Purchase advice needed, AGAIN!!
 

My first post on this message board had a similar title. I was seeking advice on purchasing an '84 300SD. Everyone recommended that I purchase it and so I did. And I have no regrets at all!

Now, seems like my purchase of the 300SD was just beginning of my love for the 126 chassis. Now every time I see a 126 for sale, I have to stop and have a look at it.

Right now I have to decide on which car to buy from these two:

Car 1:

1985 US 500SEL with 244K miles. The car's interior is in good shape. Everything works, from all heated seats to the power reclining rear seat. The seats have the usual wear from age, but nothing big really. The sunroof works but tends to start sliding off its rails as it opens. Also, the headliner under the sunroof is turning brown, a sign that water may have leaked into it. The paint on the outside is horrible and worn out. It will need a new coat of paint to look presentable. A/C doesn't blow cold. Rear windows are all tinted (look really nice). Brake pads seem worn, "Antilock" light stays on after car is started. Missing a piece of woodgrain from the dash. Dash has a very tiny crack on it. Motor mounts must be worn out or something because entire car shakes when idling, even worse than my diesel.

This car is from a mechanic. He repaired it for a customer in April this year and the customer hasn't come back for it. He also called the customer many times but never had his calls returned. So he obtained the title and is now selling it. The only service record the car has is from what the mechanic did which was extensive: he fixed a blown headgasket, performed a full valve job, replaced both timing chains, changed the coolant (he put the green stuff in there, blah), changed the spark plugs, engine oil, etc. The car was in his garage for two months. I know this because I saw the car there. Being a very honest man (he is a pastor), his asking price is simply the cost of the work he did on the car: $2,500.

Car 2:

1986 US 560SEL with 240K miles: Saw this at a used car dealer's lot. He purchased it from an auction, so naturally, no service records exist. Car's exterior is sharp and excellent. Deep blue in color. Previous owner mounted huge 235/60R15 tires on the car, and they are all good. Everything in the interior works, from sunroof to all seat heaters and window motors. A/C seemed to blow cold, though the temperature outside was just 55F so that wasn't a good test of the A/C. Interior seats just have the usual wear, with the driver's seat having a section that's completely torn out. Otherwise the rest of the interior is great. All the wood was in place, no cracks in dash. Engine bay looked like no one has ever cleaned it!! It also had the dreaded green coolant in the system. While the car's rear end wasn't sagging, I don't know if the hydroneumatic suspension is working. There is a hissing sound coming from the rear end, like something is leaking when the car is running. I tried to test the suspension by standing in the trunk (I weigh 285 lbs) while the dealer revved the engine to 3000rpm... but the rear end didn't rise up, so I guess it doesn't work. Is this a proper test for it?

I didn't get to drive it, as one of the tires is flat. The dealer said I can have my test drive tomorrow. His asking price is $3,000. However, I explained to him that purchasing an MB V8 without service records is a huge risk and he was impressed by my "seemingly detailed" knowledge of the car, so I know I can easily beat the price down to $2,500.

So there, I have two $2,500 MB 126 V8s, both with palomino interiors. The 560SEL is more attractive, however the 500SEL definitely has already undergone a top end overhaul. I am very confused on this. I am seeking your assistance so as to minimize the possibilities of making an illogical move. Thanks.

To be honest with you, for that kind of money I would not expect to get much more than a " Parts Car " or " Winter Beater ".
The prospect of buying a " moneypit " is there for sure. ;)

'85 380SE here in DC/VA w/ 79K miles...
 

Beautiful original Astralsilver with pristine burgundy leather and carpets/mats - car is as new with recent tuneup, brakes and tires. Spare has never been on the ground, toolkit still in sealed plastic bag. Sony indash AM/FM with CD. Belongs to a friend who wants to get it to a MB Club member or someone else who appreciates this car. $8000. Don't let his 16 year old son use this as a learner/beater!
I wish my wife wanted an auto tranny - she could be stylin'!

John in VA

I'd get the 560, how's that for short and to the point?

Gilly

Oh yes I am quite well aware of that. I'd like to get the car for fun. $2,500 doesn't sound too bad for me. If it becomes an absolute money pit I'll just dump it. I'm just wondering which is the better value, and which will seem to be less of a money pit than the other.

