires and an Oil pickup screen replacement at 195,000. All three had similar track records. 3 for 3 with great service records and over 200,000 miles. :)

The Chrysler 300 I believe it is, is the Car of The Year! Based on it's track record and current model. Many years and many Chryslers owned, I think your sentiment is misdirected! :confused:

If there are problems at MB, look to MB, I have been a long time Chryler stock holder and I believe they will learn form MB, Not change it. Any billion dollar investment will be pretty carefully managed not to destroy any one of their images by cost cutting by any corporation. (Unless your were AMF and your buying Harley Davidson, they were an exception to that rule!)

MB is still the worlds finest car but they too make mistakes in-house! Maybe the recent MB outsourcing to China for parts could cause some difficulties! :eek:

Besides, most of the car problems that spurred this post were on models made prior to the mergers. 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996??

e.g. "The wiring harness is a problem with all M104 eng and all W210 E320, 1996 mod."

I could go on. Maybe the quality failures at MB in the early 1990's is the reason they were a takeover target in 1998! Look for improvements at the plant. The dealerships are a lost cause however!

there is a good srticle in the latest issue of "automobile' magazine called "losing the luster" that addresses the decline of the quality of products made by a certain german auto manufacturer. indeed, the perception is that the germans build the finest cars in the world. the reality, however is quite different. a good article worth checking out.....

Daimler bought Chrysler, not the other way 'round. Bought it fairly cheap, from what I read. I've also read that most of the top Chrysler management has been replaced by krauts, too.

FWIW,

too much technology
 

I've had my 1998 c230 for 2 years now an it really is a pleasure to drive. Smooth ride no rattles or squeeks and the engine sounds great. Unfortunately the rest of the car leaves a lot to be desired. My power windows are the most current problem. Why was it necessary to have them computer controled? I too will have to seriously think about buying another one.

Well, good ridance.......................Good by