My dealer says that they don't like the 13000 mile recommended interval for my E350's oil change. The previous owner changed it per their 6500 mile recommendation. I am at that point with the car now. From what I have read the science based on oil analysis supports the longer interval. Furthermore the car needs 2 quarts to top it up which tends to extend the life of the oil. My thinking was a compromise that being top is up with the two quarts and replace the filter at that time. This is based on an article I found on the web where they monitored the oil every 1000 miles. http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html

Any data based guidance? I hate to break the previous owners tradition of changing it every 6500 but from what I can tell its not worth the extra consumption of resources both mine and the earths.

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MBlovr
'59 180 Dad's original
'59 180 Dad's 2nd one
'67 250SE Dad's last one
'59 220 SE My first one
'62 220SE Coupe second one
'89 190E 2.6 5spd third one
'06 E350 4matic (sold)
'10 E350 4matic

Without oil sample testing on the specific vehicle involved.
[Remember,Manufacturers lengthen intervals to make maintenance costs SEEM
lower...just as they RECOMMEND lower viscosity oils to try and meet MPG goals]
What kind of oil are y'all using synthetic OR DINO?
Without the sample testing you will never know the ongoing effects.

Who is your dealer? Always nice to know the Ethical Service Centers.

The other concern is that Mobil has started using group 3 base-stocks.

(We are running a Ford six cylinder 24 valve on Mobil1 5W30 at 5K oil+filter changes
['ran the first 5,000miles on the Ford initial fill product].At 105,000 miles presently.
It's using 16 ounces of oil per 5,000 miles just like clockwork.)

__________________
'84 300SD sold
124.128

The car has been serviced by Mercedes-Benz of West Chester Ohio I'm assuming that it has the recommended 0W-40 Mobil 1 in it

__________________
MBlovr
'59 180 Dad's original
'59 180 Dad's 2nd one
'67 250SE Dad's last one
'59 220 SE My first one
'62 220SE Coupe second one
'89 190E 2.6 5spd third one
'06 E350 4matic (sold)
'10 E350 4matic

Heaven forbid I should respond to an oil thread... but I will say just a couple of things:

1) That article was written in 2002. I believe M1 has changed their formula since then and is no longer "100% PAO". I could be mistaken and if so I am sure we will have 50 people saying so momentarily.

2) They seem to mention that they changed the filter somewhere along the way before 13,000.

3) The only way to really answer this question is to get your oil tested by a lab such as www.blackstone-labs.com.

4) Miles are not necessarily a good way to measure engine "running duration". Hours of operation and how many cold starts are more relavent. If you have a short commute and it takes you a year to do 13,000 then it might be too long. If you have a long commute you might get away with it. The only way to know is send in a sample at 8,000 or 10,000 (or both) and see what the lab says. I did it once out of curiousity.

__________________
1998 C230 330,000 miles (currently dead of second failed EIS, yours will fail too, turning you into the dealer's personal human cash machine)
1988 F150 144,000 miles (leaks all the colors of the rainbow)
Previous stars: 1981 Brava 210,000 miles, 1978 128 150,000 miles, 1977 B200 Van 175,000 miles, 1972 Vega (great, if rusty, car), 1972 Celica, 1986.5 Supra

If you are going to buy a filter and 2 quarts, what is it going to hurt to buy another 5 or 6 quarts (assuming the capacity is 8 qts)? Cheap insurance for longevity.
I treat my cars with the assumption that I will be keeping them for a loooong time. Based on that, 6500 miles on the same oil, is too many for my concience.

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It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so. Robert A. Heinlein


09 Jetta TDI
1985 300D

Well To try to answer the question as to whether I should change my oil more frequently than the factory 13K I had my oil sampled at 8725 miles since it was last changed. I had topped it up once with a quart.

The results are as follows
Iron 8
Alum 1
Copper 3
Chrome 0
Lead 7
Tin 0
Sodium 11
Dirt 5
Engine Soot Light
Fuel ---
Water neg
Solids none
Glycol neg
Visc 76
TBN 7

As best I can tell it is ok to continue to run with this oil but informed expert interpretations are invited.

__________________
MBlovr
'59 180 Dad's original
'59 180 Dad's 2nd one
'67 250SE Dad's last one
'59 220 SE My first one
'62 220SE Coupe second one
'89 190E 2.6 5spd third one
'06 E350 4matic (sold)
'10 E350 4matic

What do you guys think is the best brand and viscosity to run in a 2001 M120 V12?