Here, I'll copy and paste your first post and comment in red:

Car 1:

1985 US 500SEL with 244K miles. The car's interior is in good shape. Everything works, from all heated seats to the power reclining rear seat. The seats have the usual wear from age, but nothing big really. The sunroof works but tends to start sliding off its rails as it opens. I wouldn't define the sunroof as "working", you say "everything" works. You'll break it if you continue to use it, does that constitute "working"?Also, the headliner under the sunroof is turning brown, a sign that water may have leaked into it.So the headliner would need to be replaced too, nice. The paint on the outside is horrible and worn out. It will need a new coat of paint to look presentable.undefinedDitto previos comment in regards to the headliner, the 560 you said looks nice. A/C doesn't blow cold. Rear windows are all tinted (look really nice).Personal choice I guess. If I lived further south maybe I could get into tinted windows, although I did this on a few of my cars in my yout (yes i said "yout" on purpose, watch "My Cousin Vinnie) at any rate I wouldn't want it on just the rear windows, looks alot better on all side windows and the rear if you're going to have it. the 126 is BIG, but not a limo! (Unless it's a 126 limo I guess) Brake pads seem worn, "Antilock" light stays on after car is started.So a nice repair bill if you want to get the ABS to work, and plus you're looking at maybe some maintenance work too. Missing a piece of woodgrain from the dash. Dash has a very tiny crack on it.Eh, as long as you know about stuff like this ahead of time, it's up to you as far as putting up with it or repairing, personal choice. Motor mounts must be worn out or something because entire car shakes when idling, even worse than my diesel.The engine has just been repaired, even with lousy motor mounts it should run smooth at idle, not "worse than a Diesel". You may "feel" the engine a little bit in a case like this. Compare it to the 560.

This car is from a mechanic. He repaired it for a customer in April this year and the customer hasn't come back for it. He also called the customer many times but never had his calls returned. So he obtained the title and is now selling it. The only service record the car has is from what the mechanic did which was extensive: he fixed a blown headgasket, performed a full valve job, replaced both timing chains, changed the coolant (he put the green stuff in there, blah), changed the spark plugs, engine oil, etc. I am a little leery about this whole deal. I know the mechanic can go about getting what's called a "mechanics lein" on the vehicle, but still, in a case like this the owner is probably a local person, who probably still has a key or two for the car, so think about how comforting THAT is, unless you know the prior owner is deceased or moved to Canada or something. Plus I don't see where knowing about the work that was just done constitutes "knowing the service history" of the car. Plus the engine isn't idling smoothly, what if the work he just did goes south? Will he give you a warranty on the work he just did? Say 1 year? The car was in his garage for two months. I know this because I saw the car there. Being a very honest man (he is a pastor), his asking price is simply the cost of the work he did on the car: $2,500. Even that sorta rubs me the wrong way, but I don't know why. Maybe a BUSINESSMAN should expect to make a little more profit when he's selling the whole car instead of the work, or at least expect that storing the car at his place for so long is worth "something". Even an honest, pastorial mechanic.

Car 2:

