1995 E320 Starting Problem
 

I have a 1995 E320, and all of a sudden it wont start. It won't even turn over. I turn the key and nothing. I checked the battery and it still has juice left in it. The dummy lights come on when I turn the key, but thats it. The starter does not engage at all. Like I sid this happened all of a sudden with no warning. Any ideas of what it could be, and where should I start looking. Thanks

Try starting it in neutral in case you have a bad neutral safety switch.

I tried starting it in Neutral, drive, park, and nothing. The starter does not even engage. SI there a fuse or relay I should be looking at. I looked at the fuses under the hood, and they are all good.

Replace fuse #5.
That is K38 relay feed.

ftp://members.aol.com/ajdalton7/K38.jpg

If that does not work, jumper bat 12v pos to center terminal of the 3 wire connector on the firewall between the engine and booster area..just to the left of brake reservoir.. [ X/27-v/wht on schematic] ..that is starter sol feed and will test starter circuit .

Report findings.........

ptm6295, how old is the battery in your 1995 E320? When a battery fails in a MB typically there is no warning ... the car won't start even though the courtesy lights and dash lights work.

On my 2000 E320 Wagon I thought the battery had lots of life left but the E class seems to need a lot of juice to get the starter to engage.

New factory batteries are only about $125 and would be the first place I would look.

I am going to replace the battery, I do not know how old it is, it came with the car when I bought it a year ago. I will also replace fuse #5. Are you talking about the #5 stick fuse in the fuse box under the hood, or are you talking about a relay somewhere else? Thanks

I replaced the battery with a brand new one, and replaced fuse #5 under the hood, and still the same thing. Dummy lights and buzzer come on, but starter does not engage at all.

You tried in N using the new battery too, right?

Arthur had another test for you to do in his post....

Can anybody give additional info about the location of X27.. ie a pic or few more details..? I think that would be helpful here.

Maybe this will help:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showpost.php?p=1003218&postcount=10

Ok, first off thanks to everyone for the great advice. OK, I jumped the 12+ terminal to the middle terminal of that plug, and the starter turned over. Since that worked what is the next step, and what is most likely the problem? Thanks again

Read the last link I posted... then search for "X27" using the search function for this site. There are about 10 threads there that are pretty much all covering what you need to do next.

First thing tomorrow I will pull the cluster and jump the x38 relay. I will let you know what happens after that.

<<OK, I jumped the 12+ terminal to the middle terminal of that plug, and the starter turned over. Since that worked what is the next step, and what is most likely the problem? Thanks again>>


OK....next test:
Test for 12v at V/GN at the X49/2 plug [ terminal #3] with ignition sw in Start position. That verifies K38 contact set circuit [ just above the gas pedal]
..or, you can do the same 12v bat jumper as you did on x27, but to that point at X49/2 for starter activation in N or P.
If starter works with jumper power to there , k38 circuit is open. If it does not, then you have a bad NSS.
I would also do a 12v test on both sides of fuse 5 to ground w/test lamp before checking k38 relay circuit, just for power verification for relay coil.

OK, I jumped 12v+ from battery to the x49/2 and the car started right up. What is the next step after this. I really am appreciative with all of this help you are giving me. Thanks a million

Jumped 12+ to the x49/2 terminal and the car started right up. Where does that leave us? What is my next diagnostic test? I really am appreciate with all of this help. THanks

I don't know if I am ahead opf myself, but I went ahead and pulled the dash cluster, and jumped pins 87 and 30 with a piece of copper wire, and then put the relay back into the car. The car would not start up. Was this the next logical step or did I skip something? THanks

OK..
That verifies NSS circuit is OK.
If you look at the schematic I posted for you, you will see what we are doing is working backwards from the X27 terminal under the hood..so, we now know you have a bad K38 or bad Ignition sw.
You will notice on the schem. that there is a section marked CDN ..note that jumpers out the K38 circuit b/c they have no K38 interlock feature.
So, you now have to get to K38 and jumper 1 and 3 just like the CND version does.

BUT..as I stated ..first check that $5 fuse on BOTH sides for power b/c if there is none on one side , then K38 will not be held IN and the starter circuit will NOT WORK..so, kindly check that FIRST before pulling cluster.

You are getting ahead of my instructions..give me time to type..

OK
With relay out of car, test for 12v w/test lamp at pin 87 of relay plug as you turn key to starter position

OK, I checked the #5 fuse for 12v, and with the ignition on, I got 12v above and below the fuse, so that looks good. I then checked pin 87(#3) on the connector, and turned the ignition on, and did not get 12V. So it seems pin 87 is not getting power. What is my next step?

