Why does MB recommend airbag replacement
 

Hi folks,

Just bought an '87 300e. There is a sticker on the glovebox door that says the airbag should be replaced in 1997. Considering what these things cost does anyone know why MB does this since I haven't seen this on any other car?

Thanks,

Bob

Can you say LIABILITY ?
If an airbag-equipped vehicle was involved in an accident & the bag did not deploy as it is supposed to, it would ( possibly ) leave the OEM wide open to a lawsuit.
Consider this basically a " legal disclaimer ". ;)

That initial ten year replacement period was extended to fifteen years, but that still means it is past the recommended time for your '87. Don't know if the fifteen year interval was extended or not.

Len

So does anyone replace these? Where do you get a new airbag for a 19 year old car. I've seen a bunch of what appear to be used bags on e-bay, but I wouldn't mind finding one from someone who actually knows what they're selling.

Thanks,

Bob

Cost
 

I would not worry about it. The cost of a new airbag unit could easily surpass the value of your car. While airbags are really nice your seatbelt does most of the protection in the event of an accident.

Bob,

I've thought about this too... but I don't see any used one as being more pristine than the one on my garage kept car. Besides,how much new would the used one be?
What's list price these day 2100?


Michael

Think Insurance Value
 

Ok,

So you have a perfectly maintained 300E with brand new airbags at how much ever you paid per bag and someone pulls out in front of you and you hit them. Both bags deploy (just like the old ones would have) and your car is total loss. How easy do you think it will be to get the other guy's insurance company to pay you the $10K or so you think your car is worth because of all the new parts you have on it? While some people do succeed in doing this you would have to present a very well documented case on how your 300E was in such better condition than all the others on the road. The insurance company would still probably fight and use the "We can only pay market rate and are not responsible for reimbursing for repairs" route.

Front Airbags provide some additional crash protection but their help is limited in comparison to the seatbelts in most crashes. The more helpful airbags in my opinion are the side impact airbags because there is no latteral protection for the driver or passenger in a side impact. Side curtain airbags are great also for preventing cuts from broken glass and keeping your head from impacting the center pillar. But these airbags are only in recent cars.

Because Frontal bags provide some minimal protection and their cost would be astronomical I personally would be willing to risk the odds of the bag working after its intended lifespan. The 126 is the first "production" car in the world to offer an airbag. Recently Mercedes bought one of these cars from its original owner that was equipped with one of the optional airbags and crash tested it. The car and airbag were 24-25 years old and the whole car functioned perfectly in the accident as it was designed to.

On an older airbag the only thing I would be worried about is unintended deployment due to an electrical fault.

I have to go with the liability issue with the reason like someone else suggested. Even the used airbag market is kind of touchy. Paypal the online payment provider for the Ebay auction site does not want their service used to purchase used airbags. In our litigate first have common sense later society companies have to protect themselves. Lawsuits have affected many industries. One only has to look at the personal aircraft industry to see what the effects of lawsuits can do.

Wow folks,

Thanks for all of the input. The cover on my bag is split at the seams and so I do want to get another bag for the car. It seems to me that I'll have to purchase a used one from e-bay or somewhere else to do that and take my chances. I know in aviation just about everything gets rebuilt, or at least like a parachute - inspected and repacked. Is there anyone that does an inspection and repack on these bags?

Thanks again,

Bob
'87 MB 300e
'85 Jag XJ-6
'67 Triumph TR4a
'76 GMC C15
'97 VW Cabrio

Used or new
 

Dont know of any airbag refurbishers other than the sleazy car rebuilders that sell cars with "empty" airbags. They obviously get their covers from somewhere. I personally would not be comfortable cracking the seal on one to put another cover on it for the saftey end of things (exploding airbag) and for the liability aspect (if you ever sell your car). A used bag from the most recent compatible model would be the best bet.