1986 US 560SEL with 240K miles:OK, mileage is a draw Saw this at a used car dealer's lot. He purchased it from an auction, so naturally, no service records exist.In the case of both cars you could at least get some info on them from MB on VMI from a dealer Car's exterior is sharp and excellent. Deep blue in color.Well, that's a good start, at least it looks good! Previous owner mounted huge 235/60R15 tires on the car, and they are all good.I assume on stock rims, I like having the factory-size rubber, but if you like them and they're in good shape, what the heck.... Everything in the interior works, from sunroof to all seat heaters and window motors. A/C seemed to blow cold, though the temperature outside was just 55F so that wasn't a good test of the A/C.It might at least prove the mono-watervalve is shutting off as it should. In honesty, if the 500 didn't seem to cool, it may not be the AC, it may be a water valve problem (letting warm water through). You;d have to pay attention to what the engine coolant temp was when you were testing them, this would make a big difference in trying to determine if the AC and heater systems are working Interior seats just have the usual wear, with the driver's seat having a section that's completely torn out.You could try finding a "normal" wear seat or seat cover on a used one or something like that, new are available but big buck$. especially if it's leather Otherwise the rest of the interior is great. All the wood was in place, no cracks in dash. Engine bay looked like no one has ever cleaned it!!That's unusual for a used car lot. Persoanlly I'd rather see it "as it is" rather than all spiffed up. You can ruin things by cleaning them, especially with a pressure washer or something. I'd look at this "still dirty" engine compartment as a "positive negative" It also had the dreaded green coolant in the system.So does the other one, you can count on spending a bit getting everything back to where it should be on either of these, budget a grand or so for maintenance, just in case you find any surprises. While the car's rear end wasn't sagging, I don't know if the hydroneumatic suspension is working. There is a hissing sound coming from the rear end, like something is leaking when the car is running.I'd bet that's the fuel pump running, hard to tell if it's anything to worry about right away. I tried to test the suspension by standing in the trunk (I weigh 285 lbs) while the dealer revved the engine to 3000rpm... but the rear end didn't rise up, so I guess it doesn't work. Is this a proper test for it?Usually that'll do it, but I'd wait a minute or two before condemning the system, it may take a few minutes in other words. If it's sitting level (not normally sagging in the back) then I don't know if I'd worry too much, 'course it's not MY money's gonna be fixing it either.

I didn't get to drive it, as one of the tires is flat. The dealer said I can have my test drive tomorrow.Pretty lousy they couldn't grab an air tank and get it up on all 4 for ya to drive right away. His asking price is $3,000. However, I explained to him that purchasing an MB V8 without service records is a huge risk and he was impressed by my "seemingly detailed" knowledge of the car, so I know I can easily beat the price down to $2,500. Yeah, I'd try to beat 'em down a grand maybe (to $2000, $2500 would be OK, but aim lower and be willing to come up to 2500). The 500 I'd maybe offer a $1000, too much at risk=engine work w/shaking engine, mechanic lein title are especially what worry me.

So there, I have two $2,500 MB 126 V8s, both with palomino interiors. The 560SEL is more attractive, however the 500SEL definitely has already undergone a top end overhaul. I am very confused on this. I am seeking your assistance so as to minimize the possibilities of making an illogical move. Thanks.
In either case, if can settle on one or the other, get your own PPI done, hopefully at a dealer. Tell them you want a 1 hour inspection done, should be worth it, especially if you can narrow your choice to one of them. On the 560, be sure to ask them about the rear self-levelling feature operation. May be a better deal even if it needs some work done, although the shocks themselves you'd want to find used somewhere, very pricey.

GILLY

If I really have to make a choice, I will take the 560SEL instead. Seems to me that the 500 still has lots of problems, and we are not sure how much work were done by the mech.

Also i do feel $2500 is too high for both cars, it got over 200,000miles and the condition is uncertain. These cars can be a money pit if you have no idea about its service history.

I have a 560SEL and i can tell you the sound from the rear is the fuel pump. It is normal if you hear some "zzzzzz" sound, if it start crying that mean the fuel pump is going south... also 560 has 2 fuel pumps, one of my fuel pumps died when i was driving and my car cannot go over 80mph(feel lke having a speed limit control)

for the hydroneumatic suspension, i dont need to rev the engine to 3000rpm to make the rear raise, i got 2 big adults plus 3 suitcases at that time, once i start the engine, i saw the rear is raising up instantly. but if that car doesnt sag, also the PO may switch the hydro sus back to the basic one 420SEL has.


just my 0.02

Thank you all for your very valuable replies. I've been out of town [in a place so rural that in this day and age there were no land phone lines so I had no Internet access] so I wasn't able to post any replies. Well, I'm back home now!!

