What did the mechanic do?!?!
 

A friend recently gave me an '89 300E with 116,000 miles for $100. He said he didn't want to mess with it since the parts were expensive and it has a "tick" in the top of the engine. He had taken it to his regular mechanic (who works on his Ford trucks) who took the valve cover off. He noticed that there was a valve "loose" and was able to "tighten it up". My friend said the "tick" got worse and decided he did not want to mess with it. Knowing I am fond of Mercedes, he decided to give it to me at a low price to get it out of his driveway.
Myquestions:
What did this guy do that made it worse?
Do I need to replace the head?
How much should I limit driving it (it runs nice and has not lost any power)?
I would appreciate any guesses, as it is in great shape runs VERY well and has low miles. I want to keep and repair it, but I cannot spend too much, as I don't have very much. Thank you so much for any assistance.

I would drive it till it won't go and then get another nice driving low mileage MB for $100. After all wouldn't want to spend money on a car with gas costing so much.

Very funny.
The point I was making is that if it is going to be too much for ME to afford fixing, I could sell it to someone who CAN afford to fix it. Not everyone has a huge reserve of money to spend.
I appreciate your advice and assistance. So helpful. I'd think if you know so much to make smart jokes, you would have used the time to possibly respond to my concerns.
Thanks

Investigate the tick yourself. This is why I don't rely on POs experiences if they are not mechanically inclined.



Do the basics. Oil pressure, Oil condition, Trace the tick to the specific cylinder. Buy a manual and so on.

General ticks are hard to find and fix online but if you need valve specs and tips on adjusting then were your Huckleberry.

You want smart answers ask smart questions. Who the hell knows what it will cost till you find out whats wrong with it. But just about everything it could be will be more than $100.

Thanks again, Steve. I didn't think my question was too broad, since I asked how tightening the valve that was loose made the tick louder. I was only trying to find out if he had done something that everyone here knows is totally wrong. But I am not a mechanic, and I am assuming that by your answer and credentials, it was a stupid question. I realize that I got a pretty great car for an amazing price, and that it will cost more than $100 to fix.

The point is that the valves aren't tightenable, they are hydraulic. Whatever they didn't accomplish can only be determined by evaluating what your condition is and maybe from that what it was.

The likely candidate is a collapsed lifter and is really not much more expensive to fix than your car cost. But it could be a worn cam which is a little pricey. If it is a lifter and it doesn't get fixed it will wind up needing a cam.

Someone who will know what to look for will have to take a look.

The "loose valve" diagnosis is bogus. The tapping is most likely tappet noise caused by excessive clearance. One or more of your hydraulic lifters are stuck, preventing automatic clearance adjustment. They can sometimes be whacked with a mallet to free up or by cleaning with something like Rislone, otherwise it's lifter replacement time.
At 116K, this engine should have plenty more life left in it, but you will need to maintain it regularly. I fgure a car always costs at least $200/month: either in average maintenance expense, or in regular car payments. You will also have extra to catch up on the "defrred maintenance" (aka neglect) of the prior ownwer.

Jed, does the ticking noise seem excessive to you? Have you compared the ticking to some other high-mileage Mercedes with the same or similar engine?

I'd give it a new oil change with the correct viscosity synthetic listen if the noise changes.

I think maybe you should just drive it till it drives no longer, could be another 100K miles.

Thank You All....
 

...for helping me out. Another friend told me it was probably a lifter, but with hearing about the supposed "tightening of the valve", I was a little more concerned, since I am not a mechanic - it sounded more sinister than a lifter. I apologize for the 'rookie'-type question I asked, but appreciate your helpful answers. I'll be more careful next time and promise to pass on anymore $100 deals to you guys.
Jed

I haven't tried anything, as I just got the car on Friday. It does seem excessive, though I have nothing but my 240D to compare it to. It is pretty clear something is up. Thanks for the tip - I will change the oil to synthetic before I take it to get looked at. Do you realy think it will last and is even safe to drive? I know you aren't here and can't hear it - and at risk of again asking a stupid question...

