103 Stalling and not starting when warm...

[J.HIDALGO]

It will not start until cold and then you repeat the cycle again. This happened to me while on the highway. No warning. It just died. I had to way until the car cool down. Luckely, it was a cool night so made it home. I did not noticed a faint SRS light going on and off. However, my A/C blower was also making a sound (I changed the brushes since then and no more blower sounds.) After that day, car continues to function great when is it cold but, as soon as it warms up. It starts acting up. The last time this happened. I crove the car for about 20 minutes with no problems. I went to the store for about 20 minutes. When I came back, I started the car and it run poorly like if it was missing a cylinder or two. The symptoms where worse when I tried to accelerate. I barely made it home (less tan 10 minutes away) going about 10 miles per hour. When I got home I disconnected the electrical connections (one by one) to the EHA, ICV, water temp sensor, check all the fuses, removed and reinstalled the OVP, Fuel Pump Relay. I tried to start the car again after each item was removed. The car would not start. All the instrument lights were on. One thing I did not notice before is there was a clicking noise behind the instrument cluster when I tried to start the vehicle (Hall-effect speed sensor?). That was about a week ago. Today I started the car on the first try. Running fine while cold. While researching, I know it could be a number of things like OVP, Fuel Pump Relay, Crank Position Sensor, coil, etc.
By the way, I tried a different FPR with no improvement in the problem, I suspect this is electrical...Can the Hall Effect speed sensor stall a car...?
What gives...?

[John5788]

i had this same exact problem, it was the crankshaft position sensor in the rear. find my thread if you need more information

[J.HIDALGO]

or just replaced the part.?
How do you test the part...?

[slk230red]

Originally Posted by J.HIDALGO

or just replaced the part.?
How do you test the part...?

Here's some test results for our W201's just for reference.

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w201-190e-d-class/1419951-crank-sensor-test.html

[J.HIDALGO]

my CPS is within specs while cold. However, the car started fine this morning and now it will not start. I did disconnect a few more things before I try starting it again. I double check and now, when I disconnect the water temperature sensor (WTS) wires, in the back of the engine, it will start but, it will die after a couple of seconds. When I reconnect the WTS, the car will not start. I think we are getting somewhere here. I now need to test the WTS and see...I hope it is not a separate issue...

[pawoSD]

On ours I replaced the CPS, and both temp sensors, and its general operation improved greatly.

[Max47]

Hi J.HIDALGO,

Hummm, Stalling issue...?

The one who will be able to tell you change this part and your trouble will be gone in the world of Sudden Stalling Syndrome (SSS), isn't born yet.

The part who might stall your car are to numerous, from a defect alternator to a fuel pump and all the parts in between, it's almost a bumper to bumper situation.

Symptom might look the same sometime, with different issue.

On a more positive note, with dedication and procedure we can isolate and find those Gremlins causing SSS.

Do not start throwing parts at diagnostic, unless you're lucky, this will get you no where.

The first step in Sudden Stalling Syndrome world is to be able to read the diagnostic socket MB give you, it take me three years to figure that. Well, I'm slow.....

View this Diagnostic Socket as windows to see how your car feel, your car talk to you by those Windows.

The tools you need are not expensive and will open the windows.

You need to be able to read duty-cycle from the X/11 socket, you also need to be able to to read a pulse code reader for the X11/4 socket. All depend year and model of your car you will find the spec. in your shop manual. You also need basic knowlege in mechanic.

You will find plenty of help here if you can come up with info from those windows.

Other than that find a good shop, you trust and let them do the work, but please ask question.... Don't let him throw parts at Diagnostic.

To answer your question:

Can the Hall Effect speed sensor stall a car...?

Yeap, you bet, MB get a Technical Bulletin Service (TBS) out in 1997 about this fact. the TBS number is DDAF07_32-U-6701A, on this TBS, OVP, HES, and EHA, was pointed out as a source for SSS.

The only problem the symptom don't fits...

"Engine Stumbles or cuts-out when coming to a stop, engine idle surges intermittenly"

You see what I mean??

Max

[Oracle12345]

Did you check fuel pressure and for leaks in the fuel system?

Recently solved a stalling problem in the 1991 190E 2.6 by checking fuel pressure and saw that the pressure wouldnt hold and sure enough it was leaking @ the fuel pumps.

