Help with C-Class Models ...

[AuctorEcclesiae]

Hello friends -

A very happy New Year to everyone. I hope that 2005 will be a great year for everyone here at the forum.

Am looking eventually to trade in my car for a C-class. After doing some research here on the forum, I have generally read excellent posts on the C230, which is what I'm looking into. I'd like to look for a '97-'99 model, but am unsure as to specific issues with each model year. Here are a few questions I'd like to ask:

1. What kind of fuel mileage can I expect from the M111? I've seen posts anywhere from 29-36mpg. Are those pretty realistic figures?

2. People have warned me about problems with the 722.6 style 5-speed transmission. Was this problem corrected in later model years, and exactly what model years is the transmission a problem?

3. How about back seat room? I'm 6'4" and I sat in the back of someone's C230. My head didn't touch the top, which surprised the heck out of me. Front room was a bit tight because the seat was back. How do others feel about the back seat space?

4. Any other items that might highlight one model year over the other?

I'm looking for a smaller car that gets great gas mileage, but that isn't a piece of plastic, either. There are many compact sedans out there, but when it comes to accidents, they shrivel up! I hit a deer with my '93 190e, and that car saved my life.

Thanks for the help friends, and I'll look forward to hearing from everyone.

Take care!
Michael.

[manny]

Well, I certainly enjoy my car ( see sign. ).
Yes, it get's 30 mpg quite easily on a highway run ( cruising at 70 - 75 mpg ).
Short trips normally average about 25 mpg.
You gotta love that C 230 K, power on demand & great mileage.
From what I have seen here, the transmission glitches were sorted out by 1999, or 2000.
Backseat space is acceptable.
Trunk space could be a little more.
Build quality is fantastic in my humble opinion.
Replacement parts cost, brakes, windshield wipers, oilfilters, etc. average about 30 % LESS than what I used to pay for my Volkswagen Jetta.
Go figure.
In short, I would highly recommend this car to anybody.

Michael:

I recently bought a 97 C230 and have been quite happy with it...
gas milage is great.. at first I could not believe the milage I was getting [30 mpg is not unrealistic]... performance is not blinding > but what do you expect from a four banger??... form-fit-function is real nice > very well laid out engine compartment...

I have had no bad experiences with my automatic tranny... shifts correctly .. smooth..

I hope to keep my C230 for a long time

[Michael K]

The C class W202 is a great little car. The back seat makes good use of the available space but is definitely not huge. It will fit two 6-4 people, but there won't be anything left over. Fitting even a small third person in the middle would be a real squeeze. Fitting normal infant and child seats into the 202's back seat is a real pain.

The transmission is the Achilles heal of this car. What would you do if it completely crapped out? Unless I were able to buy one that came with a Starmark warranty, I would seriously hesitate before spending significantly on a vehicle that may end up needing a new transmission.

Yes, the M111 gets phenomenal gas mileage. You'll see it most on the highway, if conservatively driven on the highway for long periods, you'll see in the high thirties. Normal day to day is more like high twenties. Compared to an inline six, the M111 is downright rough, though.

Have you thought about a later model with the M112 engine? Pretty good mileage. Very smooth performance. Changes the character of the car.

The W202 was sold through 2000. What's your strategy here? Are you looking only at older models? Do you have a set amount to spend? The 722.6 is really sweet, but have you thought about older than 1997, say a 1996 C220 with the older four speed 722.5 transmission (if you did have to replace the tranny, it would cost MUCH less).

[Will_w202]

As far as the 722.6, remember that the new-for-'97 5th gear contributes to the great highway mileage you can get in these cars. My trans seems to have sorted itself out (in part thanks to Starmark electronic fixes and a fluid change) and the 722.6 is a solid and smooth transmission, unless you do get a defective one. Another aspect of the 4cyl to consider is that it is the easiest on the trans, the 722.6 having been designed for and installed in much more torquey V12 models. So, as long as you have records and change the fluid by 60k if it hasn't been done, you should be ok. A record of electronic fixes or total replacement is a bonus too

[hos280]

I saw some research (on line) once that said the reliability of the C classes started to drop in the mid 90's. Now this doesn't mean they are not reliable, just not as reliable as the ones before. They are still more reliable than american cars , but not japanese.

Definitely stay away from the new body versions (2000+) of the c class-lots of problems. Pre 1996 C classes seem to hold good reliability. Consumer reports also has shown a decline in reliability in the c-class starting in the mid 1990's, and it bottoms out in the years 2001-2002. although it is hard to tell yet, the 2003 and 2004 models are improving.

As far as the engine - go for the 280 6 cylinder -nice power, fuel usage is between 25 and 30 mpg depending. This is what I measured on my car, so it is not a guess.

[Benzadmiral]

. . . back in July, a '97 C230 (the "plain" 4-cylinder). There is nothing rough about it unless you drive it that way. I rev it up when entering the interstate via one of the rare uphill ramps here, and the engine is barely audible even when I have the windows down.

Over Christmas week I drove it to Bay St. Louis, about a 90-minute drive from New Orleans. This was my first road trip in the car (until now, I've been too busy and the weather has been too hot for me to drive it more than 1/2 hour at open-road speeds). It performed like the little thoroughbred it is, utterly smooth and solid. I didn't fill back up to check the highway mileage, so I can't tell you about that, but it looks good.

It takes premium gas, of course. Some posts here suggest you *might* be able to get by with mid-grade, with a corresponding loss of power. With the mileage the little 4-cylinder gets, it's not a real worry.

Oil is easy to change, filter about $9.00 at the dealer and cheaper online. It doesn't require synthetic oil like later models. Air filter and cabin filter are easy as well. There are fewer gadgets to go wrong than in the E- and S-classes (wonderful as those cars are, I understand, to drive).

