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Idle problem seems to be fixed!
I have been troubleshooting a bad idle, no idle high idle, and an abrupt, though intermittent dying problem at idle. On slow down for a turn or a stoplight or sign.
I changed the OPR and it fixed it for about twenty minutes. I noticed that when I would tap on the ICU when it was idling(high or low) that it would change (up or down) or die completely. ICU was suspect, but I could not rule out other things. I bought a recently rebuilt ICU on Ebay. I installed it this morning. VOILA! that seems to have worked. now starts and idles(first at about 1100, but drops back to about 900 (in park) almost instantly.) It now idles at about 600-700 in drive or reverse. Drove about 25 miles and it worked perfectly in all modes! WHEW! I really need it to idle right when I take it in to have the Smog test done. I feel really good about the car now, as I had the oil changed and they checked the spark plugs and all were firing right(they're new). All looked just like a good firing spark plug should look. Oil filter was TOAST! Can you spell falling apart! Car had had Castrol in it all it's life so I put that back in it (20-50) Am thinking about Synthetic after i get the little oil leaks (none underneath) fixed. Now to get the CCU fixed. I tried to re-solder connections but I think it was toast before I started(some traces burnt through, Nothing working but one motor(heater blower on low??? and crosstalking I'm sure)so I have to get another. Blower motor OK as it worked intermittently, either with AC or Heat. I also bought a good Heater/AC relay Before I put in the new ICU I took the old CCU out so as not to take a chance on a faulty CCU doing damage to the OPR or the ICU. One by one I'm getting through the small problems on this fine old car. I am a happy camper today! |
Good news!
I found out I have a bosch air idle control valve. Same place but sits upright It was that alum cannister I suspected. Must have been a later addition as I still have the empty socket plug sitting there for the ICV Car now is almost perfect except the hard warm/hot start Still has a hi cold start idle but thats only when cold & in park It drives fine... Took it out yesterday first day after breaking & bypassig the TVV & it runs flawlessly cept when you have to restart it hot... OOOh well, Least its working fine Old machines sometimes a bit easier w less computer headaches... I have seen ICV for $200 They retail $800 or so I heard arrghhh You clean your old one out? That sometimes helps... |
Yep I cleaned my ICV twice, once with carb cleaner and once with WD-40.
Look on Ebay for an ICV, haven't seen one like yours but I haven't been looking either, I know they have ICV's like mine on there. So Far so good with the parts I have puerchased off Ebay. One guy in in Sylmar, the others are out of state. Guy in Sylmar has good used parts. |
Well, its good you solved yours
I think my ICV is fine I saw an old listing one like mine on ebay sold for $2.99 LOL My wierd idle is just on cold start up its high in park only I can live with that but wondering where it is steming from |
Tap on the ICU smartly and see if the RPM changes, if so the ICU probably has problems. That is what mine boiled down to. Either there are Cold solder joints or there is another problem. I kept my old ICU as a "get home" repair if the good one takes a dump and I'm stranded. Same with the old OPR.
Happiness is a MB that'll start and idle like it is supposed to. |
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My feeling is with those things esp if they respond to tapping that its an electrical connection in the unit I changed all of my ceramic fuses I got my old OVR too New one didn't seem to fix anything but those things are a sure bet to give some problem after 100K So a new one is insurance Mine definitely idles at lights better I changed alot of old vac hoses I cahnged the rotor & dis cap So any of that could & should have helped I;m also running a bottle of techron cleaner Yep happiness is a benz purring down the road... |
85 500 sec
hey brothers i dont want to sound like a goof but can you descramble your texting of the parts your talking about, the reason is im having these problems myself and if i knew what the parts actually were ,i might be able to check them out, its tough getting old ,thanks in advance
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ICV- idle control valve OVR overload protection relay TVV themo vacumm valve switch Yeah, our benzes are not getting older there getting classic Good Luck, Bro :D |
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With this the idle should be high at cold then slow down to normal 500-650 RPM. Big problems arise when the aircon clicks in because that idle device is "static". the electronic devices speed the engine up as load increases. You have probably found the idle dropping really low as the car gets warm,you are in drive,air going at the lights and you want to make a turn...right?. Someone has fitted it because a fault in the electronic device has caused a high idle and they either didn't know how to rectify it or were being cheap. The heater type airslide such as have will work oK ,as long as remember that it is very limited in it's application. |
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http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w...dleControl.jpg It's a "Home Depot Gate Valve Special", requires no power connection (note the dangling power connector) and YOU can control the idle speed. :) |
ROFLMAO! Cold Milk thru the nose all over the keyboard! That is some fix albeit cheap.