Gilly, thanks for that long analysis. I can understand your concern on the local owner having a spare key or so, but then again, the same can be the case with the 560SEL. Why? Well, when I traded in my Toyota Camry Solara for my Avalon, I actually forgot to give the third key for the car to the dealer. So that means that I could have gotten away with keeping a spare key to the car if I wanted to do so for fraudulent purposes. I ended up returning the key to the dealer before the car was re-sold, however I just thought I'd state that as an example. Granted, chances that'd be the case with the 560SEL are slim, considering the last owner of the car lives in Nevada (I ran the Vehicle History Report - all clean!!)

jchowe420, thanks for your 2 cents. I really value them. The dealer later told me he didn't let me drive the car that day because the flat tire was actually punctured and he had ordered a replacement for it which hadn't arrived on the day I went there. The next day I was there, the atmospheric temperature was in the 80s F, I ran the A/C and it was freezing cold. However, no air comes out of the center vents on "Auto." The air comes out well when on "high." I am thinking the 560SEL is the better choice too. I've ruled out the 500SEL, engine top-end rebuild or none. In fact, I will offer the 560SEL dealer $2,000 since he said he isn't willing to let me have a PPI on it. He intends to sell it "as is." If he doesn't take $2,000, I'll back out!

I know what you mean about maybe a weird lingering doubt about buying a used car. Most people don't think about that sort of thing. But the point about the 500 is that since it had a mechanics lein on it and the mechanic basically "claimed the car" because of a non-payment on the bill, etc. one would wonder if the prior owner might take some sort of exception to the proceedings and try to claim back what was once his. That's what I meant. Usually a car on a used car lot there is no potential for hard-feelings by the prior owner, they sold it or traded it in and simply moved on.
You could always re-key the car or at least the ignition switch to a different key. MB will sell a "generic" or non-factory coded lock tumbler.

Gilly

He won't let you do a ppi? my car was an "as is" sale to. Be carefull with "as is" W126's. How much blow-by does the 560 have? How does the oil look? Pull a spark plug or two and see how they look.

no PPI is that a red flag or what?
 

it's no skin off the man's nose to let you have a ppi. the fact that he won't has to be the biggest red flag yet. frankly speaking the only thing i've read so far are negatives. there really hasn't be anything positive except items that are "not too bad"

i'd walk and keep looking. unless you are in dire straits for another vehicle there are better vehicles with not much more of an asking price out there to be had.

I've already inspected that and believe it or not, nothing looks bad in there, though that engine bay is dirty!! I have inspected all the things I am capable of inspecting. In fact, I used your car as an example when explaining how neglected 126s can end up costing too much.

Maybe I wasn't specific, but he said that I can bring a mechanic over there, but that he has no provision to let me take the car to a mechanic's shop as he has never had anyone make such a demand on any of the cars he has sold. This guy runs a small used car lot that normally sells cars priced under $2,000. He just came across this one at auction and purchased it. It was traded in at a dealership. I'm not desperate for a car at all, I actually have too many. Thank God my insurance is all free or else I wouldn't be able to keep all these cars with full coverage. Believe me, I will think about it before I buy. However I am glad that this situation has allowed me to educate the man on these cars. He is so ignorant about them that he didn't even know the car had a reclining rear seat! He also couldn't believe the prices I was giving him for the repairs of certain things in the car. Comments such as "I didn't know anything in a car can cost that much to fix" kept on coming out of his mouth during our conversations. I know he will end up selling it even if I pass on it. Some moron who wants the prestige of the three pointed star will probably just buy it and then re-sell it after the repairs drive him/her into bankruptcy! HAHAHA

They really are not to much to fix you just have to know what your getting into, their isn't a 350 Chevy under the hood. If you want a W126 to save and play with it might be a good buy. Mileage can be a good thing it means at least the oil was changed.

560SEL is a very good car and there are some good looking 560 for sales in ebay. For the year/mileage/condition of the car i think 1500-2000 is ok.
Good luck!

Yeah, I was beginning to think that, but then again I already have my '84 Euro 500SEL which I am saving and playing with (replaced battery, tranny, blow motor replacement needed, etc). I'll give this some more thought. Thanks.

At first I was going to buy the 560SEL, but then the dealer has been taking his time with repairing/replacing the punctured tire. So, after considering that my 500SEL still needs waay too much work for me to be considering another piece of German metal, I've decided not to buy anything else until the 500SEL is in great shape.

Currently tackling the climate control / blower motor issue...

Thank you all for your help. I've definitely learned a lot on how to choose between two such cars next time!

