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  #91  
Old 01-08-2005, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly
you should have the special tool that installs into the hole in the front of the camshaft to allow proper fitting of the radial seal over the cam
What special tool? Is this absolutely necessary? Can I get by without it? If not, where do I get one? I was just planning on driving the cam seal in using a block of wood, then possibly a seal installer or socket if it needs to be recessed (would check the existing seal and duplicate).

Is the o-ring for the pipe available at the dealer? Is the one in there reusable?

Also, regarding question #5 above, I'm sure the water pump would be easier to do while everything's already out, but is it NECESSARY? In other words, will I have to re-do the loctite and cam seal, etc. if I do the water pump at a later date?

Thanks for all the help!

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  #92  
Old 01-09-2005, 05:25 AM
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Yes the dealer should stock the o-ring, usually I would NEVER reuse this stupid little o-ring, not worth the rick and costs about a buck.

No, hardly (if any) work would be duplicated to do the waterpump, so no big deal to wait on it now.

The tool is to install the cover OVER the camshaft (when installing the cover assembly), not to install the seal into the front cover. It's a guide to get the seal onto the cam without folding or tearing the rubber. Maybe someone else has done it without the tool, I suppose if you were careful you could do it, I've always had the tool. If you have a service disc or manual it should show it, it's like a carefully sized tapered cone which slips into the front of the camshaft that lets the seal go slightly oversized to avoid the sharp edge in the front of the camshaft. After the cover is installed the tool is simply removed and you go on with your work. Keeps the seal from getting damaged.

Gilly
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  #93  
Old 01-09-2005, 11:09 AM
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EXCELLENT information. Thank you very much!

I don't have a service CD for my car yet - it sounds like many of my questions would be answered if I had one. If anyone has one for sale, please let me know.

Thanks again!
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97 W210 E320
91 W124 300E
86 W126 560SEL
85 W126 380SE Silver
85 W126 380SE Cranberry
79 W123 250
78 W123 280E
75 W114 280
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  #94  
Old 01-09-2005, 12:11 PM
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Since they make beer and soda cans out of such thin aluminum these days, you can cut a square out of the can with shears and rap around the shaft to protect the seal. You can dress the exposed edge of the can with a fine file to remove the roughness. Also the manual says to remove the tandem pump bracket to change the pump. Those allen bolts are a PITA. A fellow mechanic enlightened me to the fact that if you remove the tensioner, the job is a piece of cake.

