New 560SEL - Questions
 

Hi Folks

Just got a new white 1989 560 SEL. First Benz owned - have been a diehard Volvo man for many years. I have just a few questions about the car as of now (Apr. 18) and would appreciate any help.

1. While the Title and Vin come back to a 1989 420 SEL the chrome attachement on the back says 560 SEL. Are these interchangeable? All references online say the car is a 420 but the dealer and former owner insist it is a 560 SEL.

2. I have a very noticeable 'shimmy' or front end waggling as the car decelarates from 50 - 75 mph. It occurs when brakes are applied but all service records show significant front end work within last two ears. Four new 92004) tires also at 36 lbs. psi all around. Front end alignment or brake problem?

he car runs beautifully otherwise and except for a few small issues, power buttons, onw window won't roll up. broken headlight bracket, I am very happy.

Thanks in advance

John

The vin number indicates if it is a 420 or 560. The 560 vin number starts with WDBCA39 while the 420 vin number starts with WDBCA35. The 560 SEL on the back does not mean anything since the previous owner might changed the 420 SEL with a 560 SEL. Also one way to tell is the 560 have hydraulic suspension with the container containing oil located on the drive side of the engine. Also the air breather on the 560 SEL has air ducks on both sides.

Now as for the 'shimmy' it is most likely caused by warped Rotors.

I'd go by what the vin says. Or you could get the serial number off the engine and I'm sure the dealer could run that.

You never know what people do over the years, it could have started out as a 420 and someone stuck an M117 into it.

It could easily be a 420 re-badged as a 560. That would be the most likely answer.

1989 420 or 560 SEL IMHO the best MB's ever built.
Just wonder why you have 560 on the trunk, perhaps pervious owner thought it would give him more prestige or imaginary power. :D
In any respect, welcome, many of the electrical bugs on these rigs come down to switches needing cleaned or new wireing /fuses.
Let us know how we can help
Is your shimmy when you apply brakes only , or other times. Could be bearing, bad tire, tie rod, brakes, shocks, ect ect
Ron

quickest way to see if you have a 420 or a 560 is by:

a) check to see what kind of wood you have. If you have burlwood(dark color wood with "birdseye" appearance) then its a 560. If you have zebrano(wood with parallel stripes) then you have a 420.

b) Open the hood and see how many "snorkels" you have going to the airfilter. If you have one on each side(2 total) then its a 560. If you only have one snorkel to the airfilter.. then its a 420.

Sorry to hear you *might* have gotten duped into a 420 when you thought you're gettting a 560.

When I was at the dealer it was very common for people with 300 and 420 SEL's to order and have us install 560 badges. Check you vin.

John Roncallo

Post your VIN and we'll help you tell what you own.

Stuff
 

Thanks guys.

Haven't checked the engine yet for hints on model but the problem slowing down is far more important now.

The car runs solid and straight. But ... when I apply the brakes (exiting a hiway i.e.) from about 70mph to 50 mph the steering wheel shakes violently - far more than a "shimmy". This is a bit scary. the service records show a 'brake job' less than two years ago. I have filled each GoodYear with 36psi.

A friend suggested warped rotors as a most likely cause. It does not seem to do this without brakes being used.

JB

Also, does this damned car have a glove-box?! Where they usually go is the airbag and all I can find for storage (with a key) is the center console. Is that the only glove box in the car?

The passenger-side airbags were an option in 1989, and if selected they were installed where the glove box would normally be. So the center console box is your only storage I'm afraid.

-gil

Your friend is right. Yes you have wraped rotors. 2 years is a long time.

IMHO i would rather have the airbag than the glove box. It's so tiny anyway.

It sounds like your rotors are shot. Your brake fluid is due for a change as well.

If the wheels shakes when you apply the brakes your front rotors are warped. If you can feel the shake in your seat it is the rears.

Your shimmy problem might be being amplified by a worn out steering shock and worn out control arm bushings. on my 124 this was the case, it shook VIOLENTLY when braking on occaision and scared the hell out of me. Felt like I had left a wheel loose. I haven't done the bushings yet, but I did replace the steering shock and the heavy shaking during braking is gone.

I've seen cars w/ the lower control arm bushing shake Quite violently..Could be exacerbating warped rotors. I would get the car up a rack w/ a reputable shop in your area (ie, not the dealer..).

Again, if you post your VIN there are a number of us who could tell you exactly what it is you're driving, myself included.