I purchased a 560sel a couple years ago - $1400, ratty condition (paint looked good, interior worn, most things working, some things not working...), engine running rough with no power, rear end sagging or bouncing.

I had to put $500 into front suspension, and another $500 to get the motor running properly, but from that point it drove great. It still needed lots of little things, and a few big ones, but I didn't worry about it and just drove it until it broke (about 25,000 miles from when I bought it).

Some would consider my experience to be less than positive, however it was my first venture into MB ownership, and even a ratty 560sel can be a wonderful car. There is (almost) nothing like it from 50-100mph on the freeway. If you would have told me that I would settle into thinking a heavy 4 door with an automatic was my car of choice, I would have laughed.

Now, I've "upgraded" to a very nice 500sel w140. While this car is a serious refinement from the 560, if I could get a 560 in mint condition, I'm not sure that I wouldn't rather have that...

I agree, $2500 sounds like a lot for either car (150k mi+ examples exist all over the place), but a few dollars less and you would be hard pressed not to consider anything that runs well a "bargain"...

-David

I came across yet another 560SEL with 243K miles and zero service records. The dealer was asking for $2,000. Several seat/window motors weren't working in it, otherwise it was in great shape. For some reason, I can't seem to find any that have relatively low mileage and/or have service records in my area. I won't even mind one with high mileage provided I have proof in the form of service records, that the car was taken care of. I don't want to buy one of these cars from eBay, as there are way too many risks of misrepresentation involved. These M-Bs are built tough to withstand a lot of abuse, so the fact that one runs good up to 240K miles doesn't necessarily mean it was well cared for. Things could then start going crazy at that mileage, especially the engine and transmission. Also, from what I've read, these engines generally require a top-end job (valves, head gasket) at around that mileage, so I don't want to get one that's just due for a $3,000 repair!

But for now, I'm temporarily quitting my search. Once my Euro 500SEL is in the condition I wish to have it, then I can look for a good 560SEL.

12000 miles per year is considered "low miles", and for an 84 this would mean 240K or so....

-David

I understand you very well David, as the national average miles driven per year on each car is 15,000 miles. However, I own quite a few old cars and they all have really low miles, all verified and not bogus: '89 Corolla: 139K; '89 Mazda 929: 128K; '84 300SD: 155K; '84 500SEL: 155K. I generally don't want cars that have really high miles because even with superior engineering, wear and tear will mean I will have quite a bit of items to repair, from stuff like worn seats and dead electric motors to even major leaks from the drivetrain and worn out suspension components. Get what I mean?

Well mileage isn't everything age is worse. The problem with 100k miles W126's at this stage in the game is unless it was a weekend or toy car it was driven around town. That means the doors, trans, and suspension have a lot more wear then a highway driven car. Also the interior on a highway driven car is generaly in better condition because usually only 1-2 people are in it at a time. Mine for example was a commuter car so only the drivers seat has a lot of wear. The back seats look like new and the passengers is very nice.

Around town is also harder on the engine, engines like constant speeds it is good for the bearings. Highway driven engines are usually cleaner inside if they were taken care of because everything can burn off.

Now I know of a few "toy" W126's that look like they belong in a show room. They are one owner cars that don't know what rain and snow looks like. But a perfect example like that will run you at least into the mid teens if not closer to $20k. (an SEL not an SEC, SEC's have a higher value)

At this stage any W126 is going to need a lot of work their are probably very few well sorted examples out their. But condition must be judged on a car by car basis.

Is a 100k 300SDL better then a 200k SDL? On ebay the 100k mile one might sell for more but you might not be getting to much more.

I can understand what you're saying, but my point remains as I have experienced first hand with my own W126s. Age may generally be worse than mileage but at least with certain miles the drivetrain will have much more life in them regardless of how they were used. Several sensors and such will wear faster with more mileage for a given vehicle's age and will be needing replacements. I know this for sure just by reading threads around here on the sensors, motors and tiny but annoying other things owners of higher mileage cars are replacing now which I don't have to worry about as of yet. For instance, I know that my 500SEL won't be needing a valve job or anything quite involving soon because it still has low miles. Even with city-only driving, such a huge service won't be due prematurely. Also, my 300SD was in pretty much prestine condition when I got it, and I didn't pay with my arm and legs for it.