If your brave you could test fire the old bag to see if it still works. I would suggest extreme caution doing such because they put out a lot of force. Long wires and a safe distance would be reccomended for such a risky but fun thing. Im sure the resounding explosion sound would put your mind at rest over the 15 year replacement term :)

Part number 124 460 03 98 is $1170 MSRP, $877.50 here
http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?siteid=213951

Protection from lawsuits. Heck I bet if you even tried to have the dealer change it they would make you sign a waiver.

Actually MB isn't the only maker to do this, Toyota does as well. My Camry said right in the manual that at the 10 year mark the system should be inspected by the dealer. Dealer said as long as it ain't throwing codes drive it.

Aside from liability, the older bag compmnents degrade with time. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=59485&highlight=air+bag

I kept the old bag, replaced the seat belts, which also degrade with time, and are more important than airbags as far as restraint goes, IMHO.

Probably pretty close to the initial offer on a wrecked 87 300E from an insurance company. Keep in mind Insurance Adjusters start negotiating at wholesale value. They don't care how much it costs to replace the car.

I've got to beleive that the time limit was "liability cutoff attempt" as well as a concern over the potential deterioration of the bag itself. I read an article about a switch company that was sued (and settled out of court) when a 20+ year old safety interlock switch they made was used in a product, it was broken from physical abuse/damage, people kept using the machine anyway, and someone eventually got hurt. This is why any switch for a piece of insustrial equipment costs 20 times what it should...

Evidence?
 

rchase- you made the statement:

"Frontal bags provide some minimal protection"

Do you have some documentable evidence of this statement, or is it just your opinion?

Thanks

My 1995 Range Rover Classic has the same requirement. Land Rover also recommends airbag replacement every 10 years. Ironically, most Land Rovers don't last that long. God bless the Classics! :D

I wouldn't sweat it.

Simple Logic
 

I have read some studies about frontal airbags and their minimal effects in most collisions. I don't remember where I read them though. Im sure you could find some information in the search engines if the topic interests you.

Logic however would allow one to draw some conclusions. Most Minor accidents don't result in passenger compartment deformation especially in a Mercedes (I believe my 126 was designed to sustain a 50mph collision with a solid barrier and still be able to operate the doors). If the passengers are both wearing their seatbelts what exactly are they going to collide with and be injured from in an accident? Airbags are great for extreme accidents when the dash starts to move into the passengers compartment, however in such a solid car the speeds required to deform the cabin are much higher than we "normally" have here in the states.

Don't get me wrong. I like having the Airbags in my 140, however in an older car without side airbags they provide minimal benefit. My 126 does not have airbags and I am glad they are not there so I don't have to worry about 24 year old first generation technology accidently deploying in my face. I don't feel any less safe in the 126 because it has seatbelts and a "similar" energy absorbing front end. The airbags I think are the most important are the side airbag because doors are much thinner than the entire front clip of a car and seatbelts only work front to back rather than side to side.

In smaller subcompact cars even a front airbag provides a lot of benefit because it takes less energy to deform the passenger compartment of these cars.

A lot of the saftey ratings for some of the newer cars are somewhat misleading. Smaller lighter cars have less mass and therefore have less overall crash energy with a solid barrier. In the "real world" you have the mass and crash energy of more than one vehicle in sometimes more than one direction. In full size S class vs Honda Civic Im glad Im the guy thats driving the S class.

Basically, that is the whole issue about airbag ageing. The chemical components which trigger and inflate the bag on an accident degrade through time.

First, it was thought that 10 years was the limit for those chemicals. As originally equipped W126s and W124s aged, it was proven that the limit could be raised to 15 years without trouble.

As with any industry "expiration date", I would assume those 15 years could be easily and safely extended maybe to 17 or 18 years. After that, you are simply playing the luck factor.

Buying an used airbag (similar in age to the one fitted to your W124) from E-bay should be useless and a waste of time and money (as the chemicals would be degraded similarly).

The only safe bet would be obtaining a recently manufactured airbag with fresh components.

Hmmm.... I guess it depends on the level of attachment that you have for the car.... The car in question is a 1987 300E.... Those have a pretty good range in price depending on the condition...... The airbag on the car has a cut in the plastic covering.... A used airbag would provide a cosmetic fix and have a workable airbag..... The new part is a considerable percentage of the car's value...... Used parts might not be what you would want to put on your own car but they are certainly not a waste of time and money....

My old Audi had an expiration date too. I disconnected the bag on my 88 560SL. For reasons already stated by previous posters, it is not worthwhile to have it connected. The car is driven around town 95% of the time, so the chances are that it might be involved in a low speed fender-bender rather that a high speed crash. Not worth it.

JL

Hmmm... I don't think I would disconnect it. Mercedes recently did a test on a 1981 model car that was equipped with an airbag. The bag functioned correctly and would have provided "some" protection in a high energy collision. If your sitting at a light and a semi comes roaring through the intersection and smashes into you that airbag might come in handy and possibly save your life. Its impossible to predict what happens on the road. While in 99% of cases it might not provide much additional protection its that 1% that can kill you.

There is still surplus WWII ammunition that works!

I think the risk of a low energy deployment or no deployment is much greater than an inadvertant deployment, so it makes no sense to disconnect or otherwise disable the airbag system.

The less exposure the car has had to very high temperatures, the less likely the propellant has degraded, and an electrical fault will light the "airbag" indicator on the dash. The system is microprocessor-based and goes through a self-test every time you turn on the ignition.

On average airbag systems probably have much more life that most think, but the OEMs are just covering their tails for that time when someone has an accident and it doesn't deploy and some lawyer sues for millions.

Duke

I have heard of a test that Volvo is supposedly conducting where they have stored airbags in a harsh environment (desert?) for many years (20+?) and test deploy one each year. To date, no failures. I agree that it is far safer to leave the bag connected and while the front bags do not provide the safety of the systems in use today, I believe that the statistics indicate more that just a "little" protection over no airbag, with one study indicating as many as 6,000 lives saved by airbags, not to mention decrease in severity of injuries sustained.
OliverB

Recall that Mercedes calls this system SRS or Supplemental Restraint System. Its primary purpose is to protect idiots who don't use their seat belts, although it will also provide additional protection to belted drivers in extreme dead head-on collisions, such as into a solid wall, which are extremely rare.

Most "head-on" vehicle collisions are offset type where the cars strike a glancing blow and then spin off to the side. An unbelted driver may be protected from the initial collision, but they are likely to be ejected from the vehicle and end up just as dead as if there was no airbag.

Crash certification testing requires testing with both belted and unbelted crash dummies, but it only simulates the rare dead head-on collison, not a typical offset head-on collision.

Duke

As said in the previous post, airbags were first introduced to protect people who would not use seatbelts. Using a properly adjusted seatbelt will give good protection in most frontal impacts, the main advantage of the SRS system is the seat belt tensioners which fire on impact and pull you back into the seat reducing the risk of contact with wheel,dash,screen. Side impact is I feel the most lethal incident these days,and although strenghthening bars and curtain airbags can give some protection, if you are hit side on by anything travelling at speed you are going to be very lucky to survive. So keep you wits about you when pulling out at junctions.
Geo.

I saw a program a while back and its theme was the future used car market.
With the air bag saftey system well past 10yrs from introduction. Many many used cars will be sold with air bag systems well past the intended life spand.
Installing a new system will cost more than what the car is worth. So most people will not update thier system. The big concerns are, will the air bag deploy on impact or will it deploy on its own as you are driving down the road?
On this program they stated many times when the air bag would deploy on its own, which in some cases caused accidents. Some deployed while sitting in the driveway. I think this issue will start getting alot more attention in the next 5 yrs. when the systems are getting even older.

Not sure about these cars, but replacement of airbag (driverside) on some require the entire new steering wheel. I think it is built into the wheel. You just do not remove the bag and install it into your old wheel. Someone correct me if I am wrong.......

Also keep in mind, if you get one on e-bay, chances that it could be as old as yours. :huh:

BTW - my 1990 Lexus LS400 also had a sticker that said to replace it in 2000, but I heard they had a 20 year extension on the Lexus, but not 100% sure if it was so or not. Good luck!

You can remove the air bag on a W126 without pulling the wheel. Its pretty simple actualy did it once, someone needed the plastic cover and I had a spare.

I can safely say that I am not the slightest bit concerned about this.

If you want new air bags that bad cough up the money for a new car. Even new Kia's blow up like a ballon when you are hit. They have like 10 side impact airbags, nice to know if you are ever hit.

I don't think an airbag blasting me in the face would cause an accident. Once while in the middle of a takeoff roll I had a door pop open on the rented Cessna 172 I was flying. It scared the hell out of me but I managed to keep composed enough to keep the aircraft under control and close the door once I got the plane higher off the ground.

Its highly unlikely that recent airbags will deploy on their own. While it could happen and could scare the hell out of you if you don't throw your hands in the air and start screaming hysterically you can maintain control of the car and pull over to do some really good swearing.

The automotive industry for years has been trying to introduce the concept of the disposable car. In a lot of cases the scare mongering about airbags is just another thing to scare you out of an older car and into a new car.

Most bags fit inside the steering wheel and can be replaced independantly of the steering wheels. Do a search on ebay for airbags and you will see just the center part of the steering wheel for sale.

The airbags Im most impressed with are the side curtain airbags (who wants a shower of broken saftey glass in their eyes after getting their car destroyed?) and the head protection airbags (keeps your interior clean from blood and brains by preventing you from cracking your skull open on a side pillar or windshield pillar).

Some of the Swedish cars Volvo and Saab are equipped with some additional saftey features that are not in Mercedes Cars. My Volvo S70 had a reinforced piece of metal that rose up from the door sill right near your hip. I think it was the SIPS system Side Impact Protection System. The other feature was the Whipps system which was a whiplash protection system. The seat track was equipped with energy absorbing components that would allow the entire seat to move back and forth to absorb the impact energy of a rear end collision rather than your neck and back.

A Doctor friend of mine got a free demo of the Whipps system while his C70 was in the shop for service. The S70 Loaner he was driving got rear ended by a fully loaded box truck and the entire rear end of the car got destroyed pushing him into another vehicle in front of him. He walked away without a scratch and was only slightly annoyed because his breifcase got mashed in the trunk.

Oh yeah the amount of air bags on new cars is truely amazing. I have seen cut away displays and literly most of the interior blows up. Your head isn't hitting anything but an air bag.

Safety wise cars have come leaps and bounds in the last 20 years. Just look at some of the stuff MB offers in the new S, truely amazing.

Could give a rat's ass about air bags or even seat belts for that matter. I just follow some simple rules that have gotten me to over a quarter of a century of driving with no accidents and no citations. I'm not saying I drive 55 in th fast lane. I drive at safe speeds up to 100+ mph if conditions permit. First of all I never drive in the #1 lane on highways or the super slab. That is where you get ticketed and that is where some yahoo comes through the divider from the other side and takes yoy out. I also never drive with knats. That is a group of drivers who don't know each other but insist on driving together in a tight group. When one knat screws up, they are all in trouble. I never let some A-Hole ride on my rear quarter. I turn on my signal to take his lane which P*sses him off and causes hom to speed ahead of me. I then turn off my signal. I always leave myself an exit in any situation. This has saved me twice where I was able to scoot out of the way and watch all the other cars pile up. I constantly check my rear view mirror so I know what's going on behind me. Stupid drivers are oblivious to their rear view mirror. That action alone saved the life of a man and his family about a year ago 20 miles from where I live. Road construction brought traffic to a hault. A guy in a van was watching his rear view to make sure everyone else was stopping. He could see that a semi wasn't so he pulled out of line and the semi slammed into the pickup in front of him killing the driver instantly. I also pretend that I'm invisible. That has saved me from many accidents. Most of you live in states with courteous drivers and don't have as much concern, but I live in a state which has the most inconsiderate A-Hole drivers in the world.

incase you die
 

Mercedes wants to protect themselves. So incase you happen to be driving 25mp/h and being a very safe driver who drives in the fast lane and never listens to honks....well that one day someone cuts you off and you're car goes flying into a side barrier at you're modest speed of 25 mp/h kills you on impact and the steering wheel snaps you're face and ribs apart...well mercedes doesn't want you're spouse or kids coming after them, let alone a lawsuit by an insurance corp seeking to be refunded their settlement payout for the victim driving a mercedes who's air bags never deployed...

You can't blame mercedes for that, sure the car's have airbags, but car's get old, and so does the relabilty of electronically controlled components. Alot happens in 10 years. Doesn't mean they won't work, but incase there's a chance they don't work, you can't sue. My buddy wrote off a 2004 Maxima on a snowy day as the car skid at 60 km/h..and when it spun around it damaged every panel on the car and the airbags never deployed and he barely lived....so don't put too much trust into those things either.

Yes Yes!

And thats why you should grind up your whole Mercedes after 10 years. Too much liability if your steering system or braking system just randomly stops working and causes an accident. We want to avoid all legal liability you know.

Just being sarcastic. Seems things are going that way though with most newer cars. With all the talk about protecting the enviroment no one looks at the impact car factories have on natural resources and the enviroment. While the disposable car might work well for an automakers bottom line its certainly a waste of resources.

If all car makers stopped making vehicles tomorrow the world would still have enough cars for the next 50 years. Take a look at the Cubans for example. They have not had cars or parts imported there for years yet seem to be able to keep their cars running.

Yea its amazing what the cubans have done with all the 40 + year old American car's, looks like they left the dealership yesterday. But the cubans have alot of Eastern Europe and some western europe car's. It was only an American embargo till a few years ago, so they do have alot of other non american car's in cuba. I've seen pics of Volvo's and lada's in cuba...

Cuba was flooded by Eastern European cars during the Soviet influenced years. Hence lots of Ladas and Skodas came into the country.

When the Soviet era ended in Cuba (what the locals call the "Special Period") other European companies slowly started to get into the game.

Now Peugeot and Citroën are two of the most popular brands in Cuba. Although, we cannot leave out Mercedes-Benz, as the fleets for all major luxury hotels are basically E 200s (W210s -sedans and wagons-).

Taxi cabs were usually Citroëns and Ladas. Now Peugeot 307s are taking over.

Mercedeses are not unsual to be seen the island (beside the E 200 taxicabs), since many Embassies and some rental car companies do also have Benzes. Audi is another popular brand among Embassies and rental companies (A4s, A6s and even A4 Cabriolets).

Finally, most of the beautiful American relics from the 40s and 50s you see on the streets are either running with adapted Lada engines, and most, with agricultural russian tractor diesel engines. Quite a mechanical masterpiece! The old V-8s just had to die, and anyway, at gasoline prices on the island, it is almost impossible to run a V-8 gasoline engine daily, unless you are Fidel Castro.

Its amazing how long you can keep a car going if your willing to invest the time and money in it. The problem is our disposable culture here in the US. Nobody repairs ANYTHING. A friend was about to toss out a very nice German Skeleton Clock once because it stopped ticking. All it needed was an adjustment and lubrication. I got the repair done for free by a neighbor who is a clock guy. A free repair vs buying a new clock. Our wasteful consumption here in the USA is a harmful disgusting disease!!!!

This sort of thing also sickens me. It certainly isn't just with cars. There is just something Unamerican (at least up to mid-20th century American, anyway) about being wasteful. Maybe it was the early Puritan influence. Not that long ago, it was noble and worthy of respect to repair something and make it like new. Now, it's just weird and/or cheap behavior.

My pet peeve is electronic landfill.

Of course, manufacturers have realized this, and now everything is built like crap, because it just doesn't matter anymore.

Don't forget, in America, everyone wants to be rich and the cost of labour to repair computers, tv's, watches, plumbing, electrical, mechanics all exceed $75 dollars an hour for qualified labour. Now why spend a couple hours of expensive labour on a product that will still be considered used or old? Most times its just cheaper to buy new then repair old. Its just how it is, and why our society is like that.