Please Help: S Class Questions? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

clm · #1 01-18-2009, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deanyel

Get a mid-90s S320 in good condition, maintain it yourself, and you'll be hard pressed to spend a thousand a year in maintenance. It's not really any more complicated than a 124 chassis plus has more room to work.

Sorry man, This is not good advice- The 140's compared to 126's are apples and oranges. Having worked extensivly on both these models, the 140s are a totally different animal.
A great example is a s320 that I worked on at the dealer. It was a 96 or 97- I dont remember exactly, but the gentalman had been bringing it to the dealer for the last 7-8 years. On one of his visits,the service adviser called me over to his desk. He had up on the computer the totals this guy had spent on the car in the last 7-8 years. Around $34,000!!!!!. That blew me away! Complete a/c systems,pse pumps,vacuum modules,window regulators etc ......
The car wasnt even that nice. The body had dings and scrapes, interior was so-so. The guy could afford a new one, but he really liked the 140.
Yes - this was a dealer and prices are high, but even at indy prices or doing it your self its still terribly expensive.

I would look into somthing a little less complex.

pawoSD · #2 01-19-2009, 03:55 AM

Around here I've found the dealer to actually offer better rates than the Indy shops! Pretty scary considering the dealer is currently $105 an hour!

I just had a job quoted by an Indy and the dealer, Indy was almost $100 higher!

TimFreeh · #3 01-19-2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

Around here I've found the dealer to actually offer better rates than the Indy shops! Pretty scary considering the dealer is currently $105 an hour!

I just had a job quoted by an Indy and the dealer, Indy was almost $100 higher!

As cars get more and more complex the issues associated with training, intelligence and equipment are much more important than they were say 20-30 years ago.

I'd be willing to bet that paying Steve Brothington $400 an hour for his services (and his SDS Basic system) would be ultimately cheaper than paying many independent MB techs (and all general service repair shops) that have less qualified people using lower end diagnostic equipment say $80-$100 per hour.

The hourly rate must be evaluated against the skill, experience and equipment of the person doing the work.

pawoSD · #4 01-19-2009, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimFreeh

As cars get more and more complex the issues associated with training, intelligence and equipment are much more important than they were say 20-30 years ago.

I'd be willing to bet that paying Steve Brothington $400 an hour for his services (and his SDS Basic system) would be ultimately cheaper than paying many independent MB techs (and all general service repair shops) that have less qualified people using lower end diagnostic equipment say $80-$100 per hour.

The hourly rate must be evaluated against the skill, experience and equipment of the person doing the work.

I agree but.....this was at a German Shop (top in the area) and it was just to do valve stem seals on the M103.....so my guess is the Indy shop was being (or is) greedy.

rickmoore49 · #5 01-19-2009, 12:24 PM

Given all the sage advice, if you are really interested in Mercedes cars for the long term - you need to find a really good mechanic first. Get a 240 stick or an early W124 (260E/300E) that has had the key repairs already done (search the forum). Then do your local research an find the best indy shop in your area.

I've found that your relationship with your mechanic is the most important element in managing maintenance and repair costs as well as keeping the car in good shape. Many of the really expensive repairs occur because realtively minor issues were not identified and corrected in a timely manner.

I've had a 220D stick (gone now), an '88 260E (still own - 300K+ miles) and a '97 S320 (300+ miles). The two I still have are running great. I spend around $2K on them both annually. I do almost all of the non-mechanical stuff myself (mirrors, stereo, seats, ...).

Hit Man X · #6 01-19-2009, 02:50 PM

Days are gone of easy to work on, low cost luxo cars. I own all sorts of weird vehicles, aside from my Domestic trucks, the W126s are just about as simple to work on as can be.

If you can justify Diesel costs (fuel, maintenance, etc), look into a 300SD. Great rides, very simple to operate on, etc. Also consider a late 735iL E32 BMW (stopped in mid '92), they have manual climate stuff and a 3.5L I6 that runs pretty strong for what it is...

tivoliman · #7 01-19-2009, 03:43 PM

There's more to the car than the engine. Do you like creature comforts, like heated leather seats, memory reclining seats, a great sound system, a car that holds the road, and the knowledge that you will win an any accident.

The S Class is the finest car in the world. But, please remember that a car that originally sold for $60,000, ten years ago will not be any cheaper to maintain than a Toyota from 10 years ago - but a he** of a lot more fun to drive.

Here's my word of advise:
There is nothing more expense than a cheap Mercedes.