Thanks a lot for your help.

Jed...come on
 

a friend gave it to you for $100?.....I don't buy it Jed....really..what are you trying to pull here?

???????

Please explain

[QUOTE=Hirnbeiss;1997194]I fgure a car always costs at least $200K/month: either in average maintenance expense, or in regular car payments.QUOTE]

You and Paris Hilton are the only 2 people spending this much on cars!

I know, I know. Promise it's true. What's more is I had to make him take the $100. He bought it for his son (16), and when the mechanic told him about the valve, he wrote it off. I think he paid $1,200 for it, which is why I insisted on giving him something for it. I tried to tell him that it couldn't be too bad since, after all, it IS a Mercedes, and only has 116K on it. Almost anything wrong with it would be worth fixing (he DOES have the money). He went ahead and bought his son some SUV and called me saying "come get this thing out of my driveway - it's taking up a spot". I think a lot of the kindness came from the fact that my wife had just wrecked our '94 Jetta into something that fell off of a semi (no lisence plate recorded) and she has nothing to drive. Also, poeple who are used to driving american cars don't realize that 120K on a MB is considered 'low mileage'. He simply did not know what he had. I'll take and upload pictures...I am not pulling anything...Promise!!

As my friend Ron says, "nothing is more expensive than a cheap mercedes".

Well, you might as well do what the mechanic did and undo the valve cover. Then see if anything wiggles. If it does, and only for cylinder one, then you know what's wrong. After that, you'll have to read the manual a bit to get a feel for what's in front of you.

If you live in an area with pick & pulls, find a dead M103 motor like yours to experiment with and take apart the valve train to see how it ticks.

Then again, if you're not mechanically inclined, don't do that and just pass the car on or find it a used motor.

-CTH

Search is your friend. Search on "300E lifter". You will find lots of threads. Genarally lifters are not "too hard" to replace but it depends on your skill level. But everyone seems to agree that is the trouble and not really a huge deal unless it goes unfixed for a while and causes cam damage as Steve said. Steve's 3rd post is what you need to know. He is usually right even though I don't understand what he says half the time.

[QUOTE=mpolli;1997232]OK, OK it's budget season - I have too many K's on the brain! :silly:
I'll edit out.

based on your info,i would think that your problem lies with the bolts that hold down the rocker assemblies.the head is aluminum and the bolts are steel and one or more of the bolts [probably on one assembly] have pulled loose.there are two choices.find the bolt[s] with the pulled threads and buy some bolts that are 10mm longer [at the threads]and you can take advantage of the extra unused threads at the bottom of the hole.tighten to about 15ft/lbs.or to do the job correctly,buy a helicoil kit and redo the damaged holes.this is a permanent fix.you can do this job yourself.good luck.

All I have to say is, if you have any more friends with cars like that, then you're MORE than welcome to send them my way.

I will happily do them the favor of taking a low-mile MB off their hands for $100, day and night 24/7 365. Lol.

Oh ya, one more thing.

When I used to drive really old cars instead of just moderately old cars, I had pretty good luck with using Rislone to free up stuck lifters. It's a simple concentrated solvent, doesn't cost much, and you can pick it up at autozone.

Run that for 1k miles in combination with some relatively thin oil, and then change the oil and filter and do it again. It eats out the varnish, and will probably solve your problem, if it really is a stuck lifter.

Some people swear by the idea of dumping a quart or two of ATF in the crankcase, since apparently it's got a lot more detergents in it than motor oil and even most motor oil additives, but I could never screw up the courage to try that myself.

That makes sense. I feel confident doing this myself. Thanks a ton!

I agree with the lifter thing
 

probably not coming up, but that really shouldn't stop the engine from running properly. More of an inconvience than a mechanical problem. Plus there are lifter cleaners available that may clear the problem, plus a lifter is no big deal to change, just have to pull the cam and drop a new one in. Good Luck...

Most likely the lash cap has popped off the element. Don't think a mallet will help with that !:smash:

Ticks are mostly due to worn cam ramp and follower finger pad worn.

