1980 Euro 280CE Won't start - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Fulcrum525 · #1 08-20-2010, 06:30 PM

Ok a friend just got this car the other day. It has a high idle issue that I don't believe is connected to this....

It started just fine every time (Every once in a while the starter would stick if you tried to start in two or three times in a row) Earlier I whet to replace a blinker bulb and I swapped out one of the euro lights. I had the headlights on for no more then 15 seconds to test the lights and I started it two or three times before I started the change.

Here is the annoying part though, after I did everything I went to start it and all I got was a 'click' from the starter. I thought it might be a bad battery so I connected my car with some jumper cables and had a friend rev it. Still nothing but a single "click" from the starter.

Is it just the starter motor that's bad or will I have to look deeper. Also if it is the starter how the heck do I replace it (I can't even see where the darn thing is)

(Fuel pump is new, spark plug wires are also fairly new)

alabbasi · #2 08-20-2010, 10:06 PM

Give the starter a knock with a rubber mallet and then start it.

Fulcrum525 · #3 08-20-2010, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alabbasi

Give the starter a knock with a rubber mallet and then start it.

I was thinking about that (And here comes the embarrassing part....) I can't find the darn thing

I'm guessing that it isn't all that different from my car (Looking into the engine bay from the front it should be on the drivers side of the engine towards the bottom?) On my car it's easy to see (and hit) but on the 280 EVERYTHING is on the right side of the engine bay....Perhaps I can get at it from underneath or i'm just overlooking something?

(You'll have to excuse the fact that i'm used to diesels)

alabbasi · #4 08-20-2010, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fulcrum525

I was thinking about that (And here comes the embarrassing part....) I can't find the darn thing

You generally find mallets in tool boxes, if they can't be found there, then a 2x4 and a hammer will usually do the same job. Just lay the edge of the 2x4 on the starter which is located on the right side of the engine (from the drivers seat) which you should see if you look right under the manifolds and smack it with the hammer.

Fulcrum525 · #5 08-20-2010, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alabbasi

You generally find mallets in tool boxes, if they can't be found there, then a 2x4 and a hammer will usually do the same job. Just lay the edge of the 2x4 on the starter which is located on the right side of the engine (from the drivers seat) which you should see if you look right under the manifolds and smack it with the hammer.

I was referring to the starter, plenty of mallets in my garage

I'll have to drive over to my friends house tomorrow but i'll give this a shot (HOPE it works, starters aren't cheap) I was trying to find the starter but 280 bays are jammed full of stuff and I just couldn't see it. (I love my nice plenty of room 603 engine bay

)

That is an 280 SLC but the problem is the same, lots of stuff on the right hand side getting in the way.

alabbasi · #6 08-20-2010, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fulcrum525

I was trying to find the starter but 280 bays are jammed full of stuff and I just couldn't see it. (I love my nice plenty of room 603 engine bay

)

That is an 280 SLC but the problem is the same, lots of stuff on the right hand side getting in the way.

I have a couple of 280CE's and recently did this job. you can get it out pretty quickly with a lift but I would hate to do that job on my back. The starter is Bosch SR59X which is common to a lot of MB's of the era. I bought mine rebuilt for about $90 and it came with a lifetime warranty. I have a 280SLC engine just like that out of the car.

Fulcrum525 · #7 08-20-2010, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alabbasi

I have a couple of 280CE's and recently did this job. you can get it out pretty quickly with a lift but I would hate to do that job on my back. The starter is Bosch SR59X which is common to a lot of MB's of the era. I bought mine rebuilt for about $90 and it came with a lifetime warranty. I have a 280SLC engine just like that out of the car.

I figured it would be easy to get at it from underneath but the car is parked a few miles from my house (Where there are no tolls

)

Might I dare ask what hitting the starter actually does to it mechanically?

alabbasi · #8 08-20-2010, 10:43 PM

It's an electric motor. The solenoid sometimes get stuck as it gets old, hitting the starter will jar things loose. It's usually considered as a temporary cure as this is an indicator of the starter being on the way.

