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-   -   5 speed 300e on Ebay (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=139698)

A264172 12-13-2005 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lkchris
...Can't imagine starting on hills with a manual transmission and foot-operated emergency brake.

Spend a year driving one in Pittsburgh... 'and it will be second nature' to you... :)

Duke2.6 12-13-2005 10:08 AM

The ratios are 3.86, 2.18, 1.38, 1.00, and 0.80:1; 3.0s pull a 3.07 axle, 3.27 on 2.6s - same as the same engine/body with an auto.

Highway fuel consumption is reduced on the order of about 10 percent and this is reflected in the EPA ratings.

First gear provides good off the line acceleration, especially compared to the "second gear start" autos, which have a lag time from the time you floor the throttle until it shifts down to first. Even if you move the shift lever to 2 to gain a first gear start, the manual is probably quicker, which is typical for most cars, but pulling off a good hole shot with a manual without inflicting abuse requires some skill developed through experience

Car and Driver claimed 0-60 in 7.5 seconds and 140 MPH (in fourth) when they tested a 1986 300E five-speed - very quick for that era. No doubt the 300E manual was a "gentleman's hotrod".

On the downside, the wide spaced ratios are not well suited to the peaky nature of the engine and overall, the gearing is very tall. The 2/3 split is particularly annoying as accleration tends to fall off upon shifting due to the large rev drop. For example, first gear on my Corvette is 2.20 - about the same as second on the Merc, and third is 1.31, which is not that far from the Merc's 1.37 third, but the Corvette has a 1.64 gear in between, so engine rev fall off is modest, which keeps the power from dropping much on upshifts - either in normal driving or maximum performance acceleration.

The direct drive five-speed (1:1 fifth) from a 16V with the European model's 3.07 axle would be a good compromise in my car. About ten years ago I researched the swap, and from what I could determine it was all bolt-in, requiring the trans, driveshaft, and axle (which would also get you a LSD) from a donor gray market 16V, but about that time I stopped driving my Merc daily and decided the benefit was not worth the cost and effort.

For highway use the OE gearing is quite good. Third gear is "passing gear". Drop it to third from 75-80 MPH and it gets you to near 100 MPH, which is the rev limiter in third quite quickly for a relatively small displacement engine, and it cruises comfortably at top speed - a little over 130, which is about 5000 in fifth. Top speed is actually achieved in fourth at about 6200, but fifth will hold top speed on level ground since the power at 6200 is about the same as at 5000 on either side of the 5800 peak.

Duke

A264172 12-13-2005 10:41 AM

Thanks for the feedback Larry and Duke...

The difference in 'performance' would be mostly in the kickdown's electro/mechanical/vacuum lag-time and at the high end of the speedo where 5th can open up. And also with the greater control that standard gives over shift points.

I do like my automatic. It's a fine car and can perform quite well around town when you want to put a little effort into gear selection... and even if you don't.

But I do long for a 5 speed.

I learned to drive in a 78' Rabbit 5 speed, diesel and I suppose that ones first love is always hard to forget.

Perhaps someday I will find the right car and finances, at the same time, to make the move.

Duke2.6 12-13-2005 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lkchris
Not to mention the fact that every automotive magazine there was said they were terrible. Even in 2005 Mercedes Enthusiast says as much.

Can't imagine starting on hills with a manual transmission and foot-operated emergency brake.

Performance, perceptions, and expectations have changed a lot over the last 20 years. Car and Driver ranted about how great the 300E five-speed was (and it still is), but their reference point was recent model cars and 1975 to 1985 models were probably the nadir in the post WW II era.

Fortunately, 201s still had a hand pull parking brake between the seats.

Duke

boneheaddoctor 12-13-2005 11:49 AM

I liked that car.....if I had the funds and was looking I would have drivien it gladly....

boneheaddoctor 12-13-2005 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A264172
Spend a year driving one in Pittsburgh... 'and it will be second nature' to you... :)

yeah.....Mt Washington or the hill district will make you an expert stck shift driver or a walker....one or the other.

A264172 12-13-2005 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor
yeah.....Mt Washington or the hill district will make you an expert stck shift driver or a walker....one or the other.

You got that right.

Around here your on a hill ⅔ of the time... doesn't take long to get the hang of it or give up and ride the bus ;)

865sp300e 12-13-2005 10:32 PM

five speed 300E
 
I own a '86 5 speed 300E and collect whatever info I can find on this model.

Here is some manual vs auto data...
Car & Driver raved about it in the April 1985 issue, noting a 0.29 drag coefficient, enhanced power-to-weight ratio, and better fuel mileage.
performance numbers 0-62 mph: manual=7.9sec/auto=8.3sec
top speed: manual=143mph/auto=140mph
(I had mine up to an indicated 135mph).

By the way, Road & Track in Dec '87 picked the 300E to be one of the top ten cars in the world in their annual "10 best" issue.

LarryBible 12-16-2005 07:57 AM

This is an old man talkin', but if you have to use an emergency brake to start a stick shift car from a dead stop on hills, you don't yet have enough stick shift experience. I can start from a dead stop on the steepest of hills with any stick shift vehicle I have without slipping back more than a few inches.

PRACTICE, Practice, practice!

As far as the 300E transmission being gappy, maybe the 86 was different from my 88, but I have NEVER noticed such a problem. There again, maybe it's just my million plus miles of experience driving stick shift cars.

Merry Christmas,

Duke2.6 12-16-2005 10:36 AM

Ratios are the same.

Intergear ratios are 1.77, 1.58, 1.38, 1.25:1.

For comparison the 16V direct drive five-speed intergear ratios are 1.62, 1.42, 1.40, and 1.26:1.



Duke


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