1985 500SEL - @ a crossroads- need advice
 

Some of you may have read some of my posts of where I have been considering a silver 1985 Mercedes 500SEL. First of all- I think the car is way overpriced at $5,500. Equipped with the driver airbag option- it has 152K miles and is in good condition, but it is far from pristine. It has a small dent on the lower "C" pillar and rear side of the the trunk panel (above the taillamps) seems to be pressed in more than the passenger side- which is actually flush with the quarter panel. Carfax report is good. Shows all it well- no major accidents- car had 99K in 1993. Being a southern car- it is 100% rust free and the paint appears to be original. The car has a very nice passenger cabin- and everything looks to be in near perfect condition. Upon inspection of the under carriage- it too is rust free, but noted some oil seepage. The rear differential had some slight seepage- no drips, but it was damp. There was also some sort of a "vent" hose draped down by the rear axle- it looked like it had been damp at the opening- is this supposed to be there and what is it? Under the engine- around the oil pan gasket- it is a little dark looking, as if that gasket is seeping as well. My main concern is that up from the oil pan- on the driver side- there appears to be a heavier leak- but not yet dripping. Now, the car has been setting for about a year. This car lot (specializes in European cars) does not move a lot of cars- mainly because they are overpriced, but they build track cars as well- so that is where they get most of their business. Another negative, is that there are no service records with the car and the last date of timing chain change is unknown. :(

Now if I do decide I really may purchase this car, I will definitely have it inspected by a reputable mechanic. Seller seems firm on the price. I just hate to pay $5500 for this car, only to have problems down the road....

Has anyone else ever paid more for a Mercedes that you thought it was worth in the beginning?

I do not know whether or not to forget about this car and keep searching, or go ahead and pay the $5500, if the PPI is O.K. :confused:

There is the 87 420SEL, but the owner is shady on the details. For some reason, it has been setting for a while, but stated to still run good- perhaps has a lot of cars. :confused:

What did 84-85 500SEL owners pay for their 500SEL's when they bought them?

Thanks folks!

You are right...It is overpriced.
I have a '88 420SEL for sale with fewer miles, and I am asking for less.
Not only is mine newer, but it has more HP (184 vs. 201) also. Yeah...mine needs the roof and trunk lid painted...but still....compared to the 500SEL you're looking at, mine would be a bargain.
Let me know if you end up buying it anyway... I will have to re-evaluate my asking price if you do. ;)

-Larry

Thanks.

Does anyone have any knowledge about the hose down by the rear axle that I was alluding to?

I will probably have it checked out by a reputable mechanic if I decide I am serious about the purchase, but want to gather as much information as possible before doing so. I guess my main concern is that minor oil seepage/leakage up by the oil pan, but my old 1990 Lexus LS400 also had this appearance and it NEVER dropped below the "full" line on the oil stick between changes, so this may not be a big deal.

He keep assuring me not to fret about the timing chain on the 500, because it has a "dual" chain and he has never heard of one breaking on these, unlike the 380, but I am not familiar with Mercedes cars.

Thanks again for the advice.

I would guess it is the hose that leads from the gas tank fill compartment. It is a drain hose that drains overfill onto the ground :eek: instead of down the side of the car (I am sure it is really to drain water away from that compartment when it rains or when the car is washed).

Guess that is possible. Thanks.

Well, I am pretty sure I will at least go and drive the car and have it inspected at a local shop.

I just am very hesitant about paying $5500 for a 20 year old Mercedes, even if it is in very good shape with 152K.

Still looking around, so will have to wait and see.

I'm pretty sure it's a gray market car. You may want to take that into consideration as well.

Other more knowledgeable folks will know more about this than I do.

Hello. What makes you think it is a gray market car?

It has the large bumpers, and MPH speedometer.

:D 86560SEL,

You seem to have waay more patience than I'll ever have. Just spent the last 30 minutes checking out your old threads... you've been at this for several months!!

