M103 engine pulling woes... need advice/moral support
 

8 hours, multiple bloody knuckles, countless swear words, and I think im almost there.

Back story: Engine is being pulled for rear main seal, low oil pressure, (mechanically verified) and broken timing chain guides.

Basically, I have everything on the top of the engine disconnected.

I was wondering if someone can guide me in the easiest possible way to remove bell housing bolts. Starter is already out.

Is there anything else under the car that I need to disconnect? As far as I can see, just tranny lines.

After all that, support the trans, and the engine should just slide/ lift out?

Some direction or tips would be greatly appreciated.

I will post pics when time allows!

thanks!

I've never done a pull on an MB, but in the past I recall reading in most of the manuals that you pull the engine and tranny together. It is my understanding that this is the recommended (read: EASIEST) procedure. Maybe others with firsthand experience can share it.

Not really a feasible option for me. My garage ceiling is a bit too low to allow for engine/trans to come out in one piece.

How about this
 

I have the same problem in my garage. But I got it all ready to come out, then pulled the car out of the garage, (pushed it by hand), then hooked it to the engine lift and pulled engine and transmission together. After I had it outside I used my floor jack to get the front end high enough to get the wheel ramps under the front wheels. It doesn't take very long to pull it out when it is ready to go, even when you consider that it is not an every day job and there are always other things that remain to be disconnected. You must have the front wheels up if you pull engine and transmission together. Radiator must be out and then protect the AC radiator with heavy cardboard and I also used a piece of sheet metal in front of the cardboard.

SOOOOOOOOOoo,


It looks as though the trans comes out with the motor.

I would REALLY rather not do it like that, I was told that the motor can come out by itself.

I already have a crammed garage, with mb parts littered throughout. I was hoping to be able to pull just the motor. Is this impossible? Or just never been done?

I don't think it is impossible to do it your way
 

It probably is a bit difficult to get those bell housing bolts out, but I think it can be done. You probably have to double up on a couple combination wrenches to break them loose and then just take your time moving them out, and then just pry engine and bell housing apart. I would suspect that is the way the dealers would do it.

It's all a matter of perspective.

Crawl under the car and get your nose near the trail of the transmission. You should be able to see all the bolts from there.

Next, get a swivel headed socket from sears with the correct bolt size (probably 17mm, might be 13mm). It's a lot easier than than using a socket and a universal separately, because the combined tool is shorter.

BTW, you should be able to take the pair out together if you can get the hood open to it's max height in the garage. The fun part is getting a good tilt on the pair.

HTH -CTH

Remember, make sure that the Torque converter is fully detatched from the engine BEFORE loosening the trans bolts, or it will destroy the torque converter.

DITTO: you must unbolt the Transmission Torque converter from the engine flex plate or you will, at the very least, dump several quarts of trans fluid on the ground, then have to crawl in it to unbolt the torque converter from the flex plate. Also while you have the engine out, it may be a good idea to remove the torque converter and replace the torque converter seal while it is accesible. just don't try to remove the torque converter at the same time as you pull the engine. support the front of the transmission [bellhousing] with blocks of wood while you are pulling the engine, and with the engine removed. I would think that the torque converter bolts are accesible through the opening where the starter used to be, but I really do not know for sure.

Thanks for the tips guys, I am leaving work early to continue on with my venture/nightmare... :)

Ill keep you posted on my success.

I have not pulled the engine but I did remove just the transmission from my M104. The bolts are tricky to get out and there was one that I couldn't see but could feel it. The secret is having enough long extensions so that you have the breaker bar or ratchet past the rear of the transmission. I didn't use a universal joint but I did use a couple of swivel extensions that allow for some misalignment. Since I was removing the transmission, I also disconnected the transmission mount and that allowed the engine and transmission to tip back and made access to the bolts a little easier.

After you remove the flex plate bolts, push the torque converter towards the transmission as far as you can (it should move about 1/2" if I remember correctly). This will make it less likely to come with the engine.

If you are thinking about replacing the converter seal as was mentioned, be sure to do some checking to make sure that you can reinstall it without damaging the new seal. The official method of installing the torque converter is to stand the transmission on end so that the converter can be lowered into position while turning it so that the inner parts engage the transmission shaft properly. Maybe someone with actual experience can comment on the practicality of installing the torque converter when the transmission is horizontal.

Good luck.

If you have never removed a M103 transmission before then removing it with very little clearance room is a difficult proposition. It's obvioulsy a much easier job on a hoist. Even then long extensions and a breaker bar are required for the top bell housing bolts.

It's even more difficult to align the torque converter with the engine and get it connected with limited access room - if you are a newbie at this.

Try to remove both engine and transmission.

best removed together
 

In the end the engine with transimisson pulled together will be much easier .The front will have to be jacked up a bit to get that correct angle at which the engine A/T come out .
The front transmission seal can also be replaced very easily once the transmission 6 bolts are separated from the flywheel.
mak
89 300SE

You guys are right.
 

I'm going to pull the trans with the engine. I looked in my garage
and it looks as though I have the necessary clearance.

Removed neutral switch, shifter linkage, all that's left is the speedo
cable, and that flex disc.

Which leads me to my next question; Is there a trick to the flex disc?
It seems very difficult to get that wrench on the back side.

Anybody got a trick? Or is it just a pita?

just a big ole pita that flex disc. lift the backend off the ground and keep turning the driveshaft for clearance.


honestly, you made a very wise choice pulling it as an assembly. the crap you would have to go through to get the very tippy top bellhousing bolt is really worth just pulling the whole damn thing out. you'll see why when you look at the empty engine bay and the bellhousing. I think that's where MB really f&$ked up the DIY guys without a lift.

That's exactly why I decided that! I spent a little time looking,
and not wrenching. I tried to get a socket at those top two bell housing
bolts, just to realize, I could barely get my fingers in there!

My buddy is coming over tomorrow to help me execute the lift out.

I've found the best place to attach the lifting chain to the engine is about halfway down the engine itself. This will give you the angle of the engine/transmission assembly needed to get it out of the engine compartment. It worked on the 450SEL and the Jaguar with its rather large straight 6 engine. I pulled the front grill off the hood to create the room needed to get the engine out.

Leaving a torque converter on the engine will not destroy it unless you're way too reckless when pulling the transmission. I have had to do this more than once when replacing seized engines where it's just not possible to undo the torque converter bolts/nuts beforehand. It does make a mess, so if you ever have to do this, keep a drain bucket nearby.

On the 450SEL, EVERY time I pulled the transmission, the converter wanted to stay with the engine even though the bolts were removed. I'm guessing it was the Allen bolts for the starter ring gear getting stuck in the flexplate. Another vote for pulling the engine with the transmission on these cars.

As far as getting the converter back in after seal replacement, get the converter started on the input shaft as straight as possible, then rotate the converter by hand while pushing it in lightly. The drive tangs on the converter will eventually engage with the pump gear.

The engine/trans is out!!!!
 

It was a lot easier than I thought....

Thanks guys for the tips.. I would have botched it certainly.

Once I get it on the stand, I will start posting pics..

Yes, pics please!

not often you see this!
 

soooo, its out.

I was disconnecting the trans from the engine, and I have a few more questions..

1, All the 6 bolts are removed from flywheel, as well as bell housing bolts.

whats the procedure to pull the engine without the torque converter? I understand the "pushing it back in the trans part" , is that done through the access hole, or after I have them separated a bit?

2, How much force is required to pull them apart?