When testing the Duty cycle, why do I get 50% when koeo
 

Accorcding to the manual i should be getting 70% is 50 considered a fault in the system and that why it does not show 70?

Really?
 

Are you asking or telling?

Asking only thing i am explaining is that it is suppose to be 70 and i want to know why its not

I give up. What is he talking about? And what model car?
Anziani
'93 300CE 181K
'95 E420118K

I think he is still celebrating New Years Day - and he doesn't want to quit

Ok let me explain further for u, When testing the Duty cycle of my
90 MB 300E 4matic the inital test (static test) before you start playing with the adjustment is to turn the key on and read the duty cycle. The value according to the manual is 70% or 4 volts, the process is highlighted in the website http://landiss.com/mixture.htm, the info i am referring to is
Static tests
It is suggested that before the active (engine-running) tests are attempted, some static tests should be performed to check a few of the basic components of the Bosch fuel injection controller.
With the ignition on but the engine not running, the duty cycle tells which version of controller is installed. A 70% duty cycle indicates the standard controller with the ability to read some faults by monitoring the duty cycle. 85% indicates the California controller, which ordinarily displays the faults as a blinking LED on connector X92, although it can be programmed to display the faults as an X11-pin3 duty cycle. 100% indicates the controller does not display fault codes in this manner, or is faulty.
Assuming the "standard" 49-state controller (70% duty cycle with ignition on but engine not running, or about 4 volts average), the following tests should be performed before attempting to adjust the idle mixture.
1) Idle Contact: Deflect the air flow sensor plate. The duty cycle should decrease to 10%. If it remains at 70% test the throttle valve switch (Job 07.3-121).

2) Full Load Contact: Open the throttle completely. The duty cycle should decrease to 20%. If it only decreases to 40% test the air flow sensor potentiometer (Job 07.3-121).

So basically what i am asking is that when i turn the ignition ON it does not read 70% it reads 50% WHY IS THAT?

I always knew there was a good reason to stay away from those 4matics. Want a good 4WD get a Ford Ranger and don't worry about duty cycle. I thought you were chasing a problem in your wire welder and now you come up with a page that sounds like it is right out of an electronics manual. How sad! Sorry about that, because I know that it doesn't answer your question. But I have been around this Forum long enough to know that the way your first post was written would never get a good answer. You got to write smarter then that to get help - good help

WOW a smart one, look buddy i asked a question looking for a answer not smart a$$ response "I think he is still celebrating New Years Day - and he doesn't want to quit" It seems like you weren't even trying to responde to the question in the first place so whats the point of responding. If you were TRYING to help you would ask me to explain in furthur detail. If you don't have anything good to say then keep it to yourself its a simple question either answer it or don't respond.

PS Ford Ranger, its almost embarrasing you own or like Mercedes.

You are finally catching on
 

You are correct! I wasn't answering you question and nobody else did either. There are plenty of people on this forum that understand the 4matics very well, but that didn't get you the answer. You want an answer, write it so we can understand it!

Yes.

I rather no one answer then get comments about nothing and have a post full of information no one needs, in that case i would erase the post so its not there wasting space. Next time ask for a better explanation instead of a comment, and your yes is a yes to stop me from posting or you actually know for a fact that it is a fault and know what is? Or should i stick with what i think and consider that to be a fault and 50% is considered to be a problem with the O2 Sensor

Not a 4-Matic issue ...
 

You're asking about setting duty cycle for the Bosch KE Jetronic. The basic rules apply to most early 90s Mercs, 24 valve included.

I'm busy right now so can't respond at length. I've measured 50% like you, followed by 50% +/- 3% when idling. The car runs fine but a year ago I saw the 75% that you mention (engine off). Don't know what's changed.

Keep searching as this has been covered at length elsewhere for 190s, W126s, W124s etc. etc.

Bon courage.

RayH

I was unable to locate, in the factory service manual that I have, anywhere that it specifically stated 70% Federal, 85% Cali when key on, engine off...thats not to say that I disagree or do not believe the information on the website..

Ensure that you have your probes for the meter in the correct places: +pin3, -pin2 of x11 connector on fender of car...and then retest the voltage..