Tell you what, to end your thorough search, I'll sell you my '84 Euro 500SEL for $2,500. Once you add another $2,000 ($500 for the front leather seats, $500 for the rear suspension, $150 for an excellent detail job on the entire car, $500 - $800 on a timing chain replacement), you'll be having an excellent machine! How's that? You can't beat the value, considering the low miles and over $20,000 spent on maintenance and repairs over the life of the car (yeah, I have all the receipts, even including the one that shows the shipment agreement for its importation from Germany). You'll get a car with new brakes all around, new ABS module, master cylinder, water pump, transmission, etc. :rolleyes: Plus you get that powerful Euro engine. Nothing beats that!! :D And besides, nothing's better than buying a car from a fellow forum member. Much better than eBay or a dealer lot. ;)

1990 560sel
 

My neighbor has a 1990 560SEL he wants to sell for about the same price.
It is taupe with parch interior. Nice shape. Let me know if you want his email address. North Atlanta is not too far from East Tenn.

Ya see... Told ya it was overpriced :D

As far as it being a Euro...See if it has hydropneumatics shocks up front. If it does, do a search here on them, and then start putting money aside for the day when you have to replace/repair them.

Do a search for fellow member fz500SEL and check out his signature....

If you do end up buying it, let us know.... and take some pics! :)

I've never heard of a Euro W126 with hydroneumatics up front. They were only available for the rear as far as I know.

Thanks for the additional replies. I really do not think it is a Euro model. I do not see anything that suggests that. I have the VIN #- can someone read that and be able to tell me just from that?

I agree, I think that $5500 is too much, but when I look at 90s Honda Accords, Toyota Camrys priced at least that and more- it does not seem so bad. Also- it seems to be in excellent shape, so for those saying $5500 is too much- is that too much even if the car is in excellent condition & in perfect working order? If I had the assurance of buying this car @ this price- knowing that I would not have any problems with it for at least a year- I would be more comfortable paying that for it. About the timing chain- I phoned one of our local Mercedes repair/sales specialists to get an estimate of a timing chain replacement on one a 85' 500SEL. I have been told here that it is a $1000+ replacement, but I was quoted the price of $493.00 - which includes parts and labor of the chain and tensioner on this car. I have to call another shop tomorrow, as they are checking the price of this for me.

My other main concern is the minor (seeping) oil leak coming down from the front part of the oil pan. It is not dripping, there are no leak spots under the car, but it has a damp look to it. Someone said here it was $1500 to repair? That is why I have not purchased it yet. If I recall when I talked to him last- I think he said it had some clunking with the front suspension, but was planning on having this repaired. Perhaps bad bushings/struts.

The car was moved inside the garage today, as were a few other cars that were also out on the lot. The hood was raised, so perhaps they were changing the oil or something- or detailing it.

I searched traderonline.com for 1984-1985 500SEL's. Prices ranged from $1200 to $25000. The $25000 had high miles- I have no idea what they thought they had. The average price was $3000-$4500. NONE where really close to me. The closest ones were 5-7 hours away from here. One was $2995 and the other was $3995.

In addition- the NADA price on these cars seems too high-
low retail - $6550
average retail - $8700
high retail - $11700

:confused:

Yes.

All US Spec VINs start with WDB followed by letters of the alphabet then numbers and alphabets mixed. Euro Spec cars have VINs that start with either WDB following by the chassis number and then a sequence of alphanumeric characters or the VIN starts with just the chassis number followed by the alphanumeric characters. Confused yet? Just post the VIN and I'll tell you if it is a Euro Spec car or not.

Those Camry's and Accords are still NEWER with better safety features and things like that. Whether we admit it or not, they are worth more than the gas V8 Benz you're looking at. $5,500 is too much to pay for a 500SEL that's in good shape. I paid $4,700 for my 300SD because there simply wasn't any in good shape and with as low miles as mine had to be found anywhere when I purchased it. The 300SD is much harder to find in excellent condition than the 500SEL, at least when I got mine. Also, at this point in time you can obtain many 500SELs in great shape for a lower price. BUT, if you're fine with paying $5,500 then by all means go ahead and buy it.

Believe me,you WILL spend money on this car in the first year. Guaranteed. At least $1,000. Before I get deep into this, do you have any maintenance records on this car? Because, normally in the first year you will spend money getting the car up to speed on maintenance items. My 300SD, which was in excellent shape when I purchased it, ended up needing two repairs in the first year (alternator and master cylinder) but I did a lot of parts replacements as part of maintenance. I don't think you can easily get away with not spending any money on this car in the first year.

