85 500 sec
 

if anyone can help it would be great. i have a 85 500sec and the car will not idle and it also hesitates when you try to pedal up for power ,if you gradually pedal up i can get full throttle but the car will not idle, a note this car sat for awhile so i thought the gas was bad i pulled the fuel pump ,filter and cleaned them out, i also took the fuel dist off and cleaned it up the piston moves freely, i took out the injectors cleaned them up as well as the fuel lines i seem to also have a similar problem with my 924 porshe they both have this **** mechanical fuel injection any help would be great, also does anyone know of the procedure to swap out the m/b motor for a chevy 350 i heard of this and might be intererested in a posible swap if i continue to have fuel issues thanks in advance

does seem to sound like a fuel issue

Do a search
been a few threads discussing this lately

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=200979

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=199782&page=2

Think its the CIS K injection
I got it too
darn things are not great hot starters

Mine starts fine if its cold & it sat but least it runs
Good luck

Actually the fuel injection system on that car is very very simple and reliable. it also lasts about forever. no system will work if it is gummed up with bad fuel.

if you get it working right it will give a long reliable service life.

Tom W

Thanks

I was getting a bit concerned
as mine is a 82/83
Don't expect it to be the best in the world
but would like it work reliably

Good to know
I was hoping I didn't get a really bad fuel system
I am aware they have hot starting issues
inherent in them
even the manual has a note you may have to press accelerator ro start do a hot start...

Sometimes simple is better
less computer/electrical control

Good ole benz
Hope I get mine happy & it lasts almost forever

:D

I would check the simple stuff first such as fuel pumps, vacuum leaks. Then do the more harder stuff such as testing the electrical components such as the wiring harness and sensors, components of your fuel system. Between that you should be able to find it.

just wondering round the engine
reading threads
crossing my fingers
hoping I find it...
Thanks,

If you need diagrams let me know via pm and I can send you some. I would need your vin# and email addy so i could them to you.

CS,
Have you added any fuel to the cars tank yet, you dont seem to drive it much?
I think something you really need to do is drive that tank empty and then fill up and add a bottle of Techron synthetic fuel system cleaner to the tank and drive it some more. I know you talk about not dirveing much and not getting out and being afraid it will leave you on the raod. Guess what, any one of our cars can leave us on the road. Get it out and drive it, anywhere. Just drive it, for a while. A long while and let it eat that tank of gas. Maybe even put a fuel system cleaner in now and drive it. By the expensive fuel system cleaner too, synthetic is nice, MB likes Techron if you can find it. Get a good drive and put a new tank of gas in and more cleaner with the fuel. Not recommended all that often but this car has sat for a time and it needs the carbon and gum cleaned out of it, WHo knows, the high idle issue may just go away if you have something sticking and it gets cleaned out. It has happened lots of times before...

When I got it had about 1/4 tank
I filled up with the corner Chevron Techron took about 16 gal
I've driven about 60 miles & used about 1/4 tamk


The techron is a fuel cleaner?
Does the gas station sell it?

B\Not sure about those things
though

I do want to get some of those things done before I did serious driving
I'm a chicken & inexperienced highway driver...

:eek:

Well my birthday is Sunday
So maybe its time
with my vacumn hose repair the new radiator cap, radiator & thermo
Maybe its time to see what she can do?

:D

See CS, Here is the deal...You have nothing to lose...You have AAA and the MB road side service if ANYTHING happens. Also, you have done several things that should make it run better and nothing you have found indicates an iminent failure of any parts. It can happen at any time and there is not real "time" to feel it is ready to drive. Just a "time" to know it is not ready to drive. It is not smoking, it is not making any "bad" noises, and it is not leaking any fluids to speak of. GO for a drive on your Birthday! Stay off the major roads or highway, but drive it! Use up the gas and while you are out, find an Autozone or Advance Auto or even a Wal Mart and go in and brag about the car and then go buy a couple bottles of fuel system cleaner that you add to your fuel tank when you fll it up. It will clean the injectors, the throttle body, the parts you cant see or get to, I know you like the sounds of that, clean...
Techtron is one of my favorites and it is a synthetic addative and Many MB mechs recommend it. It is a good total cleaner. Black bottle with a red white and blue logo near the top. Shaped like a round cylinder with a tapered top that comes to a small point. Not hard to find. If you cant find that brand, just get what looks good and buy something that is not the cheapest , but not the most expensive, I like the mid cost cleaners. $4-8 dollars a piece. Dump it int he tank at teh gas station and then fill the tank at least half full. can put one in without a fill up, but it doesnt mix as well unless you go for a drive afterwards, But that is the main thing I WANT you to go do. The car will thank you, even if you need to call AAA for something silly that might occur, the engine needs to be run for you to know if the things you dont like about it are from old gas and dirty injector system and sitting for 2 years or if it is really something to focus your attention on.
Happy Birthday and have fun. DRIVE!