About the only niggling complaints I have is that the trunk release button, at night, is easy to confuse with the rear window switch, and . . .

. . . actually, that's about my only complaint.

[kraut]

I did a bunch of research before I bought this car. I also looked at BMW 3 Series and Volvo s90. Ultimately, I chose the C230k. I drove C280's but found the Kompressor was quicker and sportier. The performance specs for both cars verifies that. My wife had a 95 c220 and this car smokes it. I like the 2000 vs the 1999 because of the tiptronic transmission...fun. I purchased from a dealer and got the Starmark. No problems other than a sub woofer was blown which you could only hear if you really turned it up (the glue on the cone came apart). Dealer fixed it.

I ALSO chose this car because of all the inventory out there. I printed up 60 cars for sale online within 10 miles of the dealer. All with around 40k-50k miles. I walked out on the fist dealer when he didn't accept $18k for a 1999 230k Sport. The second dealer had 2 cars I liked (A 99 and a 2000) white and silver respectively. I told him to give me prices for both cars. Again, I was ready to walk. He gave me what I wanted. Silver c230k with 37k on it.

You should be o.k. driving it for your height (I'm 6'1" 220lbs) Back seat is o.k. but I wouldn't plan long trips with adults.

My milesage has been around 26 highway but that's doing about 85 - 95 mph (I have a radar detector). When I'm easy on it (rarely) it get 28 mph.

That's about it - good luck

[Michael K]

They really are great little cars and are VERY Mercedes-like, solid every which way. Great in town and on the open road. Keep in mind they are quite conservative in nature relative to a BMW. Drive a six (M104 and M112) back to back to a four (M111 compressor or not) and see which you think is smoother.

[Michael K]

If I were looking, $5,000 buys tons of well kept early W202s, much car for very little up front cost. The C220 M111 is OK, and the M104, even with its problems, is a sweet engine. An often forgotten problem with the early ones, at this point, is the ACC system, though. Keep in mind that the W202 is cheap, but is still very much a Mercedes... If you have to pay a specialist to keep up with every little thing, you're in for a rude awakening.

[blackmercedes]

The 1994-1995 models of W202 are part of the "wiring harness" problem set, making the 1996 models a little more desirable.

Properly sorted out, the 722.6 tranny (1998-) is great. If a car has a new transmission, don't be upset. It's a good thing. It means you have an updated version.

As to the four bangers, the 2.2L M111 and 2.3L M111 aspro engines (1994-1998) are some of the best gas engines MB has made. They are super reliable, don't leak much, have a huge double row timing chain, and run a long time without repair. I have begun to see many early models with 300,000kms and much more without anything more than the occasional valve cover gasket replacement. They share many design elements with the M104, but don't suffer the head gasket problems.

The engine bay on the M111 equipped cars is roomy and makes DIY simple. I can do most all the service tasks on my C230 without much effort. Greatly reduces long term costs.

The W202 is the simplest of all MB models made after 1996, and it shows. This means it's pretty much the most reliable MB available less than 10 years old.

My own C230 gets about 9.5L/100km's (25USMPG) in city driving and typically gets around 7.0 on the highway, but it's not tough to get 6.5. (34/37mpg) Now, you can't get that at 140km/h cruising speed.

Some on-going things a W202 owner looks to...

1. Front lower ball joints wear out if the car is driven on rough roads. I'm on my second set.
2. Sway bar bushings last about 4-5 years, maybe a bit longer. Simple to DIY, cheap parts.
3. M112 V-6 versions have the troublesome harmonic balancer.
4. M104 I-6 versions have the troublesome head gasket.
5. If the ACC/AC system goes on the fritz, it's typically an evap temp sensor. Cheap part, easy DIY.
6. Air Mass Meters on ME2.1 cars can last about 160,000kms at the outside. It seems changing the engine air filter on a regular basis extends it's life, but be prepared to treat the AMM as a maintenence item.
7. M111 engines (and other MB engines) are sensitive to oil fill level. Overfill and you can kill the main crankshaft seals.
8. M104 and M111's both have tempermental valve cover gaskets. Not an expensive part, but (at least on the M111) it's a bit of a pain to do.
9. Spark plug lead ends are a source of misfire codes and should be replaced every 4-5 years, but check 'em every so often.

Change the oil frequently, change the coolant (and use MB coolant) every two years or so. Keep the brake fluid clean by changing it every two years or so. Change the engine air filter often, don't foget the cabin dust filter (eases the load on the blower motor and evaporator) and on FSS equipped cars, forget the super-long oil change interval. Go for 8000km's or less.

I've owned my C230 since new, and it's the most reliable car we've owned, including Acura, Honda, Mazda and so on...

[AuctorEcclesiae]

I'd like to thank everyone for their very valuable comments today on the C230! You've given me some excellent tips and what to look for when I eventually get into the position to begin looking for one. I appreciate your help very much! Looks like '98 and '99 will be the model years that I will concentrate on. After searching for some C230's in this model year range, I saw that there are quite a few available for very reasonable prices with low mileage.

At first, I never liked the C-class sedans because I thought the brake lights were really ugly and really off-set the back-end of the car. But with any good thing, it grows on you after awhile, and you think to yourself, "Ah, it's not so bad after all!"

My interest in the C-class was renewed after a recent trip to Florida. A friend of mine bought a 2000 C230 Kompressor, and after sitting in it and looking it over, I began to fall in love with it again ... not hard to do I'm told. I have a Volkswagen Jetta TDI right now, and it's been a great little car, but it has transmission problems that are really plaguing it. After the warranty runs out, I'll be getting rid of it ... don't want to be caught with a $5,900 transmission repair bill from VW. Will definitely look at the C-class. After the experience with my 190e, I'm looking forward to having another one.

Thanks again, friends - all the best!

-Michael.