5 speed 300e on Ebay - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

lee polowczuk · #1 12-11-2005, 10:37 AM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4595391583&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

If you can access this...what would you pay...?

It happens to be 35 miles from my house 95k miles Carfax checks out. Said to be in showroom condition.

Not that I need another one...but a 5 speed would be nice in the stable.

My guess it doesn't meet the guys reserve...but how much could you pay for a 20 year old car? Still faces the usual A/C issues down the road or maybe now.

JerryWagner · #2 12-11-2005, 10:49 AM

Lee, I have this exact year/model/color in the Automatic, I would not pay more than $2750 for it, they are solid cars, don't worry much about the A/C you can get a compressor for $200 and it's not a hard fix, get your Carfax and check it out, if it hasn't been exposed to salt roads and there is no rust it would be a good addition to the Stable, and thanks for your Carfax reports that you sent me !

lkchris · #3 12-11-2005, 12:46 PM

Looks typical for year

Negatives:
19-year-old spare tire
Gillette tires on ground
Cruise control inop as noted
aircon converted to R134

lee polowczuk · #4 12-12-2005, 11:37 AM

Claimed to have sold for 3999. I went with 3100.

bill · #5 12-12-2005, 12:24 PM

I have 86 300E black metalic with 5speed,Good A/C for sell.
billgate1@gawab.com

Duke2.6 · #6 12-12-2005, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lee polowczuk

Claimed to have sold for 3999. I went with 3100.

How do you know?

Duke

A264172 · #7 12-12-2005, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke2.6

How do you know?

Duke

I was following the same 'ebay' auction so I can answer.

The auction ended with a bid of $3,999.00 (reserve met)

Looked like a nice car (at less than 100,000mi) and worth that price to me.

#8 12-12-2005, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryWagner

Lee, I have this exact year/model/color in the Automatic, I would not pay more than $2750 for it, they are solid cars, don't worry much about the A/C you can get a compressor for $200 and it's not a hard fix, get your Carfax and check it out, if it hasn't been exposed to salt roads and there is no rust it would be a good addition to the Stable, and thanks for your Carfax reports that you sent me !

Just so you know, the a/c problem on the 124 is not commonly due to a bad compressor. If there is a leak it will commonly be the evaporator or expansion valve. Since these cars are aging now, it is more common for the condensors to leak.

The evaporator is about a 15 or 16 hour job, thus it is big bucks if you can't do the work yourself.

As far as $2750 for a stick shift 300E, even a marginal stick shift 124 will bring more than that. For us stick shift lovers, the 5 speed 300E is a real gem. There were only 700 something of them sent to the US in 86 and 300 something in 88. Even though my car now has 286,000 miles and is not the most cosmetically perfect 300E you'll find, I wouldn't take double that amount for it.

For stick shift lovers the five speed 300E is head and shoulders above an automatic. I bought mine about nine years ago now and it took me two years to find it. To an automatic lover I'm sure that it's just another 124 car, and that's fine.

Have a great day,

Duke2.6 · #9 12-12-2005, 09:26 PM

Stick shift six-cylinder 124 and 201 models are extremely rare; '86 manaul transmission 300Es were on "allocation" (dealers HAD to accept some number) and the accepted import total is as Larry stated.

No stick shift six-cylinder was available in '87. Dealers didn't like them because most buyers wanted automatics, and the manuals tended to stay in inventory until the right buyer came along.

As a compromise, beginning in '88, six-cylinders sticks were only available on special order, which is how I got mine, and it took four months to be delivered. As a result, there were probably even fewer six-cylinder sticks in '88 and AFAIK this methodology continued for several years thereafter.

As stated, a manual transmission behind a six is a whole new driving experience and makes these cars serious sports sedans with measurably better performance than autos, notwithstanding the more relaxed cruising and signficantly better fuel economy with the overdrive fifth gear. Autos are a dime a dozen, but finding a decent six-stick will take a lot of time and patience.

Given what I could see and read, this 300E was a relative bargain. The last six-stick we saw was what appeared to be a nice '93 201 Sportline that went for $6600.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6328&item=4544355405&rd=1

Duke

lee polowczuk · #10 12-12-2005, 10:17 PM

there's a lot of funny and phony bidding on Ebay. This auction had the bidders identity protected. the bid didn't jump until 3999 until the very end..it was in the low three's. I think the owner may have been doing some bait bids at the end hoping that someone would take it from the low 3's to low 4's. I think the owners bid was 3999.

I could be flat out wrong...but I have been seeing a lot of this. I may e-mail him in a couple of days to see if his "sale" went through.

The car is real close to me...I should have gone to see it and alerted some of the folks on here..I couldn't really justify putting another benz in the driveway, but would have if the price was right or if I didn't already own and maintain two 124's.

I really did want a five speed, but not badly enough to five up the CE. The E is my son's. I guess I could have sold the wife's Expedition and let her drive the 5 speed. oh well.

deanyel · #11 12-13-2005, 12:22 AM

Shill bidding on Ebay Motors is completely out of control, often absurdly obvious.