Your price quote on the timing chain makes sense. $1,000 is way too much to pay for that job. Regarding the oil leak, you really have to get a PPI in order to determine what it is. It could just be a minor leak, or an old leak that was fixed but the traces of the leakage were never washed off. You never know. You can only tell from a PPI as performed by someone who knows these cars very well. And you mentioned some clunking in the front suspension: all these tiny issues and you say the car is in excellent condition? Good condition maybe, but excellent? You really need to get a PPI done before you even know if it is something you want to buy. And oh, regarding those NADA figures, they aren't true market value figures. Condition is what sells these cars. We all know they are million-mile machines :D so the prices they fetch depend on condition not what NADA says.

Well it is a 21 year old W126 with out a service history on a used car lot. It does have expensive issues and will probably cost you money. The oil leak is the least of your problems. 20 year old stuff will leak, a lot usually. I bet the power steering return lines are shot.

How about the suspension? Figure $1,500 their to rebuild the front end and do some work to the rear.

Brakes? I bet they are close to due. Figure a few hundred their.

The radiator and all of the hoses are probably original.

Flex discs?

If the engine mounts are close to original they are shot.

Tranns could blow, all bets are off at 20 years.

Just buy any old car expecting to put money into it. You have to want an old MB and be willing to put up with old car stuff to own one.

Just re-read your original post, so it has no service records!! I'd be walking right now if I were you.

Thanks for the replies. As much as I like the 500SEL, from what I have read, I guess I will pass on it and perhaps buy another 90s-2000s Toyota or Honda.

Braverichard- thanks for the info on the (Euro vs. USA mode) I understand:
Yes, then it is a USA model, as the VIN is:
WDBCA37D8FA169754 (letters after WDB)

Yes, I was thinking that the price was high to begin with- as well as many here and after speaking to my uncle (who ironically sold BRAND NEW Mercedes, BMW's, Jaguars and Porsches from 1983-1987) said that $5500 was way too much, I know for sure now. He said that $3000 was a good price for a 85' 500 SEL.

It is not as simple as finding another, because for some reason, the mid 80s Mercedes S-Class sedans are not that popular here. There are a lot of 190s, 300s, E-Class, and a few of the later 80s S-Class etc however. The population in the metro area is about 160,000 and rust is NOT an issue, so I have no idea why they are rare. I guess they were probably more rare initially. Seems like most are in cities with populations over 300,000- which is rational. The closest two I have found (on traderonline) are in Memphis ($2900) and Richmond ($3995). My uncle lives in Richmond (one I was asking about the car), so I may go up there and take a look. There are several at the local Mercedes specialists, as well as the Mercedes dealer, but they too are priced outrageous.

Actually, a local 87' 420 SEL just came available for $2995 OBO, so I may check it out. Would a timing chain replacement on this car be about the same as the 500 SEL? Also- the local "Benz Haus" has a 90' 420 SEL I am going to phone about tomorrow- it has 105K, but is in excellent shape (really excellent on this one), but unsure of the price, but may be worth the extra cost for a good one. This one is stated to have all records too. Also, just found a 88' 560 SEL for $3000- it is about 300 miles away - should consider that one too, but I am weary of the rear suspension on these. Another local dealer that specializes in older foreign luxury cars, also has a 1993 300E 2.8, for $4900, but I noticed it has a small oil leak dripping under it. :eek:

You are right- the 85' 500 SEL has no records. I may have been wrong when I said "excellent" - perhaps body and interior wise it is excellent, especially for a 1985 model.

Well, thanks again for helping me make a decision- you may have just prevented me from making a $5500 mistake. I would have been really upsey if I had of paid $5500 for this car, only to have to put $3000+ more into it.

I may be wrong though - I guess it is possible that all of the things that Hattaras mentioned could be wrong on a car this old, may have already been addressed, but even if so, I think that $5500 is more than I want to go for a gas model. If I go $5500- I would rather go for a diesel. There was a local 84' 300SD a while back for $4200, but with 220K, I thought this was too much as well. Now I really wish I had of reconsidered that one too.

So, if I do not soon find a fairly local, nice and reasonably priced Mercedes, or the 87 420 or 88 560, I may just go ahead and buy a Honda or Toyota now and perhaps consider a Mercedes later on- keep on searching.

Would you consider a 1988 560 SEL a typically better car than a 1985 500 SEL? I know that the 560 has the rear air suspension, so....

Read a lot of posts about timing chain snaps on the 420, is this also well known on the 560?

Thanks again!

Yes. Timing chain problems are just as common on the 560 as the 420. They are both V-8s. There is not a lot of problems with the chains breaking, but with the guides (plastic) becoming brittle and snapping off. The piece then gets lodged between the chain and sprocket and causes the engine to "jump time" which causes the valves to come into contact with the piston(s).

