I have been driving an 85 500 SEL for about 3 years now. "Faded Glory" is showing 257,00 miles on her OD but that quit working right about a year ago. Seems she is only logging 1 mile for about ever 5 or 6 driven. Speedo seems right so it is safe to say the old gal has been around the block...a bunch of times. She is still hauling most of her original equipment but has never really socked it to me at the shop yet. You know what happens when a woman pulls into a shop with a MB! There is too much that does not work (a/c, heat, criuse ect.) to list but I love this car. She is not worth much except as parts so I am not prepared to shoulder a big repair bill. Other than I love it, I drive it because I cannot afford anything else.

Here is the problem. My brother in law and I have been co-driving her the last couple of months. About 2 weeks ago he complained of a severe power loss at low speed. The rpm's shot through the roof almost into the red. Driving the 60 miles back from the airport yesterday, she did it to me. It felt like I was in neutral but I had dropped back to 1st or 2nd gear for no reason. Once on the highway everything seemed fine. This car has never shifted hard, hesitated to backup or move forward from a standstill. Only time it has ever slipped was when it was low on ATF because of the minor leak I have not fixed. That has only happened maybe 5 or 6 times over the last few months. I have been told to change fluid and filter at one place. Told if I did that I might "push her over the edge" at another. Something about "flaking" on the clutch and "drive her till she blows". I wish it could be as simple as the "original" brake booster vacum hose that went and scared the willie's out of me last week. Found the answer to that right here and fixed it myself. Shop probably would have sold me the booster and told me they were throwing in the vacum hose for free! I think if it were a vacum problem it would be all of the time. Fluid level is fine.

Anybody have this problem and if so, tell me it is not big. Otherwise she is going to the barn out back until I win the lottery! She will not bring doodle with a bad tranny anyway.

I know exactly what your up against, since I drive a '84 500 SEL with 280k original miles on the original trans. The issue is the clutch/ friction plates have seen their day as well as the seals inside the trans. Your getting blowby of the fluid that causes the car to shift hard. Also, the spike in the revs is the Wake-Up call you don't want but its there.

Get ready for a new trans, don't waist your money on trying to rebuild yours. There's too many parts that would need to be replaced, such as the drum which is always cracked after that many miles and that many years on it. Bite the bullet and drop the $2000 and get a new reman unit from the guys at Ron's in the Atlanta, Ga area. Put in a new torque converter and new cooling hoses and she'll be as ggod as new And will have a 50,000 mile warrenty too.

Considering all else that's wrong with the car, is it such a good idea to dig $2000 into it? Hey, I'd say, spend $2,500 and buy yourself another 500SEL with lower miles on the car parts.

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1999 Mercedes-Benz S600, 103K miles - garage queen
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL, 89K miles - daily driver
2007 Hyundai Sonata Limited, 31K - daily driver

I guess I knew someone would confirm my fears. Come Monday we will know for sure. I'll drive her another 60 miles one way to the only MB mech. I have known to shoot straight and not take hostages, namely my car. In the mean time, I note that "braverichard" posesses exactly what he tells me I should maybe go look for. She for sale? Just joking! Did find a thread for a 500 SEL for sale N of Dallas. Much closer to my pad. Fellow says first 1000.00 takes her. Probably already gone to the fellow in CA if smog control can be modified. Means there is hope though. Who else but MB could make a $50,000 flagship that could still be reliable 20 years later but sell for less than a tranny rebuild. If I knew how to take her apart I would part her out and get more than I have in her. Thanks for the info and wisdom.

This topic got my attention, because in addition to the local 90' 300 SEL, I am also considering a local 85' 500 SEL. The 85' 500 SEL has 152K and stated to be in perfect running order, but for $5200, I do not want to buy a car that will soon need a tranny. What is the average life for a tranny in a 500 SEL and what are one of the first warning signs for failures? Or- should I ask- how should a 500 SEL "properly" shift? aside from driving a 1984 190 E several years ago, I have never driven a gasoline Mercedes- only diesel and not familair with the shifting. The 300 SD's I have driven had had somewhat jerky shifts and some that where downright harsh. I know that they are not supposed to be as silky smooth as the transmission in the Lexus, but I am not sure how harsh they are supposed to be. I know the transmission in my old 1990 Lexus LS400 was flawless. Even at 235K when I sold it, the transmission shifts were hardly noticable. Really impressive.

Ha ha... nice observation. Actually, my Euro 500SEL is always for sale. I got it in really bad shape for just $1,000, I've been fixing it up bit by bit, and I'll sell it anytime. It sure is a blast to drive. So let me know if you want it LOL. However, my advice to you wasn't an attempt to sell my car though.