A264172 · #12 12-13-2005, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke2.6

...As stated, a manual transmission behind a six is a whole new driving experience and makes these cars serious sports sedans with measurably better performance than autos, notwithstanding the more relaxed cruising and signficantly better fuel economy with the overdrive fifth gear. Autos are a dime a dozen, but finding a decent six-stick will take a lot of time and patience...

I've been meaning to ask 5 speed drivers of the M103 about the performance aspect. From what I've read and assumed you can get about 20-30% better gas mileage from the standard transmission due to the .85(?) ratio in high gear as opposed to the 1.0 ratio of the automatic.. My question is does the car have any 'more' acceleration off the line than a 'manually shifted' automatic transmission? and if so why?

#13 12-13-2005, 09:51 AM

I cannot personally answer any questions about a comparison because I've never driven an automatic 300E but I will tell you this:

Suginami comes to Dallas once or twice per year and we usually get some folks together for dinner. I pick him up at his Hotel and drive him to the event. Until recently he had an M104 engined 300E, and I might say an absolutely MINT copy. Every time I would give him a ride in my 5 speed he would remark about how the manual makes the car come alive and other comments about how fast it was.

His feeling was that my 103 engined car accelerated harder than his 104 engined automatic.

To me, it's not the acceleration that makes it so much fun to drive. I am a manual transmission fan and just don't like driving an automatic. I don't care if I'm in a terrible traffic snarl and move five feet every 30 seconds, I STILL love my sticks. The problem is that it makes my car selection quite limited and getting more limited. The 300E is a FABULOUS car with any transmission IMHO, but when you put a manual tranny in it, the car becomes a phenomenon AFAIC.

As an example of such limits of manual transmission production in the US, the latest generation Ford pickups only offer manuals in the six cylinder two wheel drive models. I was needing to replace my pickup which was a 78 F150 4X4 that I bought new. Once I learned that there were no more 4WD V8's available with a stick I decided to find a good used truck of the last generation that offered it. I'm glad I did. Maybe it will also last 27 years.

Also your comment about gas mileage. You might search for my post about my vacation I took in early October. I wrote in great detail about the automotive part of my trip as it applied to my 300E and fuel mileage. The car got 29.36 MPG average for the trip which included mountain driving.

Have a great day,

Duke2.6 · #14 12-13-2005, 10:08 AM

The ratios are 3.86, 2.18, 1.38, 1.00, and 0.80:1; 3.0s pull a 3.07 axle, 3.27 on 2.6s - same as the same engine/body with an auto.

Highway fuel consumption is reduced on the order of about 10 percent and this is reflected in the EPA ratings.

First gear provides good off the line acceleration, especially compared to the "second gear start" autos, which have a lag time from the time you floor the throttle until it shifts down to first. Even if you move the shift lever to 2 to gain a first gear start, the manual is probably quicker, which is typical for most cars, but pulling off a good hole shot with a manual without inflicting abuse requires some skill developed through experience

Car and Driver claimed 0-60 in 7.5 seconds and 140 MPH (in fourth) when they tested a 1986 300E five-speed - very quick for that era. No doubt the 300E manual was a "gentleman's hotrod".

On the downside, the wide spaced ratios are not well suited to the peaky nature of the engine and overall, the gearing is very tall. The 2/3 split is particularly annoying as accleration tends to fall off upon shifting due to the large rev drop. For example, first gear on my Corvette is 2.20 - about the same as second on the Merc, and third is 1.31, which is not that far from the Merc's 1.37 third, but the Corvette has a 1.64 gear in between, so engine rev fall off is modest, which keeps the power from dropping much on upshifts - either in normal driving or maximum performance acceleration.

The direct drive five-speed (1:1 fifth) from a 16V with the European model's 3.07 axle would be a good compromise in my car. About ten years ago I researched the swap, and from what I could determine it was all bolt-in, requiring the trans, driveshaft, and axle (which would also get you a LSD) from a donor gray market 16V, but about that time I stopped driving my Merc daily and decided the benefit was not worth the cost and effort.

For highway use the OE gearing is quite good. Third gear is "passing gear". Drop it to third from 75-80 MPH and it gets you to near 100 MPH, which is the rev limiter in third quite quickly for a relatively small displacement engine, and it cruises comfortably at top speed - a little over 130, which is about 5000 in fifth. Top speed is actually achieved in fourth at about 6200, but fifth will hold top speed on level ground since the power at 6200 is about the same as at 5000 on either side of the 5800 peak.

Duke

lkchris · #15 12-13-2005, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke2.6

Dealers didn't like them because most buyers wanted automatics ...

Not to mention the fact that every automotive magazine there was said they were terrible. Even in 2005 Mercedes Enthusiast says as much.

Can't imagine starting on hills with a manual transmission and foot-operated emergency brake.