Ensure that you are using the formula properly:
Duty Cycle = [1 - (V{pin 3}/V{max})] x 100%

I did a fair amount of work on this topic, here is some information on it, you might find something helpful in there...
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=253393

Ignoring the not reading 70%, have you checked your duty cycle with car running @ operational temp?

If you do this and get a 50% then its certainly the O2 sensor. Alternatively you could disconnect the O2 sensor with the car at operating temp and check its output voltage, its should be oscillating rapidly. If it is a fixed value, time for replacement.

Here is the chart for errors generated during that and courses of action to fix problem:

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/MafiaNicky/50006pdf2.png


Hope this helps...

Its defenitly 70% with key on for the past 4 years it has been the same thing then all of sudden the car seemed to act irregular so i changed the fuel filter after checking the fuel pressure and that seemed to correct the problem. I did also however clear the codes and system of faults but the 50% came up ever since then. I checked the O2 sensor the other day and decided to clean the sensor by means of a torch to remove the carbon build up and test it that removed the 50% fault and now i have a 30% with key on so i am chasing the ECT as the fault. The duty cycle is between 45%,50%,55% it seems to be changing a bit too much for past years its been in the 45 50 region, It seems to me that the cart is running a bit rich as it is so i will be testing the ECT today to see if there is a problem with it as well as the EHA valve since it is influenced by the coolant temp sensor. Oh and i have also have a code 29 which refers to the cfi and ezl seeing different temps.

Welcome to the forum. This is one of the best and most knowledgeable MB forums out there.

Once you start posting and contributing here, you will find that quite often there are somewhat belligerent and short tempered people who show up, post one question (usually very badly worded) and then proceed to poo-poo whatever advice they have been given. Perhaps you were mistaken for one of these types of users, and thus the response you got was not shall we say, all that helpful.

However, one must remember that the etiquette and demeanor of the folks on a given discussion board is just as unknown to a new user as the user is to the folks on the board.

I think perhaps you took just a bit too much offense at the off-hand comments made by one of our own who apparently was just having a bit of fun and not say, insulting your gene pool. Was there a more polite way to point out that you didn't word your question in a way that would lend itself to being answered? Sure. But then again, you're the one asking for help here, and you're also the new guy. One can hardly justifiably complain about the comportment of someone responding to a request for free advice, now can one? What do I know, I'm not a forum moderator.

At any rate, all of us who seek advice must occasionally remind ourselves of the old adage pertaining to honey and vinegar.


Good luck and welcome to the forum.

I apologize for the sarcastic responses above. The responders took the position that the original poster did not know what he was talking about, when in fact he was the only one who did know what he was talking about.

Did you ever resolve this problem?

My recently purchased 300E runs excellent with one exception. It sometimes stalls right after starting or stumbles for few seconds until idle stabilizes.

I checked the duty cycle from X11 connector and here are the results:

Ignition On, Engine Off: 50%
Engine at Idle: 48%-54%
Engine at 2,500RPM: 68%-72%

What would cause it to be 50% and not 70% with engine not running?

Have you replaced your OVP?

I have not and actually, ABS light came on few times while I was testing the duty cycle.

Sounds like the classic OVP failure symptoms.

I have the same reading Key-on Engine-off, that is, 50% exactly.

Pins 2 and 3 on the X11 connector read 6.25V KOEO, and battery voltage with the engine not running is 12.5V, giving me exactly 50%. The FSM clearly states that there are only two readings for duty cycle KOEO, 70% for CIS-E systems with fault diagnosis (my 300SE) and 100% for CIS-E systems without fault diagnosis (presumably some european models).

At idle I get voltage readings that fluctuate between 1.7 and 2.7, averaged that gives a duty cycle ratio of 85%, super lean, right?

I am chasing down a similar problem as the original poster: car usually stalls right away after starting, and runs rough for 5 seconds or so before smoothing out. Otherwise it runs great. Also, I noticed that at idle the economy gauge reads in the middle of the scale. So I might have a vacuum leak in addition to whatever is causing the 50% KOEO reading. The vacuum leak might explain the super lean idle reading of 85%.