Fulcrum525 · #9 08-20-2010, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alabbasi

It's an electric motor. The solenoid sometimes get stuck as it gets old, hitting the starter will jar things loose. It's usually considered as a temporary cure as this is an indicator of the starter being on the way.

I thought as much. When I did the 3.5 to 3.0 transplant the starter came from the 3.0. It sounded pretty harsh (Grinding) on start up so I knew it was on it's way out. A few months later it packed up and even hitting it didn't work. (By the sound of it you could tell it was too far gone I guess) On the 280 it sounds prefect while starting so I guess it just got a bit tight this one time from those few start/stops. I'll give this a shot tomorrow (So long as I can get it running for at least a few days it will give me a chance to pull the starter and get it rebuilt preemptively)

Quote:

Originally Posted by alabbasi

....the starter which is located on the right side of the engine (from the drivers seat) which you should see if you look right under the manifolds....

Well no wonder I couldn't find the darn thing

I was looking all over the left side of the engine (From the drivers seat)

Guess it's the opposite of the 603

oops

Fulcrum525 · #10 08-21-2010, 02:57 PM

Ok Sitrep.....found the starter and beat it with a board, and a mallet and finally a metal bar being hit with a ball peen hammer and i'm still only getting the tell tale 'click'. It is pretty hard to hit the starter as it's under the manifold and there is a heat shield in the way. I hit it from underneath as well and based on how it looks i'd say that it's the orignal starter (Car has a little over 200,000 miles)

So I guess i'm going to have to pull the starter and get it remanufactured. So now the problem is getting the car to my house where the jacks and the tools are. Does this model have the transmission that allows you to pull start it (N to L at around 30 mph)

alabbasi · #11 08-21-2010, 03:24 PM

I don't think so! Rebuilt starters are around $90. Why not buy one and then give them your old one as exchange?

Fulcrum525 · #12 08-21-2010, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alabbasi

I don't think so! Rebuilt starters are around $90. Why not buy one and then give them your old one as exchange?

Assuming the shop i'm looking to call will do that (How hard is it to pull the starter? (I can see the 3 small bolts on the front that hold the wires and at least one larger bolt towards the back.)

I just want to make sure I get this right the first time before I dive into trying to remove this thing on the side of the road with the cars jack.

david s poole · #13 08-21-2010, 05:05 PM

that trans has the rear pump so you can start it by towing at about 35mph.

alabbasi · #14 08-21-2010, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fulcrum525

Assuming the shop i'm looking to call will do that (How hard is it to pull the starter? (I can see the 3 small bolts on the front that hold the wires and at least one larger bolt towards the back.)

I just want to make sure I get this right the first time before I dive into trying to remove this thing on the side of the road with the cars jack.

I think it's two bolts going in through the front and one going through the back of the started.

cth350 · #15 08-21-2010, 07:11 PM

Having just pulled four starters this weekend (from motors not in the cars at least)...

1. Disconnect BOTH battery cables from the battery.
2. Put the car on jack stands at the front.
3. Crawl under by the tail of the transmission and look forward on the passenger side. You will see the upper starter bolt from this position. It's either a 10mm "in-hex" head (needing a 10mm allen key) or it's got a conventional 19mm head.
4. Get a 10mm allen key in a socket or 19mm short socket, whichever's the right kind from step 3, and put it on swivel joint with the longest extension rods you can muster to reach that upper bolt. You have to reach it from back by the tail of the transmission to do this.
5. Undo the wiring on the starter. Should be a little cheese head screw that needs a standard screw driver and a 13mm nut. You may not be able to see them well, go by feel and instinct.
6. Undo the lower bolt on the starter. We saved the easiest one for last. It too is either a 10mm in-hex or a 19mm standard head.
7 Pull out the starter. You might need to turn the wheel fully to one side or the other to work it out of there.

When getting a replacement starter, make sure the lower bolt on the starter matches what you get. Some starters have that lower bolt hole threaded, others use a longer bolt and there's a separate nut on the end. The parts book will tell you how it left the factory. It won't tell you what some other guy did in the intervening 30 years.

Installation is just as easy.

HTH -CTH