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-   -   Titanium (alloying?) of friction surfaces (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=139986)

compress ignite 12-14-2005 05:54 PM

Titanium (alloying?) of friction surfaces
 
The other night on the speed channel (I think) , they were disassembling a
horizontally opposed four cylinder (Vw, Subaru?) to be able to "Treat" the
camshaft,the crankshaft,the buckets[lifters?],the valve stems and a bunch of other friction surfaces with what they described as a Titanium alloying process
(sort of like Nitriding,as opposed to Coating).

Any one ever run across this?

I'll have to see if Kestas knows.

barry123400 12-14-2005 06:52 PM

Saw the show. New to me as related to auto parts. But see all kinds of titanium coated drills available in last few years. Must try a set someday but imagine that coating is very thin.

t walgamuth 12-14-2005 07:00 PM

it sounds like
 
an alternative to chrome plating.

tom w

Craig 12-14-2005 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth
an alternative to chrome plating.

tom w

Pimp my crankshaft?;)

compress ignite 12-14-2005 07:19 PM

Titanium
 
You would not want a "coating" to come off [I believe].
Titanium is such a "Hard" metal that the residue of the release might cause some
difficulty in the lubrication system?
'Memory being so imperfect,I could'a sworn they were talking about almost an
impregnation of the Titanium into the surface of the friction bearing metal(s)
rather than a coating.[less wear,better lubrication]

Craig,
The new industry you suggest would involve almost , "The Emperor's New Clothes" sales approach , since there would be
no visible recompense to the vehicle's proud owner.('never mind that the "improvement[s] would be under the hood AND
inside the engine) Still it has potential...Any group willing to spend $12,000.00 U.S. for wheels on a car whose actual
value is less than $10,000.00 can and will be "Sold" anything...with the RIGHT sales and peer pressure.

Kestas 12-14-2005 07:38 PM

Were the surfaces gold in color?... then it's titanium nitride. If it's gray, it's titanium carbide. TiN and TiC are very hard and wear resistant, hence the application in tooling and cutters. They are also extremely abrasive.

Titanium isn't alloyed into iron and steel as nitriding is, unless they're using plasma (not spray) deposition. TiN and TiC are more of a coating, as is hard chrome plating.

I happen to be a metallurgical consultant for one of the NASCAR racing teams. I've never heard of TiN and TiC used are friction reducers, so I'm perplexed as to why this technology is beig pursued. Racing technology is going to diamond-like coatings (DLC) to reduce friction.

Like you said, I'd hate to see this hard, brittle coating spall off and become a contaminant in the lubricant.

For regular automotive production, technology is bing pushed for wear resistance on cam, tappet, valve stem tips, and valve seats. But wear isn't the all-encompassing factor. There are other requirements of the material, such as toughness and heat resistance.

Let me know when they repeat the program.

waybomb 12-14-2005 07:45 PM

Kestas
What is your opinion of cryogenic treatment on wear surfaces in am engine?

Kestas 12-14-2005 07:59 PM

I've been following that technology very closely. The only merit I can give it is for hardened steels. It has been documented by reputable sources to improve steel that has been quenched and tempered. Our company is considering cryotempering for producing precision bearings.

Basically, cryotempering converts any retained austenite in steel to martensite. Austenite is soft, martensite is hard. When hardened steel is put to use, any retained austenite in the microstructure can convert to martensite under applied cyclic stresses. This will distort the part. The idea is to have as little retained austenite in the microstructure as practical to prevent growth/warping of the part.

There's more to it, mainly on how to manage cryotempering. Too much for one post. It's not as simple as dunking a part in liquid nitrogen.

All other applications are snake oil. I haven't seen any reputable sources give credence to the efficacy of cryotreating on any other type of metal, nor can I think of any basis for merit (based on my schooling) on using it for other applications.

waybomb 12-14-2005 08:21 PM

Kestas

The reason I was asking is I know for a fact that it does extend the life of hardened steel cutting blades. In a place I once worked at, standard blades needed to be honed every 4 hours, and changed every two to three days.

The same exact blades, cryogenically treated, needed honing maybe once per day and lasted at least 8 full production days.

But if it only works on hardened metals, I guess there is really no app in an engine.

Thanks for the knowledge!


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