Average life of a 500SEL tranny? That's a hard question to answer (at least for me) and here's why. My Euro 500SEL's original transmission started slipping in 4th gear at 145K miles. This transmission was excellently maintained all its life. When I replaced it and pulled the pan, there were a lot of metal shavings in the fluid. All other gears worked except for 4th. But does this mean the transmissions have such a short life expectancy? Not at all. I know two 500SELs that have over 245K on their original, never overhauled transmissions. I also know a 560SEL with 343K miles on the original transmission. I believe that these transmissions should last for at least 300K miles with proper maintenance. I really can't account for the premature wear on my Euro tranny. Maybe the tranny wasn't beefed up enough to handle the extra torque of the Euro engine. I really don't know.

Another thing about these transmissions is that, if you observer enough eBay auctions, you will notice many of those 126s have had their transmissions replaced or rebuilt prematurely. In many cases, the reason for that is due to the failure of the B2 piston inside those transmissions, resulting in no forward gears. When this happens, most owners assume the transmission is history and most service centers declare the transmission dead, when it is actually something that can be fixed for about $100 in parts and two hours of labor. In fact, replacement of this piston is recommended maintenance for all old M-B transmissions and unfortunately, while I am aware of this I haven't yet made out the time to perform those replacements on my transmissions. Another thing that usually results in these transmissions being declared dead is a vacuum leak or malfunction, as they are vacuum controlled. The vacuum specifications eventually need adjustment and especially in the diesels, the transmission may not even shift if there's an issue with the vacuum system.

I too owned an LS400 (a 1992 one) and no, the transmission wasn't that much smoother than the gas M-B transmissions. I understand even the M-B diesel transmissions can be made very smooth with proper vacuum tuning, though I'm sure that would require a lot of work.

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1999 Mercedes-Benz S600, 103K miles - garage queen
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL, 89K miles - daily driver
2007 Hyundai Sonata Limited, 31K - daily driver

Thanks Rich... so the tranny on this 1985 500SEL w/152K I am considering should shift as smooth as the one in my 1990 LS400? Thanks again for the information!

It should shift 90% as smoothly as that in your old LS400. But remember that those M-B trannies start in second gear not first like the LS400.

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1999 Mercedes-Benz S600, 103K miles - garage queen
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL, 89K miles - daily driver
2007 Hyundai Sonata Limited, 31K - daily driver

As stated in my case, this gal went over 257,000 plus whatever we can guess, with nary a slip. Mine only had 2 PO's but they where sort of cheapo Dr.'s who it would appear did not address anything as long as it did not interfere with starting and rolling. I only paid 200.00 for her with all of her quirks. Maybe cost me 1,100.00 in repairs in 3 years. Granted no air ect. but she took me to northern VA 5 times in the same span.

If everything is in the working order claimed,the one you are considering is probably good for a long while yet. I will willingly spend 2,500.00 or so on another because there is not much else I can buy for that price that has the potential to take me as far. Not to mention that this old gal with her age, miles, and "original shocks" is still smoother and quieter on the highway than my husband's 2001 Buick with only 50,000. It may not make logical sense but I love them, this is my second older one, and I am determined to find another. Rather that than my mother's hand me down Quest!

Good luck.

Thanks for the info. I may take a closer look at this 85' 500SEL, or perhaps the local 87' 420SEL- which is priced lower, but seems to be as nice. I was told to RUN away from the 90' 300SEL with the airbag woes. The one I REALLY want is the 81-85 300SD- still looking.

I was going to test drive a 1988 BMW 735iL (extended wheelbase) on Wednesday, but when I told my father, he suggested I stayed away from BMW, considering the problems I had with my old 82' 735i. He proceeded to say that they should be called "BFW" instead of "BMW". I asked why and he said "Bavarian Fire Works". LOL Yes, my previous BMW had its fair share of electrical gremlins! This 88' BMW may be fine, but we have heard of too many horror stories with BMW electrical systems.

If fuel consumption isn't a concern, I'd go for the '85 500SEL. It is a more powerful machine with more luxury than the '87 420SEL. Of course there are other conditions you'd have to factor in such as condition, mileage, etc. However, if both of them were more or less the same in most aspects, I'd go for the 500SEL.