Since the fuel system sounds good, I would tend to lean more toward the Idle Speed Control Valve (slide valve) and/or the Idle Speed Control Unit. When mine went bad, the car ran fine at highway speeds, but pull up to a stop sign/light and it would die.

Also, awhle back I was swapping out the control unit just to see if mine was bad. I put a bad one in and revved the engine. After letting up on the accelerator it died immediately.

If you are unaware of the locations, the slide valve is silver and on the front top of the engine. It sets between the distributor and Warm Up Regulator (if you have the latter) and has two wires going into the front of it. The control unit is under the dash and probably behind the glove box liner.

I guess you're right
Truthfully the car is only half on the equation
the driver is a it intimidated by it but I really want to get it in motion
would be good for us both!

:cool:

Oooh mission one
Find some of that Techron cleaner
I have has a hard start but got it on 2 or 3 tries

It has mostly fresh gas
I added 16 1/2 gal Chevron Techron when I got it it was at 1/4 tank
so it has basically 6 or so old in it

I don't feel a fast idle would result from dirty things
as that would seem to slow it?

Anyway time to make coffee & take a drive...

Have a great day

:ukliam3:

High idle is likely same cause different symptom:
IE high idle can be due to dirty ICV, vac lines old and cracked, throttle body dirty, etc Engine and computer likey trying to compensate for something else that has set and is not operating up to standard. Hard start could easily be caused by bad or dirty injector as a result of sitting for a time. Also, the cold start valve, which is really another fuel injector that injects directlyin to the intake for fast start when cold could aslo either be dirty, bad, or leaking. SO, many of the things that you are annoyed about could be from lack of use and varnish or gum accumulating or just being dirty from use and age and sitting undriven. See why it could benefit from a long highway speed drive, it heats things up, burns of bad gas and blockages and gummed up injector system. You might find something fixed after the drive and if you dont, it was still fun.
Note: Cheveron Techtron gas has a small amount of the same cleaner Techron, that I want you to buy and use periodically in your fuel tank, say at least once a year or twice, you dont drive it much, I have done it as often as every 3 months in my 16v with no negitive results, only a fast clean, nicely handling engine.
PS - My pride and joy, 1986 2.3-16v doesnt always start right up on the first key turn either and I paid a bit over 3 times what you paid for your new baby to get this one is such good condition from Florida, big deal. I could be an endless search to finally get all the possible reasons sorted out to get it to guarantee it starts on the first turn. Who cares, it is running well, all else is within specs, valves set correctly and babied with tons of new parts casue I like to turn wrenches. Just drive it.

I just took my 380SE from Acton to Valencia MB to get the correct spark plugs and wiper blade refills. Got the plugs and they only had One refill, luckily my passenger side wiper is like new. I need to buy the vacuum hose between the engine and the brake booster. $54.00 from MB and they would have to order it. I waited on that. Car did something in Valencia that scared the bejeebers out of me. It would not shift into second or third, range from a stoplight. just reved up. I was close to the MD dealer(didn't even think of the MB roadside assistance) and by the next turn it seemed fine. Parked in the dealership lot and went in and bought my parts.(boy you spend some bucks on the googahs, clothes, model cars, and widgets on the wall). I got back in the car and it didn't start right up like usual, but I helped it and then it started and idled fine(this might be cleaning up on it's own). I did fill the tank with premium and dumped in a can of cleaner($6.00 range). I didn't have any problem with the car all the way back up the mountain home. That tranny thing scared me. I thought I lost the tranny right there. Tells me I need to drain the tranny and replace the filter.
anyone else experience the tranny not shifting and the engine just revving up?? SCAREY!
But she didn't do it again, and she made it up the mountain with no problems.
Car didn't get above 85C the whole trip.

I will give it Chevron no problem gas station is 2 blocks away so its the closest...:ukliam3:

Thanks will work on more vac hoses when I can peel back the ignition wires away
Not touching them til I have new
rubber connection on dius boots is old I can see one cracked

Like to find that icv & clean it
think its about a $100 part can't remember

Oh it starts cold like a champ even after days
right up fast & strong almost immediate
Never had a car start like it does

:D

Order some parts like that vac hose on line as long as MB doesn't have it
sometimes its alot cheaper sometimes not much

Tranny thing is scary
Don't know about that...