[J.HIDALGO]

Things just got worse. Now I have a start and die after only about 5 seconds. I wonder if both situations are related...I have not checked the fuel pressure but, if there was a fuel leak...why would it die in the the middle of the highway and would not start until the engine cools down?

[ps2cho]

I would start by actually replacing the OVP if all the instrument lights are on. Sometimes the fuses are absolutely fine, but the unit itself is shot. If it has never been replaced before in its life, then it probably time considering your stalling. The other possible culprit would be the voltage regulator attached to the alternator. These two, to my knowledge, would be the only items to cause illumination in the cluster. Start with the OVP then move to the voltage regulator.

I had the same stalling problem on my TE until I replaced the OVP. I also checked the fuses on it and it would just die randomly on me while driving.

[300EforERIC]

Sounds like you are having some of the similar problems that I had. I have a 91 300E. Check out my thread "Owner of a 91 300E looking for a cliff"

I replaced several things all of which temporarily helped but i now suspect they just needed to be replaced as maintenance.
I replaced...

• Spark Plugs
• Spark Plug Wires
• Distributor Cap
• Fuel Filter
• Fuel Pumps

Finally the Pumps are what did the trick, Turns out the primary was overheating then killing. once the car cooled for bit it would start right back up only to do it again.
*I replaced the fuel filter twice, Once a couple hundred miles before a, once during the pump replacement.

Hope it helps.

[J.HIDALGO]

It was replaced once a while back. It could be the problem. I just have to find the time to test it. Hopefully this weekend.

Thanks!

[Oracle12345]

Originally Posted by J.HIDALGO

It was replaced once a while back. It could be the problem. I just have to find the time to test it. Hopefully this weekend.

Thanks!

nmake sure its not leaking, which a fuel pressure test will show

[hookedon210s]

J.Hidalgo: My guess is the CPS---same thing happened to me. This is my experience from an earlier post:

I recently had intermittent ignition problems with my 91 300TE (245K miles). The car first started missing intermittently when warm and then after 50 total miles of operation since the intermittent missing began refused to start warm (it had the audacity to leave me stranded for the first time in the 130K miles I have owned it. After the car cooled down it started and ran fine a couple of times until it finally wouldn't start cold. When attempting to start the car at this point the engine locked up (I wondered if the timing chain had slipped a tooth or two) and backfired through the intake manifold (indicating improper ignition timing) before it finally wouldn't "fire" anymore. Although I could hear the fuel pumps operating, I sprayed starting fluid into the air cleaner and cranked the car to make sure it was getting fuel. It didn't fire once. Next, I cranked the car with the coil wire disconnected from the distributor and observed a healthy spark firing at what seemed to be the appropriate intervals. I checked the distributor rotor and since the resistance of the rotor appeared too high I replaced it with a new rotor I had available. Still no start. I suspected the CPS or the EZL was the culprit. Since it was easy to check the status of the CPS, I measured the resistance (800 Ohms) and the cranking voltage (.4V AC) and found all to be within specs. Although I am not in the habit of throwing parts at a problem, since I needed to make sure the car was operable within a very short time period, I ordered a coil and CPS from an online source and purchased a used EZL from ebay. I installed the ignition coil first (the easiest to do) and the car wouldn't start. Next, I installed the used EZL (next easiest to install) and the car wouldn't start. Finally, I installed the CPS and the car started without problem. When I removed the old CPS I noticed that the seal around the wires at the sensor itself had failed and moisture/oil had penetrated the area. It is a mystery to me why the voltage and resistance measurements of the old CPS were within spec and the system appeared to have good spark but I guess that happens sometimes. Because of the backfires I did try to use my timing light to get an idea of the timing situation but because the light was not bright enough at cranking speed, I could not confirm that the timing was off (although I know it was due to the backfiring). I pose this question to the experts like stevebfl, etc.---How could a defective CPS presumably retard ignition timing to where the engine won't run yet still seemingly operate the EZL/ignition coil properly?

I am located in Jacksonville and can lend you a used good coil and EZL unit to try but my bet is still the CPS. Mark

[tinypanzer]

Here's the thread where I posted the chart.....

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=239276


-tp