So back to the original posters question: what exactly does a 50% duty cycle reading key-on engine-off indicate? Can I safely go out and buy a new OVP? Or is there anything else that can cause the 50% reading? (the ABS light is not coming on at all).

Thanks.

Me too ...
 

This concerns duty cycle measurement/adjustment on Bosch KE Jetronic (CIS) systems on M103, M104 and other MB engines.

Mine used to read 70% (or 75, whichever is right) and now it reads 50% ignition on/engine off. It hovers nicely around 52 % now and the car is running well.

Did anyone find an answer as to why some are getting 50% engine off? Or did they all get tense and pre-menstrual about posting style and then boycott the thread?

I'm sure many would like to know if any of the seriously brainy boys would help.

By the way, mine was not OVP related.

Thank you in advance.

RayH

Ray, I'm not one of the seriously brainy boys you're looking for, but I've had similar duty cycle test results, with a 90% engine running measurement. Super lean, right? Yet the fuel consumption/mileage has declined to the mid-teens city/21 hwy. At some point, I'd think we should be taking the next step and testing the O2 sensor and EHA. Maybe the seriously brainy crowd can weigh in on that, too.

I'm attacking this issue across a few cars.

190E 3.0 reports 70% Key On Engine OFF
420SEL reports 30% Key On Engine OFF
560SEL reports 80% Key ON Engine OFF

190E then throws a 50% code once its been start and has been running for a while.
420SEL runs normally, a little rich but operations are normal.
560SEL has a high idle problem, and continues to throw 80% fault.

I was talking with a gentlemen over on BenzWorld and he thinks that if the system throws a fault number with Key On Engine off that the device associated with that fault has given the CIS unit an improbable input or an input that is way beyond out of spec...

Example:
30% on a 126 is a Coolant Temp Sensor Fault. If the system is throwing this when key on engine off, then he and i suspect the CTS has gave the CIS-E a goofy value..CIS-E expected range x to y, and CTS provided something no where near that..

Thats our running theory right now, I'm going to change the CTS on my 420 and see if that clears the problem..

Lots of people having this same "problem".. Hopefully we'll get our heads around it.

Good to see the thread rejuvenated ...
 

Sounds like a sound judgement.

I'm going to start (soon) reading fault codes - I've concentrated on gearbox codes with excellent results.

More as it happens but it'll have to be after the weekend.

Thanks for response.

RayH

Ray, what car do you have?

I have a 1991 300CE-24 Sportline with Bosch KE Jetronic (CIS) injection and 5-speed 722.5 auto box. 350 K Kms on the clock.

I built a code reader (count the flashes, not too sophisticated!) and this enabled me to erase a gearbox fault that had put the 'box into some sort of safe mode. It's now performing as it should be with all 5 gears. Component cost of reader: €15.

I read the codes from the 16-pin (4 mm sockets) diagnostic connector close to the battery. Oddly, I've seem more information on the socket related to W129 cars than W124. Nonetheless, it is installed on a limited range of W124 cars.

I shall use the same reader to examine engine issues, possibly this weekend, weather permitting.

More as it happens.

RayH

If this helps at all, it's on my '91 300SE with the 103 engine, 49-state.

Key on engine off, but warm:
- DC = 50%, always has since 1991.
- Open the throttle between 10% and 90% open, DC = 10%.
- Open the throttle all the way and engage the under-pedal switch,
DC = 20%
- Press the air valve down, DC = 40%.

Crank the engine:
- DC switches momentarily from 50% to 70%, then back to 50%.
- After a few seconds, DC begins to fluctuate around 50%, as O2 sensor
comes in.

All the above makes sense to me:
Initial 50% without lambda control is normal, either without engine running, or before O2 sensor warms up.
Opening throttle with engine off should set a 10% fault code, which is throttle position fault.
Opening the air valve with the engine off should set a 40% fault code, which is an air valve fault.

So, I conclude those portions of my system are performing OK.
But I still have the 5-second hot-start chugging problem, which I have been chasing for 10 years.

DG
o