Gas Mercedes Recommendation
 

Older Diesel Mercedes are getting tough to come by around here in the DC area, especially w124's. As such, in my desire to get into another Benz, I'm starting to look into the gas models too (300E, E320, etc.).

I want a daily driver that I can keep and maintain, but I also want something somewhat reliable. I know that gas motors aren't going to hit the 320K I have on the diesel, but I really just don't know where to start in terms of which of the gas models are most highly regarded by the experts around here.

Thanks for any help/advice!

Joe

The gas motors will do as many miles as you want them to, they will just cost more getting there. :D My dad's 420SEL has 290k on the original engine, head was redone/new cams/timing chain about 75k ago. Runs beautifully. My 300E has 157k and hasn't had much engine maintenance done other than fuel injectors/sensors/valve seals....etc, also runs excellent. The 420 gets about 19 city 23hwy driven *normal*, driven hard its more like 14/17. The 300E gets about 18 city/27hwy.

In a W126 I'd go for a 420SEL and in a W124 I'd go for the 300E (M103) in my opinion. :D

Are the lower ends on the gas motors pretty stout? I would fully expect the top ends to need rebuilds after 200K miles even on a well-maintained motor.

I'd recommend a facelift W210 with the V6 motor and 5-speed transmission.

That way you won't be roaring down the highway at 3500 rpm and you'll be getting reasonable fuel economy--it's Mercedes' first modern motor and a good one, save for a couple sensors that require frequent replacement.

It's really just a mind game talking about high rebuild mileages--why does somebody want a car that won't do anything--like a W123 diesel--when there are real performance cars out there. The W124s were cool in their day but are now hopelessly obsolete.

M111 is bulletproof, especially non-kompressor version since there is no PCV valve.

I freely admit that I'm hopelessly ill informed of the later w210 models....as a Diesel owner, I hadn't heard anybody say anything really good about Mercedes quality after the w124s.

One of the reasons I enjoy the diesel is that I can do much of the work on the car myself. Seems to me that anything after about 1997 or so is just inundated with complex electronics and stuff a mechanic or dealer has to fix.

Anyway, I will look into a w210. What years are "post-face-lift"?

The V-8s in the '80s S-classes sure are. Expect them to run as close to forever as any diesel.

Drive a 500E hard and then see if you still feel that way. :D

Seriously, I'm always baffled when people refer to the W124 as "obsolete." The car was about 20 years ahead of its time at introduction. About the only things of any significance that modern luxury cars have that it doesn't would be navigation, stability control, and traction control (although the last was an option in later cars). It is fast enough, especially the V-8 versions, and has a wonderful direct feel to its handling that modern cars with more complicated speed-sensitive (or worse, electric) power steering systems lack.

I'll willingly agree that a 123 or 116 looks and feels like an old car. But with Euro headlights (or in the facelift '94-'95 version) the 124 still looks modern to normal people (i.e. not car geeks); many people have asked me if mine was a new car. Yes, current sport sedans are much faster in a straight line. Are they that much better otherwise? I'm not convinced.

A W124 is by no means obsolete, even the Base 300E is plenty nimble/quick, it wasn't ever really intended to be a sports car....

Factor in that my 300E has always been paid for, costs me about $400 a year to insure....and maybe $700-$1000 in maintenance/repairs on average so far.....I think I'm doing pretty good vs. the $600 a month payment and $250 for insurance for a new e-class! :eek:

I get a lot more comments/compliments/questions driving around my 300SD than I would in a modern MB. Modern MB just means your trying to show off you're rich to compensate for something else that may be lacking. :D

I will agree with the 420sel w124 body. i bought mine 8 yrs ago (1987 model) and have had the front end done along with the heads. it did 900 miles a week from austin to ft hood.....for a year...solid car if you can get your hands on one....big body....safe and heavy...i get 20-22 miles a gal....from marfa to austin is 410 or so miles...and can go on one fillup....solid solid car

lyle

I'd say the straight 6's are easier to work on and the later 24V versions have plenty of power. I'll have an Imperial Red '95 wagon and cabrio for sale in a few months in the DC area.

Mercedes gas motors will run just as long as any diesel.

IMHO the best bargain now on a used Mercedes are the 2001-02 E320/430's. They are old enough to be cheap, but still new enough not to be a project. Great mileage, lots of power, easy to work on, not much goes wrong, what's not to like? The M112/M113 are nothing special by modern standards, but they run good and their isn't very much that goes wrong other than a sensor once in awhile. The 722.6 behind them is a fantastic and by that time bullet proof gearbox. My friend has close to 220k on his and its still going strong, wouldn't be surprised if it went over 300k miles. On one ATF change to at 150k!:D You can even get them in AWD if you live in a snowy area.

Personally I'd get the V8 since its got more power and there really isn't a downside.

Change the transmission fluid every 100k, oil every 10k and call it good. Spark plugs are a bit expensive but they only need replacement every 5 years or 100k miles so not a huge concern.

Joe, I recommend a 1994 or 1995 E320. Their 3.2 liter double overhead cam engines have 3-coil packs and don't need distributor cap/rotor replacement ... a more sophisticated engine and brighter headlights than in earlier 124 models.

I was reading that the 300's before like 1993 do not have to be operated with premium gas....I like that.

Wouldlndt the v8 do much worse on gas mileage?

My mother's 2001 E430 routinely gets 20-21 mixed mpg, mostly interstate driving. If its any consolation, my 560 even gets 18 if I don't push her too hard.

We haven't had any issues with the E-klasse yet, considering it has 40,000 miles on it, and my 560 is currently at 220,000 ish with moderate e.g. between 1-2000 bucks a year in indy performed maintenance.