Always open to opinions. Thicker, thinner? What do you all think?

I would use the same product and viscosity that came in it from the factory and would only deviate from that if I lived in Death Valley, CA or Fairbanks, AK.

In '01 it probably came with Mobil 0W/40 European Blend.

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Terry Allison
N. Calif. & Boca Chica, Panama

09' E320 Bluetec 77k (USA)
09' Hyundai Santa Fe Diesel 48k (S.A.)

I believe the important number to look at in order to answer this question is the TBN. If you went to Blackstone then he should have provided a "summary" of the results with an opinion of the miles left based on the TBN. That is how I remember it anyway. Doesn't the TBN test cost extra?

__________________
1998 C230 330,000 miles (currently dead of second failed EIS, yours will fail too, turning you into the dealer's personal human cash machine)
1988 F150 144,000 miles (leaks all the colors of the rainbow)
Previous stars: 1981 Brava 210,000 miles, 1978 128 150,000 miles, 1977 B200 Van 175,000 miles, 1972 Vega (great, if rusty, car), 1972 Celica, 1986.5 Supra

I got the sample through MBCA member George Murphy. the TBN did cost $6 extra. He said that fleet managers replace their oil when the TBN reaches 1/2 its original value. In the case of Mobil one that would be 11.3/2 or 5.6 since I have about 9k on this oil I'm losing TBN at a rate of 4.3/9k or about 0.5 TBN per 1K that would say I have about 3K more miles on the oil. That works out to 12K. Maybe the guys at Mercedes know what they are doing after all. Having said that George Murphy the MBCA tech guru recommends 6.5k oil changes. I spend my life doing engineering calculations and it is hard for me to go against the data and follow his recommendation, though the 2009 10k oil change posted above gives me pause.

__________________
MBlovr
'59 180 Dad's original
'59 180 Dad's 2nd one
'67 250SE Dad's last one
'59 220 SE My first one
'62 220SE Coupe second one
'89 190E 2.6 5spd third one
'06 E350 4matic (sold)
'10 E350 4matic

MBlovr - What are your driving habits? That impacts the issue greatly.

I drive 110 highway miles a day and no short trips inbetween. FSS lets my Diesel go 15-16k miles before it trips. Its set for the 10k mile interval. I'm at 250k miles; sent my first oil test off last week just for giggles since I'd never done it before.

Someone only driving short city trips would expirience VERy different results using FSS.

Those driving 80's era vehicles and using dino oil should ignore all extended interval threads. Its not applicable to their engine.

__________________
Terry Allison
N. Calif. & Boca Chica, Panama

09' E320 Bluetec 77k (USA)
09' Hyundai Santa Fe Diesel 48k (S.A.)

I have to butt in here a bit. Mercedes-Benz does not care about SAE, nor do they spec any oils based on any SAE specifications. Mercedes has oil specs based on their own test criteria, I believe the spec for most modern MB's is the 229.5. It will be specifically listed on the bottle of approved oils. The Lubrizol tool below shows some of the differences in different specifications in a neat chart to help visualize. Also a link to a list of MB approved oils for specification 229.5.

dataStack

MB 229.5 - Multigrade engine oils (Specification 229.5) - Mercedes-Benz Specifications for Operating Fluids



Let us also not forget that TBN depletion is not linear. Just because it may appear at first testing that it's 'using .5 TBN per 1k miles', it does not mean thats how it has trended since new. Perhaps it sheared 1 TBN or more per 1k miles early on, and tapered down as the oil settled in for the rest of it's useful life? Maybe it's the opposite, perhaps it's very low at first, and as it gets older, TBN depletion will ramp up to well over 1 TBN per 1k miles until the end of ti's useful life. You can't make these kind of blanket statements, as without data or consistent oil analysis over time, there's no way to really know.

Your dealer wants to make more money and is unethical.

The recommended oil change interval is 13K miles in the USA because there are so many geniuses here like your dealer.

These are the same geniuses that convinced MBUSA to approve dino oil for the first FSS cars.

The interval in Europe is 19K.

__________________
Kent Christensen
Albuquerque
'07 GL320CDI, '10 CL550. '01 Porsche Boxster
Two BMW motorcycles

Of course that would be 19K Kilometres - 11.8K miles - synthetic oil only.

What is wrong with following the FSS system, which the car is set up for +/- 10,000 or one year, unless you are using it in taxi service.