Additional pertinent info:

Before I realized that I could find a w140 for under $10,000, I looked at a few "nice" 560sels.

One that I saw was white, light colored interior, drove and looked near perfect. 110k miles. $4000.

There is also a very nice 560SEC here in town, lots of upgrades, 70k miles, black/black, one owner who has all records. $15,000 (firm)

Mileage and price are not everything. Condition is everything. :) There is a guy here in town who has a 535i with 350,000 miles, and I would gladly pay him up to $3000 for the car (even though it "books" at under $1000), as it is just that well maintained.

-David

Every $10k W140 I have seen so far needs a lot of work. But A $10k W126 would be a near perfect example. I don't know where you guys dig up the mint W126's but they all seem to be $10k+ in my area. I looked at an 89 or 90 560SEL that was real nice but it needed to have some maintaince caught up, they probably would have sold it for around $7,500-$8,000. A diy could have put another $1,000 and had a mint car. Still it was very clean and in good shape with a fesh paint job.

Well, I must have just found "the" deal.

I purchased my 92 500sel, looks exc, runs fine, $7800.

I replaced the front suspension ($500) and then brought it to a reputable "indy" and asked him to "fix everything". The bill was $900, which shows just how clean the car is. ($300 was oil, tranny, diff oil swap). He advised that the tranny would need help in the near future.

10,000 miles later I rebuilt the tranny ($1300 total) and now I'm jammin'.

-David

Wow you did get a good deal! I am still felling a little burned from my SDL so I am very very careful around cheap MB's.

Was the evap core ever done? Did it have maintaince records? Thats a good price I would like a W140.

My dream car, or rather cars, will be a set of the following two cars: 1999 W140 S600 loaded with every option ($155,000 sticker when new) and a 2005 W220 S500 4MATIC also loaded up ($107,000 sticker new). I'd definitely want the W140 in any form (like an S320) for now. However for some reason all the well maintained ones I come across cost way over $15K

David, you definitely got a great deal on yours. Hopefully I'll be as lucky some day. I plan on acquiring my dream S600 by December 2005. Here's hoping.

I do agree that condition is the main factor affecting the price these old cars can fetch. But even a well maintained car that's in great shape with 400,000 miles won't be very attractive to me especially if it is still running on original engine and transmission. The reason for this being that it is obvious that with such high mileage those things would be needing $$$ spent on them pretty soon.

The 1995 S600 was better then the 99. The power went down and MB deleted a few options to keep cost down. It is a sweet car W140 S600's dad has a pristene 1995. That V12 just pulls and pulls it is such a sweet engine.

But you have to be careful because unless you are looking at the speedo 60 feels just like 120. :D It kind of misses the Autobahn it really likes going over 100! :cool:

I have 3 dream Mercs

I want a CL65 AMG that is black on black.
A CLK-GTR would be pretty sweet. :D I would get arrested for doing 200 on I-91 in about 10min but it would be fun for a little while.
And a 6.9 or 6.3 I would enjoy hunting ricers and messing with Vettes. :D

I am the third owner. First owner kept very good records, and maintenance book was up to date (and all original owners manuals,etc., were there).

I am not sure if the evap core has been done, but I can tell that the dash has been taken apart (there is a little foam sticking out from under the a-pillar cover - you would have to be a car expert to find this), and I'm hoping that the core was replaced. The AC blows cold (45F out of the vents during 110F days), and entire HVAC systems appears functional.

Attached is a photo. I added the rims.

The po was advertising the car for $13000, but it said in the ad "must have cash by (date)", and it was the day that I was reading the ad, so I called and he said he would take less (and after finding out he was within 48 hours of foreclosure, a lot less...)

If you like "big Mercedes", then I cannot recommend the 140 highly enough. Comfortable and smooth enough that mom says "wow, this car rides really nice" - little does she know what it will do if you whip it... (Major difference in handling is that it doesn't fall apart in tight (or any) corners. There is a suggestion that the 140 would be more "boaty", but my experience is that if you ride it hard, it responds confidently.)