Jonathan

[QUOTE=Sagittarius]Thanks guys.

hiway i.e.) from about 70mph to 50 mph the steering wheel shakes violently - far more than a "shimmy". This is a bit scary. the service records show a 'brake job' less than two years ago. [QUOTE]


Probably rotors, 2 years for front rotors is scary alone, let alone these may also be thin and potentially dangerous.
Other parts as well should be checked. Only way to do it properly is on a lift and check each ball joint, strut ect..

Warped rotors? Find a cause.
 

The MB rotors have a service thickness and a repair thickness. It is very unlikely they warped from heat unless they were worn out when the brake job was done. Any competent mechanic can check for the thickness. If lug bolts were over torque, it could warp rotors. There is no time or mileage limit, only thickness. You should have your whole front-end checked by a professional if you cannot do it yourself.

VIN and ...
 

My VIN is WDBCA35E2KA471014

I'm becoming more and more sure this is a 420 SEL with the 560 tag stuck on. It's a fine damned car and I'm happy with it but can't imagine why anyone would bother to hide the model # and why my dealer. (used cars) would also be duped,

I will have rotors checked asap. Thanks for the replies.

JB

You have a 420SEL. But it is possible that one of the previous owners put a 5.5 litre V8 into it, which would (to some) justify a 560 badge.

to quote Snibble:

"Open the hood and see how many "snorkels" you have going to the airfilter. If you have one on each side(2 total) then its a 560. If you only have one snorkel to the airfilter.. then its a 420."

If they upgraded to the 5.5L, I would assume they would have both snorkels.

-gil

420 For Sure
 

OK, the wood, the snorkels (1), the VIN,, etc.

I have a 420 marked as a 560. I still can't understand why anyone would do that - must have slapped that chrome thingy on the back.

So now, as a still devoted older Volvo lover, my question is: Is the 560 that much 'better' than a 1989/90 420? What's the difference? Seems I have all the bells and whistles I would ever need (except that glove box) and it sure looks nice.

Took a longish ride yesterday 1st time (120 miles) and some observations.

The car has far too much wheel play. 2-3 inches before catching. definite pull to left. seats go up down sideways crooked backwards forwards - but still can't find a comfortable position.

My Volvo 940 Turbo 4 cylinder is way faster than the 8 cyl. Benz - but the Benz is a mighty solid ride. (gas pedal too small - )

I like it. 420 or not.

I don't think the dealer was duped as they trade cars for a living, so it seems incomprehensible that they trust the badge more than the VIN. If anything, you may have a case against the dealer for false representation. But then, glad you like the car either way -- the W126 is a very solid build.

Other than the size of the engine (4.2 litre vs 5.5 litre) and some interior amenities (heated, reclining rear seat) there's not much difference - same w126 frame, wheel base, front seats, climate control, etc.

You can search the forum for more specifics, but either way the 420 is a great car and 100% old-school Mercedes Benz through and through.

IIWY I would get a 420SEL badge and replace the 560 one with it.

-gil

I love my 420. I have a friend that has an identical 560 and I drive it quite often. I don't see that much difference in power (and her's has a new engine with less than 15,000 on it) and I don't have the headache of the hydraulic rear suspension that is on the 560. Both are excellent cars. I agree with the previous post - ditch the 560 emblem and replace it. Call me a purist but doing that to a car just seems wrong - look at all the hassle you have been through. Imagine what could happen if you take it to a shop and someone puts a 560 part on the car (even though a lot of the parts are the same for both cars, someone could be confused)?

Sagi - You need a steering box rebuild.
 

Factory tollerance is about 3/4 of an inch of play before it needs adjustment. I f yours is that bad, it most likely cannot be adjusted and needs to be rebuilt. Good luck with your car. I would like a 126 myself as they are the last of the great ones.

the 420 is better car in my opinion, less to go wrong. The play is in the steering box, some adjustments possible, but RR is best, approx, 300-400$
Old MB's not known for comfortable seats by todays standards, some people simply cannot get comfortable them.

Sounds to me like we have a new W126 expert on the forum!! :dancefool :dj: :huepfenic

You've been quite busy Gil. In two months and three days you've made 86 posts. That's much better than I have! :cool:

Later,

Richard

Aw, c'mon Richard - everything I know I learned from you!

:rolleyes2

Isn't that the beauty of knowledge? My father always says that knowledge is the only thing in life you can give out without losing! So if I'm the expert and I taught you all that, then we have a new expert on board! Right?!? :D

Hey Sagittarius,

How about badging your car in the classic MB way? Let's see... that would be a 420SEL on the left rear, and then a 5.6 badge on the right rear. Meaning you have a car that's normally a 420SEL but with a 560SEL engine. That's the way MB used to badge those car back in the early '90s. That'd be cool!! :cool: