How does the 190 compare to others...
 

How does the MB 190E (2.6) compare to the W124? I hear alot about the impressive driving experience provided by the W124, but haven't heard much about the 190. My understanding is they use alot of the same parts and are essentially the same car. Common sense would tell me to look for a 190E instead of a 124 because a larger car is typically more expensive. If most of the parts are similar, it would appear that a W124 is better in every way. There must be some kind of tradeoff.

I typically look for cars with manual transmissons, but Mercedes made alot more autos. I'm not awfully impressed by the auto in my W123. Did Mercedes make alot of improvments to the later autos? Inconsistant shifting, and harder shifting with the A/C on becomes more annoying everyday.

If the W124 and W201 drive in a similar way to my W123, I think I'll start looking at BMW. Don't get me wrong, the W123 is a great car, but I'd like to upgrade.
Thank You

the 2.6 engine is crammed into the 190 engine bay...making that part tougher to work on....

i think if i got a 190...i would get the smaller 2.3 engine... of course there is no performance..

the 190 with the 2.6 has to be a spirited car.

I am picking up another w124 tomorrow... it will be my third... it will be a
260e.

i really find the w124's to be a good car.

I don't see how there could be an argument for a 190 with 124s are cheap as they are. The 124 sticks are quite rare - a few hundred of them in 86 and 88. The 4 speed automatics are not great but they're not bad and they last longer than anything that has come along since. But if you're really looking for a stick BMW is a better option. A nice 124 stick shift is a needle in a haystack - probably no more than a few dozen of them in the whole country and not often for sale.

190 (W201) has ZERO rear legroom.

To me, they look a little nicer
 

When I was 19, a friend had a 190E. It was metallic grey/blue with blue cloth. Electric windows and sunroof and a 2.0 liter 4 cyl engine.

From the outside, he had the car lowered and had 16 inch mono-block style wheels. The only other add on was a Zender rear spoiler.

It was one of the prettiest cars that I had seen then. I think the 190E's are seriously under rated. I'm not sure about the US, but in the UK, they were a lot more popular then the W124 for a couple of reasons.

IMHO, they look sportier and the W124 had a carburetter on it's 2.0 liter engine early on, while the 190 came with fuel injection from it's production start.
To me, it seemed to be a Mercedes for the younger generation.

You still see a bunch of 190E's with body kits in the UK but all that plastic is starting to crack and fade now.

I had another friend who owned a C180 said that his older 190E was a much better car.

Here is an example on ebay UK of an 89 model going for 500GBP

http://i19.ebayimg.com/05/i/08/57/9c/f1_1.JPG

And another one for 750 GBP that is styled exactly like my friends.

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/196...14308rewt4.jpg

If it wasnt for the high cost of fuel and road tax, the UK would be a petrol head's dream

Thanks for the replys.

I looked at a 190 2.6 today. They are quite nice. Seemed to be better than my W123, and I really like the seats.

What would cause the car to bog on hard acceleration? With a certain amount of throttle, it would take off pretty well, but if I gave it too much gas it would fall flat on its face. Maybe just a tune up or sensor?

The engine ticked on startup but quickly quieted down. The serpentine belt also made alot of noise but became quiet after a minute or two. Theres some more noise from the front of the engine though, maybe the belt or waterpump. It needs a drivers side interior door panel. Any idea how much they run? The A/C cycled, but didn't get cold. Maybe just a charge.

I'm most concerned about the bogging. If someone could comment on that it would be appreciated. I doubt its anything major. Also, is it typical for these cars to tick on startup and not need headwork? No smoke on startup.

Thanks

i have not owned a 190 but have had two 124s. they look the same from the center of the car forward to me.

i think the 190s are just as well made as the more expensive cars except for trim which is simpler.

except for the fact that they were sold more as an economy car it may be more difficult to find a well maintained one. sticks are more common in the 190s than any other model except for perhaps the 240d. (which may be the best made ever in terms of quality and simplicity to maintain).

good luck in your search.

if you have time, take your time and pay a little more for a really well maintained car with complete records.

and never never pay more for low miles unless you have a solid paper trail confirming the miles. i have owned 29 of them and wouldnt trust myself to tell for sure about miles without a trail.

tom w

190e legroom
 

i have to agree about legroom.in the driver side,,i just cant get comfortable in the right way because im either crammed in or too far out,or so it seems,,,WTF? aside from though,mine at least is a gem.

We have several 190E 2.3-16's and a 1988 W124 300E 5-speed. The W201 was the first model to use the new, now ubiquitous multi-link rear suspension.

Size wise, the W124 is a significantly larger vehicle. They look similar, but the W124 is larger inside than a BMW 5 series, while the W201 (190E) is about the size of a BMW 3 series, maybe with a little more rear seat legroom.

I think the W201 is MB's first significant chassis design improvement since the mid 1960's and the 220D, 230, and other mid size cars that came to the US as 1968 models. It comes from the era of developmental discipline that brought us the W123 and the 240D, and is quite a well thought out and well worked out product.

I have had more problems with the W124 at its age/mileage (lower than the two higher mileage 190E 2.3-16s) than the W201's, although none of the failed items in any of these cars has ever stranded me. I have close to 200,000 miles on my 300E and have a total of over 600,000 miles on three 190E 2.3-16 valves, and my neighbor has a "regular" 1986 190E 2.3 with close to 280,000 miles. He recently had the head rebuilt with the intent to get another couple hundred thousand miles out of it as a car for his son.

If you want to have a higher level of performance, buy a 1986-87 190E 2.3-16. It comes with a factory body kit, and is a precursor to the AMG line of tuned cars MB sells now. It has about the same HP as the 300E of the time from a tuned 4 cylinder, can be found with a 5 speed manual, and has a lowered suspension. The big difference between the W124 and the W201 is handling and the 190E 2.3-16 is a big step up from the standard W201.

A decent 190E 2.3-16 can be found for $4500 on up, and, if you can find a Euro version (grey market) that is in good shape and is missing a bunch of the US version's added junk (like the automatic climate controls, electric seats, electric windows) you get a lighter car that has no extra opportunities to send you into the innards of the car to keep it operating 100%. The basic machines are very sturdy, however you have to become familiar with the self leveling system for the rear as having the dealer fix it is expensive, and "it" usually has problems with the accumulators about every 70,000 miles. If you ignore them they ruin the rear "shock" mounts, which means new struts and they cost a bundle. There is also a small position sensing/flow directing vavle that needs to be kept clean and lubricated. Chaning the accumulators is a pain in the rear as the typically they are corroded to the hydraulic supply lines and I have had to cut the threaded boss off the old accumulator with a Dremel tool and then cut the boss off the fitting on the hydraulic line. Messy and takes a long time, but it works.

Hope this helps you. Jim

Whatever the merits of the 190 may be...the 190 is NOT a downsized W124.

They are not "essentially" the same car.

M-B put a lot of care and thought into the 190, especially the latter versions. The 190 was supposed to be M-B's answer to the smaller Japanese imports. It was also the first small Benz in a long time. So Benz really put a lot of care into the 190. It was designed by Bruno Sacco.

But the 190 and the W124 are not the same car.

PERSONALLY I assume it a bicycle that tends to be a car.
Please no hard feeling.

There IS NO comparison. Go for a W124.

personally, i prefer the w201 chassis over the w124..mainly because the w201 looks much more like the w126 than the w124 does..and i really like the look of the w126..its screams mercedes..

for whatever reason, i dont like the w124 taillights..i dont like the non-square trunk..doesnt look right..

i'd take a w201 any day over a w124...

heres some pics of my w201/w126..

http://community.190revolution.net/members-rides/23724-my-new-190e-2-6-large-pics.html

and some more after a good detailing..

http://community.190revolution.net/members-rides/24398-freshly-cleaned-large-pics.html

-kris

Now how about W202 vs other W??? of its time?

Actually the W124 trunk design turned out to be a structural innovation that has been copied more than nearly any other feature on a Benz in a long time. The trunk lid comes down to the floor of the trunk, or about flush with the bumper, and does this without compromising the structural rigidity/torsional stiffness of the car. The tapered opening is a key to that structural innovation. All cars today with trunks that go down that deeply use this feature, although some, for styling reasons make the trunk lid and fender intersection look square by overlapping the trunklid and the fender structure.

The W201 and W124 share quite a few features of their designs that reflect the fact that their development was underway over the same time frame. The W124 went into production after the W201 by a few years, so it would be more accurate to say the W124 is a derivative of the W201 than to suggest the W201 is a smaller W124.

The two cars are aimed at different markets. The W201 was intended to bring MB into a new market, while the W124 is aimed at the market established with the W114/W115 and W123 cars of the previous decades. The W201 was a direct response to the market the BMW 2002 and subsequent 3 series created for high end, smaller, sportier sedans.

Jim