I would seriously consider the '90 420. Not only are the miles lower but it has a complete service history. Most people who bother with keeping the service history take very good care of their cars. You can also see what was done to the vehicle ie: timing chain. If it was done already you have an extra $1500 in which you didn't have to spend on that job. Also, the 420 does not have the hydraulic rear suspension to deal with. On a recent trip to Georgia I got 23 mpg with mine with 4 adults and luggage - going 70-75. Around town is not so good but I average about 17-18 mpg.

The post 85 W126's are an improvment over the pre 85 ones. Then newer engines have more power and parts are seem to be a little cheaper and more common.

Try looking for a W126 like this:
Private party, avoid used car dealers.
Full service hsitory
no rust or accidents
overall the car is in very nice shape with eveidence that the owner has been putting money into it updating stuff.

Nice W126's in my area seem to go for $5k-$10k.

Mint ones can fetch mid teens to even close to twenty.

Anything is going to need work but under $5k cars at used car lots will probably need more.

I looked at a sad '86 560SEL the other day. The interior was in bad shape - seats cracked, wood trim missing on the dash and some doors (laminate had seperated leaving only aluminum exposed), filthy inside, etc.
the paint was in bad shape for the year and mileage (180,000). Green coolant and there was a vacuum when I took the cap off the tank. Oil leaks gallore - so bad that it slung it on the hood pad, which was satturated. Wheels were flaking or the paint completely gone on some...
Guy said, "Yeah, she runs real good!" You should have seen how fast I ran...

He wanted $3500 for it. I told him it would make a good parts car. I didn't even start it it looked so sad.

Wow- after reading that - does not make the 85' 500 sound so bad of a deal. :)

The 88' 560SEL I was considering on E-Bay appeared to be a very nice car. It had 151K miles. It was a "no reserve" auction and it sold for only $2550. :eek: No records either, but sounded OK, but I was weary about buying another car unseen.

The 87 420SEL I was mentioning is a private owned car- I think he would take $2500 for it if I offered it. It has 178K if I recall. Slight transmission leak according to the owner. New A/C recently converted to 134. Everything works save for the left rear window.

Benzboy also mentioned $1500 for a timing chain replacement - does it vary that much by location/shop? One of our local Benz repair specialists quoted me a price of $493 to replace the chain and tensioner (parts and labor) on the 85' 500SEL. Or is it About $1000 more to have it changed on a 87 420 vs. a 85 500?

I may also check on that 90 420, if the price is right.

I think you will find the '90 420 nicer ... The seats and doorpanels have different stitching (more up to date), and the radio will be also vastly improved as they have a 10 speaker set up. In general I find that the newer 126's are much more refined than you would expect in 5 years. (ie 85 vs. 90)

I'm looking forward to hear about the 90 SEL...

(Good luck!)

-Larry

Thanks. This 1990 appears to be a fine automobile. I will know more when I find out the price.

I actually like the 1984-1985 500SEL better than the 86-91 S-Class sedans - why? I do not know exactly, but for one thing the front styling on the 81-85 models appeal to me a bit more.

Here are some photos of the 1990 420SEL, as well as a photo of the 1987 420SEL following.

And here is the 1987 420SEL that I can get for around $2500.

Also, the 1993 300E 2.8 (172K) for $4995, but it has that oil leak. I looked at it again tonight and while no drips under it, there is a cover under the engine compartment that was hanging down a bit. I was able to see parts of the top of it and it was very oily. Looked like "over the years dirt covered" oil if you will. Other than that- it is stated to have all records. It is in excellent conditions throughout. Photo of it to follow later

Why don't you buy that 420SEL? That looks like a nice clean car from the pics. The engine is clean that means a lot, the battery is an OE another good sign. PPI it and pull the trigger that looks like a good one.

Nice color combo too!

Yes, it appears to be a nice car. The dealer calls it "black pearl". I personally have never seen this color on them before.

Strange, this was the only Mercedes they had listed that did not mention a price. They had a 1995 300 wagon for $10,000, that was in excellent shape, so I would like to think they want $6-7K for this car, but knowing this dealer, I would not be suprised if they are asking $10K for it. I will phone them tomorrow to find out.