Peter
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  #95  
Old 10-30-2005, 02:02 AM
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Hey Lino, it has been over a year since your repair. So, no more leaks?
I plan on doing this and will follow your method to the T. I am just confused to Gilly's input re round seal that requires a special tool. Hopefully Gilly could chime in.
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  #96  
Old 10-30-2005, 05:11 AM
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The round seal is in the middle of the cover, you can't see it when the engine is assembled. The ignition rotor in effect is attached to the front of the cam shaft. The rotor is screwed to what MB calls the "rotor bracket". This bracket is screwed and indexed into the front of the camshaft through a hole in the front cover under the distributor. There is a "radial seal", looks like a small front hub seal, to seal up where this bracket exits the front cover. This is the "round seal" I mentioned. The tool you are "supposed" to use is a conical shaped tool you stick in the hole the bracket inserts in to, then slide the cover into this tool and back onto the engine, the cone is just slightly larger than the outer diameter of the part of the cam that is contacting the seal, so it "nicely" gets the radial seal and camshaft together with no risk of damage to the sealing lip of that seal. You could do without it, would want to be very careful about putting the cover onto the engine with regards to getting that front seal over the camshaft. Larry Bible or someone mentioned not having this tool and "no problem".
Be aware there is 2 different sizes of this tool, one fits only very early engines, only the first year or 2 of 103 production, the other one is used 98% of the time, I think the size of the hole in the camshaft changed, made it bigger.
Gilly
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  #97  
Old 10-30-2005, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly
The round seal is in the middle of the cover, you can't see it when the engine is assembled. The ignition rotor in effect is attached to the front of the cam shaft. The rotor is screwed to what MB calls the "rotor bracket". This bracket is screwed and indexed into the front of the camshaft through a hole in the front cover under the distributor. There is a "radial seal", looks like a small front hub seal, to seal up where this bracket exits the front cover. This is the "round seal" I mentioned. The tool you are "supposed" to use is a conical shaped tool you stick in the hole the bracket inserts in to, then slide the cover into this tool and back onto the engine, the cone is just slightly larger than the outer diameter of the part of the cam that is contacting the seal, so it "nicely" gets the radial seal and camshaft together with no risk of damage to the sealing lip of that seal. You could do without it, would want to be very careful about putting the cover onto the engine with regards to getting that front seal over the camshaft. Larry Bible or someone mentioned not having this tool and "no problem".
Be aware there is 2 different sizes of this tool, one fits only very early engines, only the first year or 2 of 103 production, the other one is used 98% of the time, I think the size of the hole in the camshaft changed, made it bigger.
Gilly
Thanks Gilly. Is the Locktite 5900 still the latest and greatest?
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  #98  
Old 10-30-2005, 03:54 PM
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I would go with that, or I guess the newest stuff isn't "real" 5900, but something MB must make a better profit on, but the current guys in the shop say it sure seems like the same stuff, I think they told me it is marked "Made in Italy". At any rate I wouldn't settle for anything less than either the current stuff or if you can find Loctite 5900 at some alternate source. Don't go with some cheap "RTV" or "Form a Gasket" stuff, too much work to cut corners on the sealant.
If you see, under the plastic disc which is under the distributor cap (you need to remove the rotor bracket to remove this disc, which weather-seals the distributor cap) some varnishy oil deposits (would be on the actual front cover, around this radial seal), then I'd recommend a new radial seal. If it's all nice and clean and dry, then you can consider passing on the new radial seal. Kind of up to you. The real anal-retentive types would say to replace the radial seal EVERY time, same reason as you don't want to go cheap on the sealant, too much work to just skip doing it all, I can respect that reasoning. The part is cheap and not hard to replace it.....
Gilly
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  #99  
Old 10-31-2005, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly
If you see, under the plastic disc which is under the distributor cap (you need to remove the rotor bracket to remove this disc, which weather-seals the distributor cap) Gilly
Just to clarify. What rotor bracket? Is this the one with the three torx? screw? Isn't that the rotor itself?
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  #100  
Old 10-31-2005, 05:13 AM
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The rotor bracket is the metal piece UNDER the rotor. In other words it's the piece those 3 screws actually thread in to. You need to remove these screws, then there is 1 central bolt under the rotor which holds on the "bracket" (screws into the camshaft itself). It can be difficult to remove if it gets a small oil leak. The oil gets in between the bracket and cam and almosts acts like a sealer. You can use penetrant to try to release it, usually that will soften it up a bit. Don't get carried away with prying on it, it WILL break.
There is an index notch in the bracket, so you don't need to worry about the position of the bracket when removing, it'll only go back together if you index the notch.
Gilly
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  #101  
Old 10-31-2005, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly
The rotor bracket is the metal piece UNDER the rotor. In other words it's the piece those 3 screws actually thread in to. You need to remove these screws, then there is 1 central bolt under the rotor which holds on the "bracket" (screws into the camshaft itself). It can be difficult to remove if it gets a small oil leak. The oil gets in between the bracket and cam and almosts acts like a sealer. You can use penetrant to try to release it, usually that will soften it up a bit. Don't get carried away with prying on it, it WILL break.
There is an index notch in the bracket, so you don't need to worry about the position of the bracket when removing, it'll only go back together if you index the notch.
Gilly
Thanks for being patient. This will be my first major project, didn't want any surprises.
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  #102  
Old 10-31-2005, 01:15 PM
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I used plastic shim stock worked great, locttite still sells 5900 but only in the big tube, look up locktite on the computer they shipped to me in a couple of days
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  #103  
Old 10-31-2005, 04:15 PM
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The big tube is the one you need a caulking gun for? I think the stuff MB wants you to use now is available in smaller "squish" tubes.
Gilly
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  #104  
Old 11-01-2005, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly
The big tube is the one you need a caulking gun for? I think the stuff MB wants you to use now is available in smaller "squish" tubes.
Gilly
Got one today. At my local dealership it is still the "syringe type" like the foto from LINO posts.
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  #105  
Old 11-01-2005, 01:51 AM
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Gilly, any tricks to take out the rotor brackets? Sprayed penerating oil all over but will not move; didn't want to break torx screw.

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