How were DIY'ers fixing cars 15 years ago ?
 

Eventhough It's not a 'technical question', I am posting it here as it is directly related to the technology forum...

With all of the members here who are DIY'ers heavily relying upon the advice of other members, I am very curious to know how the information was being passed around 15 years ago or so when the internet forums werent so readily available and internet usage wasn't as common.
Having forums like this give us a sort of comfort level while owning an old benz, knowing there would be others to consult incase of problems.
Were the dealerships and indy shops basically generating great revenue in the absence of such forums and owners without much advice from others ?
just curious...

Things were simpler then. Still, we did more dive in and learn the hard way. Also, more folks relied on books.

Yes, books were available then!

ALSO there weren't computers controlling every item on those cars!

I'll tell you, it's only been the last 4 years or so that I started working on cars again...because of these forums.

Books really can't troubleshoot...and that's what I am not vary capable of....

The experienced people here bail me out in that arena..and your feedback gives me the confidence to get through a job.

Mods,
would it be possible to bring in and combine the other post (url below) to this one that's ongoing. we can delete the post in the open discussion forum.
thnx.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=132887

Back in 1990 we were mechanics, not "technicians". Fuel injection systems were mechanical ( for the most part anyway ), transmissions were mechanical/hydraulic, climate control was pneumatic, etc. You could take things apart and see with your own eyes what was happening. In other words, anyone with a little knowledge and a lot of patience could figure out how things were supposed to work. The biggest difference between a professional and a DIY'er was the amount of time it took to do the job. Both could do quality work. Nowadays, due to the lack of technical expertise or diagnostic equipment, most DIY'ers can't even attempt some jobs.


If someone told me fifteen years ago that things would be the way they are today I wouldn't have believed them. Still, the technology used in modern MB's is amazing, although it's understandable that some find it a bit intimidating.

Speak for yourself. 15 years ago, I worked for Cadillac. Digital fuel injection, On-board diagnostics you could access without a scan tool (including climate control paramaters) with freeze-frame data. Multiple computer modules with a data buss. Everything from the alternator to the 'Trunk Lid Ajar' message controlled by computer. Interior lights that only worked when it was dark enough to need 'em. Semi-active suspension. Etc.

and that explains a lot about cadillac... :pukeface:

It's a well known fact, as we get older we experience diminishing intelligence, i.e. we get more stupid.
Hence, 15 years ago we were sooooooooo much smarter. :D

Hardly. Caddy stuff works. Compare to the balky bells and whistles on MBs the last 15 years. :rolleyes:

I wonder how many of those 15 year old Cadillacs are still running today.

That's exactly the stuff (actually the lack of reliability of that stuff) that earned Caddy their horrendous reputation for quality. A reputation they are still struggling to overcome.

What's a real tragedy, is that same "bells & whistles" approach is what's dragged MB down to the sorry state they're in today.

Jeff Pierce

Back then you could get a shop manual for any car. Now you get "sorry, no books any more, but for a bunch of money you can get a POS CD rom with nothing useful in it." Not progress.

Mike

A quick look through E-bay pulled up plenty. I'd suspect they are no better than MBs at surviving neglect, though.

Scarey thought: The Allente has become a collectors item.

I would hate to have to keep all that electronic clap-trap working on an old car. I'm afraid that current MBs will be just as bad in 15 years. With any luck, I'll still be driving my 123s :) .

Not quite. The killers were things like the Cimmaron and the HT4100 engine. The electronics weren't nearly the issue that re-badged chevys and tin-can engines were. And the Allante. I try to forget those.

I've no experience with late-model benzs, other than what I read here. But the needless complexity of the climate control in my '89 leads me to believe there's plenty room for improvement.

I'm spoiled because auto electronics is my thing. Leads to some bizzare stuff, though. Like the digital insturment cluster that would rack up the mileage at a 50 mph pace while sitting still, or the DeVille that stalled when the door was opened. Both were the result of somebody screwing something up, and not an integeral 'feature' of the car. But that didn't help me fix 'em. :rolleyes:

Wow, even old auto electronics give me a headache (but I can usually figure it out if I have to). I'm just afraid of having to buy a $1000 black box every-time something stops working.

gee
 

15 years ago. 1990. i had a 83 300dt. did basic stuff myself. books. of course no internet.

now 40 years ago, i had a 1960 simca, my first car. paid 200 for it and it was 4 years old. great first car since the engine blew up twice and the tranny twice before i gave up on it. learned all the basics. it drove nice...slow but good handling, good brakes and best of all...the front seats laid flat like a rambler at the pull of a lever.
lets see...i didnt even have a book. i just took things off til i found something wrong. my dad was a pretty fair mechanic and helped when i got stuck.

times change. cars still have four wheels and i still have 123 benzes.

tom w

I didn't bother following the rest of this thread thru, so my comment now may be redundant.

