Opinions Please

[jammer]

Sold my beloved '89 300SEL 2 months ago. The buyer got a great car and a good deal. I'm now looking for a low mileage '97 to '99 S420, S320 LWB or S500 in that order. I have even debated buying a 60k mile S600 with 16 months or the balance of 100k mile warranty still left on it but rationality got in the way. Any opinion on these awesome cars would be appreciated. Are they as easy to work on by an intermediate DIY as the W126's?

Thanks.

[KenP]

Jammer, can't answer your question directly as I have no experience with a W126. But, did buy a 1996 W140 S500 a couple of years ago and can share my experience so far. Never owned a Mercedes before, so I was a "cold start".
As you probably know the W140s from 1996 to 1999 are similar. Earlier cars (92-95) are different beasts in many ways.
I do all my own maintenance on my 7 cars (some belong to the kids) and have had a number of different vehicles over the years.
I've had no major problems with my W140, just "normal" stuff like hoses, EGO sensors, etc. Biggest problem was a climate control issue that took me some time (and help) to figure out.
Mechanically, its pretty straightforward. Easier to work on than a 70s-80s Jag.
Electrically, its another story. Many of the systems are networked to each other. If you want to do your own maintenance, you've got a fair amount of reading to do. Much of the data moves around in a digital format which is cool for some purposes, but a nightmare to troubleshoot without the Mercedes troubleshooting information. Be prepared to buy a real scanner that plugs into the 38 pin connector under the hood and allows you to read much of the data stream.
Oh, and unlike some cars, you can't throw parts at the problem. Parts for these little beauties will kill you in short order.
Good news is that there is lots of help on this board.
Good luck. Sorry for the long post. Hope this helps. I'm sure others will leap in.
W140s. Folks either love 'em or hate 'em.

[duxthe1]

Compared to your 126, a 140 chassis is a maintennace nightmare. It is often joked about the 140 chassis "you can't point them at a shop without spending 1k$" That goes double for the 600

[400E]

Originally Posted by KenP

Biggest problem was a climate control issue that took me some time (and help) to figure out.

...

Oh, and unlike some cars, you can't throw parts at the problem. Parts for these little beauties will kill you in short order.

RE: climate control problems, there have been problems with evaporators, at least on the early 90's W140s, and this is a BIG job (and very expensive if you have it done).

Alas, there will be times when you must buy new parts. Take, for example, the infamous door closing pump, which runs over $1000.

I'd read a LOT of posts on W140s before I bought one if I were you. They are absolutely wonderful to drive, but unless you have a lot of time to do your own work (and are very comfortable with complex electronic troubleshooting as described by KenP), or are willing to spend major $ for someone else to do repairs, you may be in for a rude awakening, especially in comparison to your experience with a W126.

[Impala]

As you probably know the W140s from 1996 to 1999 are similar. Earlier cars (92-95) are different beasts in many ways.

KenP, what would you say are the main differences between them?

I have been quite fascinated with the W140 which is considered one of the last Mercedes models built when the company was 'run by the engineers not the accountants'.

I currently have a W124 (95 E320) which I'm quite happy with, and in mind a late model W140 may be the next.

[KenP]

Impala- Although they look the same at first glance, the W140 underwent a "freshening" for 1996. I have the Mercedes salesmens "guide" for selling the 1996 model and the differences fill a pretty good sized pamphlet. Some you never see like different high strength steels being used in more places for crash resistance, and so on. Many are visible to a quick look.. for instance if you look at the console, you'll see the climate control head is different... as is the radio. (believe it or not, they rounded the buttons to make it make the climate control head unit.) If you look up the engine and transmission part numbers they are different for the S500. They went from the 119.970 to the 119.980. The transmission for '96 and later was the 722.6 that starts in first gear instead of second. If you go to the parts menu on Fastlane, you'll see the two versions listed as "92-95" and "96-99".
Most important to me is the powertrain management scheme. They did away with plug wires, rotors, and caps. The later cars have a Controlled Area Network (CAN bus) that really runs everything under the hood. This new system, called ME01, results in better efficiencies (read gas mileage), no tune ups (except for plugs), and so on. Some of the new Detriot iron for 2005/6 is now touting the use of a CAN bus, but Mercedes was 10 years ahead of them.
I'm an engineer by profession and the design work is very interesting. Would like to meet some of the engineers that were able to screw the cost and make it the best. Screw the cost they did; my Coupe was over $100,000 new... and that was 10 years ago. Thank goodness I didn't pay that.
Anyway, bottom line: there are many differences. The wife drives a 2001 E320 wagon... its not half the car of my W140... (in my opinion).
But, like most things, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
You can probably tell that I love mine. Quiet as a bank vault, faster than I want to go, stops quick enough to detach a retina, and constantly gives me over 20 mpg combined. Not bad for a 335 horsepower car thats way heavier than most stuff on the highway. Having a Coupe is icing on the cake... .they're pretty rare compared to the sedans. And the looks are "knock out gorgeous".
But, and this is a big BUT, they are relatively cheap on the market cuz they're expensive to fix. Finding a good one can be tough. Many parts are heavily discounted if you look around. That 1,000 dollar vacuum pump mentioned in the previous post is easily found for 450. But, that's still expensive. I don't care who builds a car, stuff wears out. I buy many parts when the prices are right and store them for future use. Heck, just bought a fresh reman'd 119.980 short block... the ultimate spare part?
Like I said before, you'll find folks on this site that love 'em... and those that hate 'em.