I personally moved from a 1993 500SEL (w140) to a 1995 E420 (w124) because the creature comforts were just getting to much to fix (the seats tore, the window regulators broke, the vacuum systems failed- both, the radio died, and the rear shocks needed replaced) but the car was a joy to drive.

Yes, the E420 can break also, but has not and has been easier to fix. BTW the M119 engine (4.2 liter V8) is great.

Please see:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=236683&highlight=w124+money+pit

deanyel · #8 01-19-2009, 04:38 PM

I have both a 94 E420 and a 95 S320 and consider them just about equals when it comes to repairs. But the big advantage both of these cars have over a 126 is that they have diagnostic systems that tell you what's ailing them, and that system is accessible by a DIYer with simple code reading device.

tinypanzer · #9 01-19-2009, 06:06 PM

The 90-91 300SE is about the cheapest of the old S-classes to maintain and run, but not by much.

If you're dead set on getting an older S class (be prepared to spend some money) I'd go with one with an M103 motor and not one of the V-8s. The V8s are wonderful motors (most of them, there were some lemons) but the added fuel expense isn't good for a college budget. The M103 motor is a stout little beast with a solid bottom end. Apart from the oil leakage issues you will have to fix, and a head re-do, you will get lots of miles out of it. Unless you ran it dry, you could easily expect 200K miles probably much more.

If you spend around $3K for the car, and another $3k fixing all the age related issues such as the suspension, the head gasket, and stuff like power window switches and sliding jaws, then you'll have a damn nice car for the money.

When I bought my '90 300SE I paid $3500 and I fully anticipated spending at least $2K to get it back to roadworthy. As such, I have been quite happy with my purchase. But if I had thought that the $3500 was going to be all I was spending, I would be very disappointed.

Bottom line is - if you buy a used MB (or any car for that matter) you must factor in repair expenses into your purchase price. When you buy a used car, you are also buying problems and problems take money to fix. I would think that $2K is a good minimum number for making an old 126 road worthy again. As for a 140, they are wonderful cars but the electronics can be infuriating. I've never owned one, but I've helped a friend out more than once. He has spent way more keeping up his 140 than I have keeping up my 126, and my 126 has more miles.

Having said all that, if I had say, $10K to spend, I could get a far better car by totally re-doing a 126 back to factory spec than anything I could get for $10K on the used market. One just has to be willing to spend the time and money to do so.

-tp

Hit Man X · #10 01-19-2009, 06:24 PM

I believe the 420sel to be the bargain of the late W126s. 40ft-lbs about 1000rpm sooner makes a huge difference around town over the M103 powered W126... and the taller diff cruises about 1000rpm less on the freeway. Less wear, less noise, etc

Obviously not a quick as the 560 but you have better fuel econ, easily should match the 300sel if not better it (car doesn't have to be pushed as hard to run), and less stuff to potentially fail. V8s really just need timing guides and the chain inspected on a regular basis (100k is a good guide interval). The M103 always consumes some oil, V8s rarely do... they have a few typical leak points (valve covers, oil level sender, lower pan gasket). V8s do have intake manifold seals that go over time, labor is similar to the M103 head job... just do it and be finished with it.

The heat/vent systems are super simple to rebuild in these and AC isn't hard if you just buy some tools and budget the weekend... 134A sucks in these too. At least to me. Vacuum pods are reasonable considering how long they last and used climate heads are out there. I bought a Programma reman for $20 at my local yard.

All 126s are sensitive to tired front ends and junk tires. They're not too involved to rebuild, again with a weekend budgeted you can do it for pretty reasonable all things considered.

My 300sel is a nice ride, but it's a lot of car for that small of a motor. I bought it cheap as it wouldn't move, just idle (AC comp seized)... I'd have bought a 420 had I driven it first.

Best advice? Decide on a realistic budget and go drive a bunch of these to see what you like and don't like.

And if you can't turn your own wrenches, and enjoy doing it, stay away from these cars.

deanyel · #11 01-19-2009, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clm

Sorry man, This is not good advice- The 140's compared to 126's are apples and oranges. Having worked extensivly on both these models, the 140s are a totally different animal.
A great example is a s320 that I worked on at the dealer. It was a 96 or 97- I dont remember exactly, but the gentalman had been bringing it to the dealer for the last 7-8 years. On one of his visits,the service adviser called me over to his desk. He had up on the computer the totals this guy had spent on the car in the last 7-8 years. Around $34,000!!!!!.

I would think that fairly typical for taking any car to an MB dealership for that long a period of time, especially for a passive unengaged owner, but not at all inconsistent with my point, which was: know the car, do the work yourself and it doesn't cost much to maintain a mid-90s S320.