I was just scanning the ads in the local paper and spotted a LOW mile, 1-owner, w/all records 1985 190E for $3300 OBO. I really prefer the S-Class over the 190, but if it is a good car..... :confused:
Will phone about that one tomorrow as well.

I have seen an SDL in the color, it is a neat color.

I would have no problem paying $6k-$8k for that car if:
1. It looks as good in person as in the pics
2. their is a maintaince history
3. A PPI turns nothing major up.

Use the PPI to work on the price a bit, thats one of the reasons you want one.

Thanks. I will definitely consider it- if it checks out OK- up to about $6500-$7000.

BTW- here is a photo of a 1985 500SEL identical to the one I am/was considering here locally- except the one here locally is silver.

I agree with Hatterasguy. It looks even nicer in the photos than I imagined.

Only question now, it the price...

what does everyone expect
 

Have not been here in a while, grandbaby, kids ect., but am trying to figure out what everyone expects from a 2 decades old mercedes!! Since my last post almost a month ago "Faded Glory" has done Mardi Gras in full dress,(6 parades in 5 days), school car pool, daily errands to the nearest major town 20 miles away, a 2 goat "pick-up", and for all of her "shabbiness" still exzudes class!! The styling of these years are classic to me. Don't have to see the hood ornament to know what it is! It must be in her genes!!

Anyway, seems to me that 86560SEL should just get off of the "fence" and make a move. Most 20 year old cars are going to have "leaks" and "record issues". Just picture how many that age of any make that are "not" still rolling. Buried a few myself! You want garauntees of not spending money above the purchase price, buy a "new car"! Just pray it will take you 275,000+ miles(mine is not a deisel) without a major break-down no matter what maintence you do. Don't think there are many that fill that bill.

I comment not to encourage the abuse of a top class car, but to state that they are not known as top class cars because of their "finickiness". These are the most common "cabs" where my husband is from, the middle-east. What cab company would use high overhead, short life expectancy, "finicky" vehicles for it's fleet? Considering what they make as "cabbies", they need "warhorses" and that is what Mercedes are. The reputation of lasting forever is not ill-earned. Mine has been running on store brand fluids and the ever ominous non-MB coolant for over 3 years now. Yet I know it will start and run tomorrow better than than I know the 2001 Buick will.

Get over the idea that when you buy a MB you are buying a "sensitive thoroughbred". If you can treat it as such, by all means do so but if you can't, know that it is the proverbial "mule" that will not quit. Mules are much better at heavy work than thoroughbreds. Don't know about newer models like the ones without a dip-stick(is this an attempt to make us dealer dependant?) but can tell you the older ones are "no frills" and "common sense" friendly. Have had 2 of them. If you have to spend 2,500 over purchase to bring one of these up to expectation, you have still beat a new-used car purchase and will probably get as many miles out of it.

Just tired of reading posts that imply these are "picky" cars that require immaculant records for their 20 years of life when almost no other make that year is still running.Give them the respect that is due from their engineering that has given them the reputation for longevity. They have their faults like window control switches on shift consoles where everyone parks their much needed coffee because of no cup holders. (Ever had a window that rolled down and then would not roll-up? Check on cleaning the switch!) Overall, they meet their reputation for long life and dependability.

86560SEL, take the plunge and quit sitting the fence! Once you get one, even an old one, you will not want to drive anything else! Mine still rides better than the 2001 Buick and would kick it's back bumper on demand!!

I too think 86560SEL should make a move as this has gone on for a very long time. However, I have to sort of disagree with you on the fact that we shouldn't be too picky on these cars. Some of them command stratopheric prices and when faced with such, you just have to be picky! There are many components to a car and other than using records to see how well the car has been taken care of, the records kind of tell you what stage those components are at. I remember, since I didn't know any service details of my now sold Mazda 929, I decided to change the timing belt as it was at the mileage for that maintenance job and since the engine is an interference type, I didn't want to take chances. However, upon performing that task, I noticed that the belt was brand new and had just been changed prior to my purchasing the car! What a waste of time and money that was.

Thier is a difference between having a nice old MB and a beater. I am in the process of having a neglected W126 bleed me. These cars will eat $200 parts at will if they want to, heck my blower motor is in the process of dieing. Sure these are tough cars that can suffer a lot of abuse but if you abuse one I feel bad for the next owner.