Interesting note - my dad owned only ONE foreign car in his life (a Mazda RX7, actually bought it for me), and a long list of Chevy's, Buicks, etc. He set a goal that one day he would like to get a car to 100k miles. Despite being a conservative driver, and keeping up on oil changes, etc., he died without success.

For me, 100k miles is "like new"...

-David

I'd like a Maybach 62, but that's not a dream that I may be able to fulfill. However, the two cars I already stated that I want I can actually get. Might have to sell my house though. LOL

I prefer the 1999 W140 because it has the new Airmatic DC suspension introduced in 1998. I have driven a pre-98 S-Class and a 1999 S500 with the Airmatic over the exact same roads and the new suspension rides so much better than the old one its unbelievable!!

In fact, the very best S600 would be the 1994 one. In 1995, the S-Class was "cheapened." Lower quality parts were used, options deleted, and base prices reduced by about $5,000. That huge drop represented a huge drop in quality.

What options were deleted in 95? It still has those stupid antenna things that pop up when you reverse, and about every other option you can ever dream of needing. Frankly I find the seats too adjustable, thats the only thing I don't like about the W140 I don't need or want 14 way seats.

The air suspension is nice but I don't think it is any better then the S600's. Remember the 600 has different suspension then the other models. It is fully hydrolic(sp?) all the way around. The W220's are nice I can't really find fault with them, the air suspension rides ok but you have to bring it to the dealer to get it alighned.

But really what S class doesn't ride awsome? If I had the money I would have a W116, W126, W140, and W220. Their all great and I want to collect them all! :D

I'm currently not thinking straight now, and would be glad to get more information for you later on if you wish, but I remember that on the sedans, the rear seat head restraints could no longer be raised AND lowered by means of a button mounted on the rear seating area. The total number of seat adjustments for the rear seats in cars with the four seat package was reduced. I can't quite remember all the options, but I do remember the sharp drop in base prices from in 1995 despite an increase in the level of standard equipment.

I know the S600 has a hydraulic suspension, however the air suspension was much better. I know this from experience. The S-Class I drove with the air suspension had a much unforgettable ride quality. And I do agree, all of the S-Class automobiles are awesome. I'm currently obssessed with the W126 because that's all I can afford to have/maintain right now. But soon I'll be searching for my dream W140 and then my dream W220. Once my BMW is paid off early next year, I'll sell it as well as some other cars from my fleet and get my W140. Can't wait!!

You think 14-way power seats is excessive? Well, try the new Audi A8. It has 20-way power seats!! Hey, since we're both W140 lovers, did you know that the W140 is the ONLY vehicle in M-B history to not post a profit during its existence? Interesting stuff. They over-engineered that car to shut up Lexus, Infiniti and Acura who had all come on the scene to steal M-B's business. M-B obviously succeeded, as every Acura and Lexus made since its creation has been a direct rip off of it in every aspect: styling, feel, power, etc. However the car was costing way too much to build. Even after the "cheapening" of 1995 and the slight price increases in 1998 and 1999, the W140 Benz never made a profit. I wasn't surprised to read it as that car is better in all aspects than many Bentleys and Rolls Royces cost hundreds of thousands more.

I like the W140 a lot and am thinking about maybe replacing my SDL with one if it doesn't stop needing constant work. I am seeing a lot of very nice 1994 and 1995 S420's and 320's for sale in my area at great prices. I would like an S320, I6's are simple to work on and I don't really want a lot of options because I have to fix them when they break! :D A base S420 or S320 with about 100k miles on it with a full maintaince history is looking pretty good now.

An S320 wouldn't be a bad choice at all. I know a guy who owns one and even with a lead foot he averages 20 mpg. Not bad at all for such a heavy car. Just be aware of the fact that everything related to the W140 chassis is much more expensive than you're used to, with your W126. I truly can't wait to be rolling around in a W140, regardless of the engine under the hood and the options included in the vehicle assembly. I just don't want to get one that will be a money pit, and in order to avoid a money pit, I'd probably have to pay significantly up front at the purchase. Not quite ready for that yet. I just have to be patient.