[Impala]

KenP,

Thank you very much for the detailed post. It gives much useful information that I wouldn't have guessed by just looking from the outside of the 2 versions.

The W140 coupe is certainly much more rare than the sedan version, and given a choice I would pick the coupe too (... have a E320 coupe now ).

I saw a late model W140 coupe on the road a few months ago -- it was badged CL500, in silver, and looked absolutely showroom. Was thinking, how can one find cars like that these days -- don't people want to keep them forever ?

[pchansen]

I have a 1997 S500 and absolutely love it! (except for my mysterious oil leak that started after I changed the oil). I have done engine mounts, accumulators, front shocks, airmass meter, and front brakes- not to mention illuminated door sills, custom iPod installation, and Bluetooth hands free phone install- all on my own. Yes, looking at the original purchase price intimidates but the car is pretty straight forward mechanically. All my replaced items I would consider normal wear and tear. I might also add that this car has ruined me. There is no substitute. Riding in my friend's BMW's and Lexus's(Lexi?) leaves me flat. Good luck!

Paul

PS Go for the 500- the motor is stunning and comes with some extra goodies that are optional on the 320 and 420.

[jammer]

Thank you all for the replies. I will keep readings previous posts on this forum, but it seems the decision has been made in favor of purchasing a clean unabused W140. I am not in a rush to buy one so I’ll wait until the right one comes along. After the recent ’89 300SEL and the ’70 280S years ago, I don’t seem to be able to enjoy riding in anything else. Didn’t they make a special edition S500 for the ’99 model year? Do they have any special designation or distinguishing marks?

[KenP]

Jammer, not familiar with any special badged '99 W140 model. Others may know of one.
On the Coupe, they were simply marked S500/S600 in the North America market up through 1997. In 1998 and 1999, the W140 Coupes were marked CL500/CL600, putting them in common designator with the Euro market, where they were always sold as CL500/CL600. Additionally in Europe, there was a CL420.
Bottom line is that if you want a W140 Coupe, made in 98 or 99 (almost identical cars), look for a good CL500.

[Victor300E]

I had 420sel and now I have 500sel. Both cars I fix myself. Major difference in fixing them is parts price. w140 is more expensive to maintane and salvage yards prices are still high. And as somebody already said w140 has way more electronics than w126. Drivability wise they both feel very solid cars, very roomy inside ans very smooth. 500sel feels faster and more quite. A lot of details were added like vacuum windows,door assist,trunk handle,parking antennas,adjustable seat bottom,foldable mirrors,nicer sound system,split climate control. Quality wise I can say 1 thing-it's just luck. Somebody buys new car and most of cars life it spends at dealer. I bought my 500sel that looked to be not very well maintained, all messed up,non drivable, engine looked overheated, chain skipped 2 teeth. I started the original engine and drove the car and I was amazed that it still runs and drives very nice even after all damages made to it. So I can state that m119 is very dependable mechanical wise. I love w140. You will be very happy with it.
Good luck
Victor

[benzboy87]

Yes. There was a limited edition S500 for the '99 model year. It was called a "grand edition" and had the AMG style wheels, two-tone interior like the S600, and several other things that the S600 had - not sure exactly what. I am sure someone can chime in on that.
Basically, the S500 Grand Edition was the predecessor to the designo package with exterior in obsidian black and the interior in charcoal and gray.
I am thinking they limited the run to 500 cars and was only available to the North American market.

[Hatterasguy]

They are pretty simple to work on. The S320 at least is very similer to my SDL. A lot of the parts like the serp belt system, ps pump, oil filter are similer or in the same spot. The learning curve is very easy for the M104 I6 at least.

I'd buy a scanner if I owned one, because when eletrical stuff breaks thats really the best way to find the problem. Either that or throw parts at it.

[400E]

Jammer,
Check out this current thread (in case you aren't already following it):

140 resale value falling like a stone?