..with the key turned to Start ????????????????????????
Not RUN..we need START for this test.

Yes with the key is the start position, still nothing. The problem must be further down the line I am guessing since pin 87 is not getting power.

Does START position = engine on position OR cranking position?

I tried them both in the on position and in the start/cranking position.

OK

That points to bad start position contactor bar in the Ignition sw.
Put your test lamp back on socket 87 and ground,,then turn to Start position and wiggle the key ..try several times and see what you get..

Also , do you get High Blower when set to Defrost??

Start position is Starter circuit , of course..
RUN position is Ignition activation ONLY......................................

NOTE

Make sure you are not at pin 87a...we want # 87 , which is Vi/#1 , coming from ignition switch
[Look at schematic]

Yes I tested #87, top row, middle. I got no change when I put the ignition to start. Does this mean it is an ignition switch problem. BTW, I do not know if this makes any difference, but before all of this happened, if the temperature outside was above 85 F, the turn signals would not work. I don't know if one has to do with the other, but too much information can't hurt. When all is said and done, PM your home address, I will have to send you a gift from NYC....Thanks again

One other thing, when I jumped the x49/2 connector, and the car started, couldn't I put i switch wired directly from the battery there, and start the car that way. OF course the key would have to be in the ignition to unlock the steering. Just a thought.

<<BTW, I do not know if this makes any difference, but before all of this happened, if the temperature outside was above 85 F, the turn signals would not work. I don't know if one has to do with the other, but too much information can't hurt.>>

That is why I ask you to try Blower motor..that is just a trick I use to test that we have Bat power to the ignition switch before we go take that all apart... if we have blower , then we have Ignition sw feed from ALT/BAT MAIN feed .. I need that question answered...

Yes ..I have seen guys do that b/c they had a bad ign sw starter circuit section...I even had a guy that would open the hood everytime and stick a jumper into the original x27 plug after I showed him how to do the test at the firewall...not my style, but he never did change the ign sw....

Prob still like that....:)

The key still has to be used b/c the other bus bars in the sw activate the RUN positions [ ecu/ign/etc]
You are simply jumping 12v to the Starter with the test I have mentioned.
The k38 relay and the NSS only interupt the starter circuit............

The x27 firewall jumper terminal is a good piece of info to know if your car happens to get a NSS breakdown in the middle of Nowheresville at 3 in the AM..that trick will get you Home before the Homies get your car.............:)

OK, i just put ignition to the ON position and the blower works fine. Whats he next culprit.

I would rather fix it the correct way, but sometimes it is too expensive or complex.

Ignition sw

Note...

I just ran through your post and noticed on post #21 you have pin 87 listed as teminal #3 for voltage test...Pin 87 should be term.#1 , not 3....verify that as a typo before we continue as that would throw a wrench in the test procedure for ignition sw test...............

http://catalog.worldpac.com/mercedesshop/sophio/wizard.jsp?partner=mercedesshop&clientid=catalog.mercedesshop&baseurl=http://catalog.peachparts.com/&cookieid=21H0MN3YU26A0YL2Y3&year=1995&make=MB&model=E-320-001&category=M&part=Ignition+Switch

Sorry for the confusion, yes I tested pin #1 top row left side. Again no change when I put the car in the on position or the start position. Sorry for the mixup.

Violet wire , correct?
That is the feed from ign sw, so that would be the suspect...did you try the key On/Off/Wiggle trick while you had a test lamp on the vilet wire terminal????????

No I did not try that yet, but I went ahead and ordered the new ignition switch. The problem I talked about before with the turn signals not working above 85 F. Would that have to do with the ignition switch as well? Just curious. Also where is the ignition switch, right behind the ignition? Finally please PM me your name and address, I really would like to send you something from NYC. I really do appreciate the time and effort you have given me.

http://dieselgiant.com/repairignitionlock.htm
This DIY has good pics ot the assembly. Of course you won't have to do any cutting.

You will not need to remove the tumbler... just keep the key in position 1 to: 1) keep the steering lock from engaging 2) keep the security pin retracted and 3) keep the lock on the ignition wiring harness disengaged. There are three screws on the back side of the ignition switch (conceled by the wiring harness plug) that secure it to the steering lock assembly.

Thanks for the information. I thought this was going to be easy........lol.......I will wait until I have a few hours free time to attempt this. Thanks again everyone.