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1999 Mercedes-Benz S600, 103K miles - garage queen
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL, 89K miles - daily driver
2007 Hyundai Sonata Limited, 31K - daily driver

Thanks Rich. The 85' 500 SEL I am interested in is a very nice car, but it is not flawless- not even mentioning that they are asking $5500 for it, and it had 152K miles. I have checked the book value on this car from several sites and most barely value the car over $2000. Whats worse, he does not even know when the timing chain was last replaced. This is the same guy the "specializes" in European makes and stated that this car had the "dual chain", so for me not to fret about the chain possibly breaking- but I have been told otherwise here from someone else- that these can be as easily destroyed as the other single chain cars. He said if I was really interested, he would go over well it with a "fine tooth comb".... The car is very nice though, the paint (like a medium silver?) appears to be original and it is still glossy, but has some blemishes. The car is 100% rust free- not even a speck of rust on the rocker panel holes. The interior is very nice- not even any cracks (yet) on the dash pad. The car has been setting on the lot for a while (as most of his cars have- because of overpricing if you will). It has been in the same spot for at least 10-12 months and when I looked at it again the other day- there were not any drips / spots at all under the car- which is good. It is the USA model (which I prefer) with the airbag option. Very original car- even the wheels are still original- but the radio has been changed- not a big deal. I have found other 500 SEL's much cheaper on the internet, but none local. The 500 SEL's are not located at every car lot here, which is why this one is "luring" me.

The gold 87' 420 SEL is owned by an individual. He said it has a slight transmission leak and no oil leaks/usage that he is aware of. Not sure if the chain has been replaced, but it has a "pile" of service records in the car according to him. He said that the car had a key scratch on the driversise (not a big deal to me). He also said it had ICE COLD A/C and I think it has been converted to 134. This car is about an hours drive up in a mountain community, so I am not anxious to make that drive. He wants $2995 OBO for that car. I think that the car can be bought for $2500.

There is also a local 85 300D, that looks promising- it only has 99K original miles and it is in EXCELLENT condition. They are asking $5200 for it. I just prefer the S-Class body styling.

I do not really know.... I am at a crossroads with these cars. Maybe I should just buy another Toyota?

One thing you'll learn quickly in searching around is that these cars are sold based on their condition not based on some books values set by someone who claims to know how much the car should depreciate. Since the car dealer for the 500SEL doesn't even know when the chain was last replaced, then it sounds like there are no service records for the car, in which case $5,500 is too much to ask. But you said everything else looks good though, so maybe a pre-purchase inspection can help you make a decision. Maybe the person that performs the inspection for you can check for timing chain stretch to reassure you on whether the chain needs urgent replacement or not.

If oil changes were performed religiously in the car's past, with just 152K on the odometer, timing chain break should be the least of your worries. My Euro 500SEL is still on its original timing chain and it actually looks like it is in great condition. Tell me, why do you prefer the US version of the 500SEL?

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1999 Mercedes-Benz S600, 103K miles - garage queen
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL, 89K miles - daily driver
2007 Hyundai Sonata Limited, 31K - daily driver

Thanks Rich. I will probably have it inspected if I decide to go ahead and get it. As mentioned- I really want a 300SD, but like the extended wheelbase on the "SEL". I wish they had of made an extended wheelbase version of the 81-85 300SD .

I keep thinking- if I am going to pay $5000+, perhaps I should really keep looking for a very nice, low mile 81-85 300SD. There was a local 84 300SD listed locally for $4200 in excellent condition, but it had 225K- and I thought that price was a bit steep, despite the good conditions.

I like the USA versions of all of the Mercedes better because I prefer the larger bumpers- which I know many do not. I do not know why, but I have always prefered the larger bumpers.

Thanks again for the tips/advice.

You're very much welcome.

If you really want the longer wheelbase 126, then get yourself a neat 300SDL (1986 - 1988 I believe). The 300SDL has the longer wheelbase, and is even much more efficient and powerful and refined than the 300SDs. The only problem with the 300SDLs is that they have an aluminum head that is prone to cracking if overheated. But provided you never overheat it, you'll really enjoy owning one. Of course I am typing what people who have owned it told me as I have never owned one.

If you prefer the US bumpers, then just find a Euro Spec car and purchase used US bumpers from a junk yard and put them on. When it comes to the gasoline powered cars, the Euro Spec cars always have more power due to different compression ratios, less restrictive emissions requirements, etc. Also, the Euro transmissions start in 1st gear unlike the US transmissions which have to be "floored" in order to initiate the kickdown switch so the transmission can start in 1st gear instead of 2nd. And the Euro cars give you all that more power with just about a 1mpg sacrifice in fuel efficiency versus the US cars.

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1999 Mercedes-Benz S600, 103K miles - garage queen
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL, 89K miles - daily driver
2007 Hyundai Sonata Limited, 31K - daily driver