Hope its nothing serious...

:confused:

Me tooooo! on the tranny thing. I'll check the level this afternoon. I'm waiting on the car to cool off some before I change out the plugs.
The wiper refill at MB was only $4.00 and change, so you must be getting a pair from German Star. Cool.
Yep I'll be looking for that vacuum hose online this afternoon while the car cools down.

Ya never know what to expect from these old cars that have set awhile. It may be as simple as a Modulator valve needing changed. Or just the fluid and filter changed(that's what I suspect, a piece of crud in a ball valve in the tranny.
Scared the bejeebers out of me at the time though!

CS,
If it starts right up cold, the cold start valve is likely good. When it snorts the extra fuel in the chamber it cant help but start right up. After the computer registers a warm or hot engine, the cold start valve is taken out of operation to avoid a too rich mixture.

If you icvis only $100 I am jeolous, mine for a 190E is about $200 to $240 for OEM new

Don't feel jealous
I just looked it up and it may not be OEM
Says retails for $700
there price $213

must have though of anotherpart

Trouble w my car is I can't look up 83 500 sec
I have to either do 83 380 sec or 84 500 sec
then there is the chance the part won't be right
So I can't gamble w $200 parts

part says for 3.8/5.0
so I might look up 83 380 & see if part is same

Well, ICV is same on 2 years so guess thats it


http://www.germanimportedparts.com/Order/PartDescription.aspx?PartNumber=000-141-1225&linecode=141

Ignition wires is a different thing

Guess I;ll have to find it & cllean it but its hiding

:confused:

I got the tecrron conc
walked to the corner to get it
hate to fuss with that stuff at the pump
So now I have the dilemna
got about 3/4 tank & this stuff treats 20 galx
So I got to figure out qnty of techron conc..
or dump it all in & leave it concentrated or top it off with a few gal.

:grim:

Whew! The tranny was way low...Bad Charlie, BAB,Bad Charlie....I should have checked it before driving down to Valencia. Took the spark plugs out and replaced them with the correct ones, the old ones were Bosch, but have the numbers and letters RO 836. I don't know what this translates too. The old ones are not that bad, all have the nice brownish white color. but the sharp corners of the electrodes are now rounded and the gap was too big.

While I had the Air cleaner off, I did the carbcleaner trick on all the vacuum connections I could see and no increase in rpm's. noticed that some had newer rubber conn. than others so some have been replaced.

Maybe my cold start valve is bad, because it'll never start and stay running with just the key. However this morning it was cool out and it did start and stay running, so maybe it works. ??? I'm getting weary chasing this stalling out and not starting. :ukliam3:

It ran pretty good today going down the mountain.

I have an OPR coming this week.

X2 I doubt I could have said it better myself.

The Techron is ALREADY in the Chevron Premium (Supreme) gas that is for sale down the block from you at the station.

It is the only gas I have ever used for almost 70,000 miles of driving in the SEC and in that time I have NEVER had problems with the injectors or drivability. Never, and as I said, I only changed the injectors out at 100,000 miles for reasons of preventative maintenance.

Let's try this another way - "preventative maintenance" on the SEC is actually done by driving these cars, the longer and faster the better!

I tell you, mine sat around a lot this summer, but after a fast trip and back to San Francisco, it never ran better. No issues whatsoever.

I think your car desparately needs some drive time. You should go out with it tomorrow if you can, perhaps to Newport Beach Fashion Island and look around, maybe somewhere nice for lunch.

The rain blasted us a lot here last night, but now things are clean and sunny. Just beautiful. I can't speak to the issue of self confidence too much in driving, but I'd guess the car would be very confidence inspiring once you get comfortable in it. I never found Los Angeles traffic THAT unforgiving. You and the car should make a good team. After awhile you will REALLY like driving it on the highway. For these cars, nothing is better than highway driving. A trip out to Las Vegas or up the Los Angeles crest highway would be great; that car would be great going up the grapevine through Castiac up to Santa Clarita, for instance, to start.

It sounds the car is really roadable at this point. You have done a good job, but do the car a favor by exercising it. Once you get it on the highway and into a groove, you will really like it. Los Angeles is really designed for the car, the entire culture is catered to it

Put the fuel addative in full bottle and have it a little stronger than it would have been, no harm. None at all.
If you have part number you need to check after you find them on line, you or I can look them up on the EPC online program with your exact VIN and car type from Europe and confirm that it is the part you need since you have to lok them up with a diff car and year. The Online parts system can confirm that the parts are correct, it does not give MBs current price, but it gives everything else, including how many of the part is used throughout the entire car. So for say the vac elbows, it shows how many you need.

Charlie, Bad Boy,
You are not alone though, I had a similar issue and I had just changed pan, gasket, and filter in the tranny, so I just swore the fluid was fine, two weeks later the tranny was acting up like super way bad. I was so concerned, started calling tranny shops to book, everything, then it got so bad, i finally stopped at a truck stop and checkd the fluid, it was like almost non existant! I has the gasket tear along the pan and it was leaking out under pressure like a sieve! New gasket and fluid and all was back to normal, I felt like a fool, You jast have to be logical and methodical. Go by steps and logic and you can track any car issue. Good luck

Yep I ALWAYS check the tranny on a new old car when I first get them, but I didn't this time. I bet I check it a couple times in the next couple days.......just to see if it is leaking.
However there are no spots or stains on the driveway where I park it.
Incidentally, My plug wires and ends are in great shape, no cracks or anything. and the plug metal covers are great too. I kept the old plugs...just in case.

Reminds me of a trip across the country once in a 1964 restored VW Karman Cabriolet (vw Convert.) I had everything I needed if something quit on the trip. I had an electric fuel pump on it and a spare OEM fuel pump. Sure enough on the way back, I had a fuel pump problem. 20 minutes later I was on the road with the OEM fuel pump. Later learned that the only thing wrong with the electric one was it lost it's ground. Point being is I was prepared.

techron/drive...Wundabar
 

I estimated I had 14 15 gal as it was a bit higher than a half tank
So I added the 20 oz bottle & pumped in 5.2 gal in to mix it up.

I thought wo pumping gas it might sort of sit on the top.

Car started right up in garage & it was last ran 4 days ago.

Started up at pump to & it was close to operating temp by time I found a pump I liked & manuered it right
darn gas cap is on pass sidemakes it harder

Then we went to Homedepot to get screws to mount the plates
got stainless took a while to pic out the right sizes
good thing I had the brackets w me..


Started right up but temp had cooled to about 30
yet last week before my work it didn't start right up at that temp
so its better

Also started w a lower idle
1000
not the 1200 to 1500 of the past
So thats better

Also no lumpiness at stop lights now

:D

Runs almost perfect

I did hit bottom on the darn garage hump
must have got the angle not right
I do hope that didn't loosen my muffler pipes

:rolleyes:

only wierd thing was on the way home at a stop or two
I felt a shudder under my seat area
wonder what that was
hope not he muffler pipe

It really worried me
but was only 1 or 2 times

Looked for the ICV again
couldn;t see anything

OOoh welll
maybe I don't need to find it
it seems to be running OK...

:D

I would ignore the ICV for a while and drive it a couple more times to let the cleaner do its job. If it doesnt act up its fine. Some days it just doesnt start first time, it a machine. Also, 1000 rpm at start up is actualy just fine, it could settle down to 850-950 in neutral and it would be about perfect. really anything from 850 to 1000 is fine as long as it is a good steady idle and it is not going up and down a lot and not trying to fight to run. I know the manual has a specific range of idel speed, probably 850-950. First, the tach is not a guarantee that it is correct, second, if the car is running well and is driving well, + or - 100 or so rpm is not going to ruin anything. I bet in drive it settles down to the recommended idle doesnt it? around 900? Its fine.
Drive it some more and she will be fine.

Idles 650 in drive
Idles great in drive!!!!
alwasy ided that in drive
that's about right & my reading the tach could be 700 too
Its right where it should be in drive

Label on engine says 650 to 750 I think
can't recall but 650 is fine

OOOh spark plugs listed were bosch W7D
not W8D I've seen inplaces
thats hotter isn't it?
:D

I hope it likes the NKG plugs
I got them as they were non resistor
got the last 9 for $16 so its not that much
I got the extra plug as you never know you could have aproblem w one

Yeah, shes feeeling better

;)

I am quite sure that plugs, wires cap and rotor will make her behave like a dream, you would be surprised at how some cars are transformed with the new ignition parts. Just you wait to see how she runs after the new plugs. I have faith it will transform her even more to your liking

:D
Wow...

Its really almost perfect now
No trouble running
it drives
smooth strong


Just want to help bring it back to life

Really is a great car!
Soon we will both see the world
Can't wait to take it ot the beach...

:D