I remember hearing on the radio a few months ago that the luxury car with the worst customer satisfaction rating was Cadillac.

POS.

cadies
 

were really good high quality cars in the thirties forties and early fifties. i had several early fifties during my caddie phase. (in the eighties) the 53 was the high point in my mind. after that they pretty much stagnated mechaniclaly for decades and concentrated on style, becoming lower wider longer and driving less well and not getting any better from an engineering point. my 53 was a fast reliable and supremely comfortable car even in the eighties. it was better than a benz on the highway. ride performance and braking were good even by 80s standards. fuel economy was too at 18 to 19 on highway. steering was completely numb unless it was manual then it was very good but heavy to park. only the cornering sucked really bad. stylish too. i loved the fuel filler hidden in the taillight. and i loved the look of the tailfin taillights.

tom w

It would appear that you heard wrong. :rolleyes:

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/1808/jdpower0aj.gif

How sweet it was.
 

My first VW engine rebuild. I didn't know jack squat about auto machanics, but the manuals you could get where so informative you couldn't lose. And then of course the guys at the auto parts stores were another endless source of knowledge. I think most of them back 20 years ago were usually retired from actual garage work. Now going to an auto parts store is like going to Home Depo, just try to ask one of the kids that work in the plumbing department for a half to quater inch reducer in copper and watch the blank look come across their face. Any way it was really exciting when that first engine came to life.

An old geezer remembers.....
 

An interesting question. Looking back at my checkered career as a DIY (No, I don't mean Checker Cabs), I remember my first car, a 1934 Chevy, which I got about 1948. I was one year older than my car! I completely disassembled the engine and laid the parts all over the garage floor. I didn't know diddly-squat about good mechanics work at that time. I reassembled, using all the old gaskets and the darn thing ran! I drove it for a few years and then sold it for $25, still running.

Eventually I learned enough about cars to do a fair DIY job. Much was learned by taking things apart to see what made them work. Other times I found good information in magazines. Popular Science, Popular Mechanics come to mind. Remember Smokey Yunick? When I got really into wrenching, I'd buy a Haynes or Chilton manual. In those days cars were simple enough so that these books actually were a help.

In the late 60's the high school where I taught started a vocational mechanics course and I was able to both ask the teachers for information and to use the shop during vacations. Wow, a car on a lift was soooo much easier to work on!

I think what has helped me the most with more recent cars was my training as an electronic technician while serving in the navy. It seems that more and more troubles are electrical/electronic in nature. My first cars had valves, valve guides, and rings which wore out much sooner than today's cars do. Repairs tended to be mechanical. Over the last few years, I've done far more electrical troubleshooting and repairs than mechanical.

Questions like this start me remembering the many cars I've owned. I sure would like to have some of them back. For example:
1926 Model T Ford :eek:
1937 Chevrolet
1951 Studebaker Land Cruiser
1952 MG TD :sun_smile
1953 Chevrolet 2-dr
1954 Austin Healy 100-4 :P
1960 Chrysler Windsor :cool:
1963 Mercury Comet wagon

why is it that now with all such modern technology, the mechanics and service depts. seem to be less and less knowledgeable.
The "good mechanics" who can actually troubleshoot rather than just 'keep replacing parts untill fixed' just aren't found at the shops these days...

Two reasons, IMHO.
1) Money. A good tech at a dealership in a fairly large city can make decent money. Those in a rural area or not the Top Gun in the shop make less. Also, the guys who are smart enough to qualify for the top positions usually are also smart enough to make money in another profession, which brings me to:
2) Wrenching is a rough blue-collar type of job. It's physically demanding and dirty. I've got arthritis in my knees and hip, and I'd never be able to keep up with the kids on flat-rate. I got out before I turned 40. The only way I could work profitably today would be to do diagnostics only, and then only if I didn't have to crawl up under the dashboard very often.

I totally agree with Moneypit SEL. I'm in my early forties and I could never keep up with the young guys. Even though I'm in pretty good shape, twenty two years of wrenching have definitely taken their toll. As a shop foreman for the last few years, my main responsibility is diagnostics, supervision and training. If I was still on the line I'd give serious thought to making a career change.

would it be possible to bring this other post and merge it in here. It wasn't supposed to be posted in the other section and now there are great responses but in two seperate section.... mods ?
thnx.
here's the other post.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=132887