However I too think 86560SEL should get off the fence and figure out what he wants. These are old cars they will have their far share of issues, you cannot cross shop them with a newer Honda.

agree in part with both
 

Have to agree in part with both replies except that 5,000 or so is not an astronomical figure unless you are looking at a Yugo. (Must admit that in my household it is up there but you do tend to get what you pay for.) Seems it will not buy you much more dependability in the 10 year old used car market, other makes that is, and even then, they will not be the same class of car.

At 20 years most are going to be "beaters" and will probably never see a "next owner". Run across one that indicates otherwise, jump on it. Run across a "perfect" one, then you are probably like me and cannot afford it. Fluid leaks are nothing compared to poor shifting trannies, spikes in RPMs, A/C problems, ect. If these things work right and it shows soundness in the test drive, trust your instincts.

You can't own the average car in this age bracket without having the idea that you may be the one to send her to the "junk-yard in the sky"! Most of them are not going to out-live us so it is a given they will leave us through last-ditch sale or death. The question then will be "What did it cost me to operate?" Mine costs me 35.00 a month(Gieco) to insure with 100,000/300,000/100,000 liabilty insurance, very high limits compared to my state's requirements. Still the lowest of the 3 on my policy. Kind of cheap if you consider that anything I might hit will "know it". Other factor is that there are so few of her siblings still running, their statistics of "involvement" are extremely low.

My "Indie" is 45.00 an hour and will let me bring my own parts that it seems I can usually find for less than him. (Gotta love the inter-net!!) At this age I do not look for OEM parts with life-time warranties because it is almost assured that the part is going to out-live most of the car. In a sense, I am giving her her last gasp at glory and I will know when it is time to lay her to rest. In hindsight, "Faded Glory" has cost me less than husband's MIT. Montero and daughter's Toyota! Her only shortcoming is her penchant for gas stations! (Price you pay for 8 cyl. power on demand!) When I say "Let's go!", she is there despite all of her other issues! Still 20 mpg. on hi-way if I don't harass her. Don't ask about in-town, she would make you cry and buy a "Yugo" or ride a bike! All in all, she gives me my money's worth even though I do not ask her to be the car of her "youth" that very few of any kind her age can be! If I had paid 10x's more (would have been 2,000) it would still have been worth the 3 years of operation I have had. Must note...,still rolling as we speak!

86560SEL, do not think you would have gone terribly wrong on any of the ones you have noted just have to wonder if your expectations are too high for the conditions.

I like your approach of just giving the car its "minimal" needs. Basically, you just try to keep the car rolling day after day with no plans to do anything that will supposedly help it for a very long time -- considering the car could end up at the junk yard any day. However, I read from the old mbz.org lists about a guy who bought an old diesel for just $900 with a broken odometer that read 290,000 miles. Since he didn't expect the car to last long and didn't want to throw too much money at it, he refused to fix the odometer. Seven years later the car is still kicking and he finally decided to get a new odometer since the car refuses to die. These vehicles are tough!

AZUREBLUE said: Mine costs me 35.00 a month(Gieco) to insure with 100,000/300,000/100,000 liabilty insurance, very high limits compared to my state's requirements.
________________________________________________________________
You may be insured for more than your state requirements but that amount of insurance if totally inadequate. If you are in an accident that is your fault and kill or severely injure someone a judgement will be issued against you and the 100/300/100 won't even begin to cover the amount. One million dollars is the bare minimum liability coverage you should have. And it costs just a few dollars more than what you are paying now. Call your agent today and upgrade your auto liability coverages.

Thanks for ins. tip
 

Rockman59, thanks for the tip on my ins. Truth is, I had no idea that you could buy such high liability limits and if you are correct about the small increase in premium, it would explain why my carrier has never tried to "sell" me such a policy since they would have to honor it if I ever was the cause of catastrophy. Will definitely be looking into into it.

That was my point
 

Braverichard,felt like I may have upset you and never meant to do that. Burns me up that I can't throw the money I would like to at my old beater. Some might even feel like you have no business owning one if you can't. I dream of returning her to her former glory and would if I could even though I could never sell her for what it would cost to do so. Not a very practical view, but I would be content if it was the last car I ever drove. Those of us on the low end of ownwership love them as much as those driving the new ones.

As you said, they are "tough" and that is why I am able to get away with minimal care. It is also why I feel 86560SEL needs to get past feeling indecisive and Just Do It! Do not think (she?) would be too far wrong on any of the ones that have been mentioned. If I had the money, I would have already bought one (maybe even yours) or put in Faded Glory.