Pull the cam cover you lazy begger and take a look, we all wanna know !


.

I was reading through the replies to your problem and came across this one, this is exactly what I was going to suggest... so I second it :)

Thanks for that. This one makes the most sense, since there was some "tightening" of some "bolts" somewhere along the line. I have a pal with a helicoil kit and plenty of MB knowledge. We're going to get into it next week. I'll post an update and some pictures if anyone is interested. Thanks again to all for helping a newbie out.
Jed

Agree with the rocker assy bolt(s) at this stage, but believe that the cam/lifter was the cause of the initial ticking. "tightening" by a non-MB familiar tech will result in the bolt holes being stripped. I think the required torque is less than 15 lb.ft. I had to do 3/4 of them in a replacement head from an outfit that had "international" in their name. The international didn't include German:D It had about 6 that wouldn't hold on the bench test, another group that just looked bad, and group "c" that didn't hold at final install. The kicker was the instructions that actually stated that a "heli-coil was something that anyone can do". I didn't argue with that, I just didn't take if for a huge hint.

Do youreslf a favor. If there is room, use a Keensert instead of that helicoil spring.

i still say that the easiest way is to procure bolts with longer threads and try them first to see if there are any other issues,as depending on how long it has been run like that,there could be a damaged rocker arm.usually don't see lifter issues with that engine unless very old thick oil left to sit for six mths or so.

Isn't there room to drill out a helicoil and install a Keensert, if the coil fails?

I don't have any first hand experience with this innards of this motor, but in any situation where you're considering using longer bolts, you must do two things first:

- Make sure the hole has more than room to spare. A small length of wire poked in the hole will confirm this. You really, really don't want the bolt to bottom out.

- Make sure that the bottom of the hole isn't facing something moving that a longer bolt might hit. That will be even more fatal.

Also, using a mixture of correct bolts and slightly longer ones will probably cause the next mechanic to make a mistake if (s)he's not expecting it.

-CTH

cth350 do you honestly think that i would recommend an action that i had not already tried and proven?there is no speculation here i'm advising based on experience with more than one 103 engine that i have worked on for this same problem.the mechanic that tightened the bolts in the first place was probably not aware that the threads had pulled.he would have had to have had experience with this problem to have suspected this.in the holes there are 8-10mm of spare threads.if you get one that bottoms out you just use an extra 2mm of washer under the bolt head.

^^^ Yup, if the bolt hole has that many threads left, I'd use a longer bolt. That's the least invasive way.

What the mechanic did update!!
 

Well, of course it's bad news. Removed the VC, and basically reached in and pulled the #5 rocker arm assembly off :eek:. All but one bolt was broken off in the head. The top of the intake valve is beat to death and is stuck closed. Try as it may the rocker couldn't push it down and instead broke the crappy bolts the mechanic used and beat the heck out of the VC. I am assuming he used the "longer bolt" technique already:P. Yay! My planned course of action is as follows:

1. Remove head
2. Take to MB mechanic and have him: a. Replace the valve. b. Extract broken bolts and re-tap threads (Helicoil?)
3. Replace head
4. Fill with synthetic oil (10W-40?)
5. Replace VC gasket

I need to have all the parts before I get to the mechanic. Here's my shopping list:

1. Intake valve
2. Valve guide
3. Valve Keeper (2 parts, looks like a wedge mbz009142)
4. Lifter
5. Valve stem seal
6. MB Repair Manual CD's

I am pretty sure this list is not complete. Could you all help me out in making sure I get all I need? The valve is mushroomed pretty bad at the top and will need new stuff from there down. Thee seems to be a part at the top of the spring I can't find? Also, I cant find the Rocker Arm Assembly here anywhere. Any Ideas if it turns out I need one? Any other suggestions? Thanks all for any help you can give me.

Pictures of the job will be posted as I looked here and could not find the job being done.

Thanks again for any help!
Jed

You could find a used head cheaper.

Last one I bought was $100.00 with a cam too.