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Whatever floats your boat.:) |
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wonder who mickeyed with it like that It was owned by a Rich DR Well are there really poor ones..? Maybe the curbstoner? Haven't run the air yet but it idles fine in drive 650 700 ish What would it intail bringing it back to being right? |
Would being a Euro cause it to have the airslide instead of the ICV? but you have an ICV connection in your wiring loom too. HMMM!
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The gate valve is exactly how it works....except the factory set up uses engine heat to open or close it...
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w...dleControl.jpg good ida that,except that as mentioned above you could find a proper one on ebay for $2,whereas hardware shop prices are around $10. Quote:
To convert back to stock you need to find both the airslide and a control module,if it's missing from the car. I see them on US ebay quite often. But be aware that you must get the correct parts for your car.right hand drive and left hand drive cars have entirely different parts. |
Stinkin 2 pin electrical is right there
so its very suspect but changing it back would think the housing hoses are different this sits vertical not horizontal http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=48774&d=1192686587 :(:confused: |
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I looked up usa 82 380 part has the electronic part w 2 pin |
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The Warm up regulator ( that device to the right of the airslide ) is also different to the electronic airslide. If the airslide is the only thing to have been changed ,you are in luck...almost. I am beginning to think your hot start problems are tied to this bodge with the warm up regulator not being connected properly. I have just had a quick look at one in the shop I am tuning and it has also been bodged exactly the same way. The control box for the idle is still in it's correct place though. http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y15...os18oct015.jpg |
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I had a 1983 high compression 380,semi euro engine,which had the heat controlled airslide. Heat controlled setups need the vacuum change over valve and the corresponding ignition distributor to function properly. you are getting into a lot of mucking about when you feel you need to install those. Easier to put up with higher idle in park. |
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I appreciate it This has been sort of a daunting mystery Hey its Saturday evening in Brisbane! Well have to look at the scope of it why did they go thru all the trouble of changing all those things thanks for the engine pic I;ll llook it over my vin starts wdb126044 my wur is from FRANCE???? its hooked up funny now hooked up eaven funnier as one of the thermo vac valve behind it 2 back there red 50 C is broken odd all those things them copntrolled I got alot of pics as I went thru this car from day one running a 60 page thread on figuring out this car http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=197661&page=59 It was owned since 87 by a wealthy Dr in Malibu It was then donated I can't see him butchering it http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/3...inwoairqk0.jpg |
I would say his mechanic has done this,as quicky patch up. but it's far easier to repair the system properly!.
Your VIN is a 500 SEC.so it should have the electronic idle control. Do you have the diagrams for the vacuum lines to WUR?.It's pretty important that it's connected in the correct fashion because warm up ,aceleration and general running depend on it. All of the WUR's are stamped made in france. The last three numbers of the part number should be 101. it must also have two lower connections and one large top connection. I see from your pic that the plug leads are looking old, if you have access to a multimeter,check the resistance from cap to plug end. They are very sensitive to correct plugs and good leads.Another reason your car will be hard to start when hot. You also have the rubber cover over the distributor cap. LOSE IT! Mercedes don't even list that as a part anymore because of the problems it causes. Everything from moisture getting trapped under it,to dirt causing static electricity causing spark leakage. |
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esp if its easier! \ I just replsced the distributor cap & rotor cap I got is same as one on it...??? The euro is a beast I hope that I got the correct one I don;t have ;east I dont think I have a rubber cap on distributor cap. I have bought NGK BP5Es plugs & bosch prem ignit wires & I am going to have a mechanic change I;m no mechanic but got the distrib cap & rotor done I have been changing out old vacuuum lines on WUR & anywhere I can the WUR has 3 vac hses one on top which goes to a port off the thermo ICV one in front I cant trace & one in back that leads to a t vac hose that the bottom of goes into a 50C thermp vac awitch thern goes to back intake manifold the other line on the double TVV goes to that quad hose in front which one leg goes to distributor valve another to that yellow & green air inject valve which leads into intake manifold I rteplace most of the vac hoses some were cracked or broken & thet yeloow green valve was discionnected Now that I broke the TVV I have connected that loop together & bypassed the tvv http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=48703&d=1192412309 http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=48698&d=1192408159 |
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:DThanks I really appreciate your opinion on this
You seem to have knowledge on it & I thank you for any leads you can offer to try to get my 500 sec back in form!!!! \ :ukliam3: Here;s my house in NSW Built I think in 40's out od iron bark Well my parents... Wish I was there sometimes... Dads Yute Thing its got some strange start problem too |
Night to you in Brisbane
Spent a few days at coronation hotel off the river in 86 then rented a room in a house in 86 while I looked for a house for my parents Found the farm & they emigrated from NY. Was back in 94 for 3 glorious weeks just love the land & the farm not like the city! Brisbane is nice but hot & sticky in summer Its actually a small town for a :"big" town I vistied the zoo then wnet up to Stanthrope & then down the gold coast ooooh the forest up there & the lightning storms & the sky at night full of stars OOOOh Anyway I wish you a real nice weekend & I look foward to your ideas on getting this great car back in shape!!!\\\\\ Thanks so much Night! :P |
Ahhh, so you know this hot and sticky town!.You will understand why we value our Aircon!!:)
There is NO way you would recognise this place since the 1990's.It has changed enormously since 2000. Mainly due to the resources boom,Queensland is (allegedly ) rolling in the cash. It hasn't rained much since 2001 so the humidity and big storms we had every spring have become a thing of the past. So washing cars has become illegal ...if you get caught it's big fines. You mention the Coronation Hotel..did you mean the Regatta on Coronation Drive? .You can't stay there now,it's become a trendy watering hole for the rich young things who live the Toowong area.Coronation drive has become a traffic choked nightmare . Your parents live an idilic life style.The house appears to be 1800-1900's vintage. I restored one similar in the late 1980's in Glen Innes,northern NSW. Cheers! i'll check this Euro 500 in the workshop and post up just exactly where your vacuum leads need to be.All these cars a different!. This weekend is Indy weekend so the Gold Coast is place to avoid :D http://www.indy.com.au/ I've been spending a lot of time on all these forums in the last few days trying to find info on a 500SEC I'm tuning for a customer...and I've spent more time replying to questions...LOL!!! |
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Coronation was on the river I had a room that looked out on it It was $95 a day then so after 2 or 3 days I rented a room in a house in Brisbane for about 2 days in a hotel I got 2 weeks...LOL I walked along the river into town..remember Queen St Had a friend who had a music shop around there in the late 80's. Glen Innes is not that far we are a little more north in the mountains by Tenterfeild...Yep its an old town One of the first towns!!!! but don't think the house is that old... but there are some in town late 1800's No rush on the vac advice but I would really appreciate your insight on trying to get this car back into better form thought its running ok cept for the hi cold idle which doesn't bother me & the hard warm/hot starts which is a pain.. I really have to figure out what to do with the ICV to make it run best. If its just the ICV maybe get the correct one & the tubing... So is that the 500 SEC apart? Cool! |
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yours has the airslide valve I see it also the green yellow valve is that a air inject valve mine has the green end toward front of engine not sure if there is a front & back to that valve??? but thats the way mine came Thats valve had a bad hose & was disconected when I got the car so I got a new hose & connected it to the port out of the intake That car you have looks like mine what year 500 sec is it???? Why does it also have the air icv like mine? Why do you say it orig comes with a electronic? it seems the 500 sec you are working on is set up like mine Wouldn't that seem our 2 engines may have been made like this? This is really interesting I also have that saem red patch on that wire its exact |
Ok first thins first..Good morning! :)
Tenterfeild is a nice little town, and the history between Glen innes is really interesting too,the Gay Singer and one time husband of Liza Minelli ,the late Peter Allen came from there.It was also where Australia become a sovreign Nation instead of a collection of seperate colonies. Glen Innes was the home of several Famous Australian Authors,Including Ruth Parks whose husbands works included the Peter Finch Movie ." The Shiralee" . Now to Business. These cars ALL came with the electronic idle control. This one I am working on now has been bodged like yours. The Warm up regulator should be connected so that the Front lower port is connected to the Throttle switch on the throttle body. The correct port is on the (your) passenger side of the throttle (it's down under the large airflow meter thing) . If you shine a light down there you will see a white plasti device with three hoses leading off. the top hose is the connection for the front port on the warm up regulator. The Port on the rear( at the bottom) of the WUR is connected to the left hand thermo switch device directly behind the WUR. ( you should have two of those,left and right) . This must have a large black plastic hose with a rubber tee which then connects to a port half way along the intake manifold. On top of the WUR is a hose which connects to the large black hoses feeding into the intake airmeter from the Airslide device. Now...on the opposite of the throttle body ( your drivers side) are two ports .The top port must be connected to the EGR valve.thats the big device on the drivers side exhaust manifold. The lower port is connected to the Vacuum switch,thats the metal device mounted to the left hand fender .It has one plastic line and one electrical leading into it. The other plastic leads come from the white plastic device of the passenger side of the throttle body.On the underside of the switch where you cannot see them ( :o) are two ports. The lower one ,connects to a 4 port rubber connector. The upper connects to line running from the engine to the point on the firewall where it connects to a reservoir.This a long line,around 4 feet in length. The 4 port connector is connected to the intake by the green/white one way valve.the green side is faced towards the manifold. one lead from the 4 port connector is to the ditributor. one leads to the left hand switch behind the WUR> The right hand switch activates the EGR so it's not important that it's connected ( well..not here anyway) |
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Here are three pics showing the throttle body and where the vacuum ports are located. In the first pic the upper throttle body is the type you should have.
the middle pic shows the white plastic device on the left side of the throttle body and how it connects. the third is a sketch showing how the four way rubber connector is installed. |
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has 2 lines on it I couldn;t trace...so thats the EGR? Hey thanks! alot to digest yeah knw about Leggs Diamond how could we forget the Tenterfield Saddler... Glenn Innes has sapphires better hospitals First thing I have to correct is if the green/lemon vaLVe is a one way valve & should be like yours then mine is backwards valve behind wur is OK goes to left thermo vac switch then to the back side of the intake I see your hose is off & I see the port in the intake so thats ok (at least it will be when the tvv thats broken is replaced) the top wur valve goes to the rubber port off the icv so that ok I never traced the red hose on the front wur it goes down can';t see where... Some are fine Some I; have to trace Seems that green yellow one way valve might be backwards unless thats a down under car We all know things go the opposite direction down under... LOL Thanks Helps me get going iun the right directtion! |
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Trying here
but don't see some of those ports on the throttle body inside it? under it? My head is swimming its late maybe some sleep just think as mine is a mid year 82 its not matching up with the 9/83 parts book darn Anything I am missing think there is another unattached wire on left drivers side of intake too.. I can't seem to see vac hoses on the throttle body like in the digram I'll have to takeoff air assembly & see if I can see better now that I have more of an idea for what to look for Are you sure my yellow green valve is backwards? If it is guess correcting that should be a good thing Thanks so much again |
pICS OF us 85 500 SEC
http://picasaweb.google.com/blueridgeMB/1985500SELUSSpec/photo#5038294646725557842
THIS HAS THE ELECTRONIC icv BUT HAS A different vacumn setup see a y hose in there as in my 83 parts cat also see it has a 50 & 70 TVV air inject valve is blue good pics on this site though He's got WUR on backwards! http://picasaweb.google.com/blueridgeMB/1985500SELUSSpec/photo#5038294741214838418 its the right way later Front wur vac connected to a Y vac hose? http://picasaweb.google.com/blueridgeMB/1985500SELUSSpec/photo#5038294616660786754 |
Thats somewhat later,yours is an earlier car with vastly different vacuum set up.
It's a pretty simple matter to get the air assembly off,and is in fact a good idea because the black rubber moulding underneath is prone to cracking which can cause idle problems,while there it gives you a good chance to replace any cracked lines etc. The sensor you circled with the question mark is a engine water heat sensor to tell the injection and electronic idle control that the engine is warmed up. |
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Guess its Monday in Brisbane I have had the air cleaner assembly off a few times Its no problem The rubber under it is ok I did clean the assembly was a small amount of soot I;d like to clean the throttle body but the right way not even sure how to go about that yet Been doing research so I can know my way around in that area & its hard to find 82/ 83 cars I remember trying to trace those lines most of which you say got to throttle body or throttle switch & they are hidden Been reading not to use carb cleaner in throttle body as its much too strong... I got it basically for external cleaning Good thing I didn't us it in there as there are seals & things & also a protective coating that could be damaged... Also you should dab a dot of oil on the shaft when clean...? Thats my fuel dis & air plate sensor pictured above I really don't see any vac lines hooked into it Will have to get a better look but since I live in a community garage & really working on cars is not allowed I wait til weekdays when most people are in work & then I can do it less noticed... |
Sorry,i thought you meant the upper part of the throttle body. once that is off everything becomes clearer.
I understand what you mean aboutr community garages,i'd go nuts if i lived where i wasn't allowed to work on cars.:D So far you havew nailed down the majority of things that can go break and cause running problems.The biggest single thing you can do with those cars to make them run better is to DRIVE them. The design of the valves etc ensures that the engine runs better and better the more you use it. if you want to go ahead and buy a idle control unit and it's electronic box,this guy has them cheap on ebay second hand. I've bought from him before and his prices and Knowledge are very good. |
I'll second Redlands-Mercedes-Parts. I have also bought from him, fast and good parts.
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Nice!
Thanks I bookmarked him Have to discuss this w my mechanic So far the setup has been ok just the cold idle & the worst part the hard hot starts I hear you about driving it I'm looking for places to go Too bad Malibu self destructed on me Fires all over LA Getting to be like Hades over here |
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