The 430 is also faaast. Like, plant you in your seat fast. While only 1 second faster to 60 than my 560, the added girth certainly helps transfer the energy more evenly to my body. Having also owned a 420, economy is no better than the 560 in my experience, plus the 560 has the benefit of luxury options.


-Carlen

My '95's run fine on regular.

Yeah,

Around here the 2001-2002 models are just too expensive for me....I can't be paying the 8000 to 10000 they're asking around here for those models.

There are some 1999 E320's for sale reasonably priced, but everything else reasonable is in the 1990-1997 range.

It's good to know what to look for....

There are some decent looking 300E's and 260E's for sale....and a couple of 420SE's.

Average condition or lower 124's are pretty cheap now. There is an '87 300D with 226K at a dealer auction tomorrow that I could get for $500 and a green '95 E320 with 186K for under $1000 but nobody has bought them. They need some work but are decent cars that few people want now.

Pretty much all the blocks in the gas engines, properly maintained, will probably outlast the car. At least that's the case from what I've read and experienced. I had a 300E that my parents still drive that easily must have 350k miles on the original lower end. I now drive a 2000 C230 that has 190k on it.

The newer cars have more convenience features and fuel economy, although at some point you start to lose out in terms of systems complexity. OTOH, I was constantly working on my 300E - in the three years I've driven it my C has only required regular maintenance, an oxygen sensor and the front flex disc.

My highest mile MB is a gasser at 275,4xx 300SEL, it just needs a valve job. Coming as soon as I finish my 735i's AC up. That M103 still runs fine. The economy is pretty lame in the car for what it is (power to weight ratio blows), best bargain to me of the W126s is the 420SEL. Less crap to fail than a 560, considerably more torque over the 300SEL, and a bit better on fuel compared to the 560. 300SEL is nearly as fuel hungry as my 560 as it is very poor in the city for driving. Open road at normal speeds 65-70mph is a wash.

Most of the V8 W126s in the JY are there due to a broken timing chain rail, not due to bottom end issues. Yes, I think they will need a valve job around 250k.

Remember the V8s of the '80s had those alusil style cylinder linings that basically do not wear (like BMW's M70 V12). There is a jumped chain '86 420SEL at my JY with about 210k on it... still has cross hatching in the cylinder walls (one head was removed already).

I am sure most of the MB Diesels past 250k could benefit from a valve job.

Newest W124 was built in 1995... that is a LONG time ago. Newest W126 was built in 1991... (US markets obviously)



Anyway, narrow down to what chassis you are after then go from there.

I think in terms of my garage and space limitations, I'm going to be shying away from the w126...especially the "L" designations. I like the w124 styling quite a bit, but won't turn down a nice w210 if I find one.

I am talking to a guy selling a 1991 300E 2.6 that has only 128K on it and it is in impeccable condition with all systems working just fine.

S320 is easy to work on.If you get into V blocks you lose space to reach things.

Agree totally. The M103/W126 combo is underpowered for typical American driving conditions (suburban stoplight races and short freeway on-ramps). I wish they'd put the M104 in the SWB 126---that would have been a match made in heaven. Enough power, decent fuel economy, acres of empty space around the engine to work on it.

Alex

Well, you read wrong.

Ok...

So all Mercedes gas motors are "premium" only? Again, forgive my ignorance, please.

All burn high octane, unless you water/meth inject,then you can burn regular.

If you are willing to pony up $500 for a scan tool.

Ma Benz may have specified premium back in the day but I know several people who run regular in their M103s with no significant power or fuel economy loss. If it doesn't knock or ping, it's fine.

OBD2 scanners are under $100, I think I just saw one for $60. These days I would expect just about anyone who works on cars to have one in the tool box.

An OBD2 scanner won't get you very far on a Mercedes.

Works on the common stuff like MAF sensors, O2, coils etc.

The only time it let me down was on my Chevy, wouldn't read airbag codes.

Exactly. You're flying blind---missing the vast majority of trouble codes and scan data---if you don't have a scanner that can hook up to the proprietary connector as well as do OBD2. This is about the cheapest one I've found that's adequate:
http://www.autoenginuity.com/products-software.html#EI17

That's nice, that's probably worth the money if you have a couple of cars. Its not necessary though.

YES, and imagine the 104 with a five speed manual or even the five speed auto. One can dream. :)

Joe, I realize you can only choose from the 124 cars that are for sale now, but be aware that the 1994 & 1995 model headlights are much brighter than the 1991 model headlights. If you don't do much night driving then it doesn't matter.

Recommend using premium fuel if the Owner's Manual and fuel filler door sticker for the 124 car you buy specifies "premium fuel only". Any savings from using lower octane fuel will be offset buy degraded engine performance and potential engine damage.

At this point, I'm going to be needing a car for everyday transport in the near future.

I looked at another w123 last night, and while it was lower miles, and rust free, the paint had degraded quite a bit along with some other issues.

I'm willing to accept any w124, w210, or even C Class if I can find a good, reliable one in my price range.

I have no issue with the premium gas, I just thought I had read that before on here, that's all. My main concern is reliability and my being able to work on it myself to an extent.

There is a 1989 300TE in Rincon, Ga for sale. It is only showing 142k miles. The guy is asking $2800 but it has been sitting there long enough you may be able to pick it up for $2200. Says it runs good and a/c works. I did not test drive it but the car looked good with no rust.

The phone # on the windshield is 912-655-8989.

Those prices are crazy, even for a dealer auction. Apparently you live in the same fairyland as some of the people on the boards here, where the Pick-N-Pull sells heads for $50 and climate control PBUs for $10. ;)

Seriously, you could buy that 300D, Band-Aid whatever's wrong with it, drive it to Portland or San Francisco, and flip it for $3K right now.

The M104 was definitely offered outside the USA with a stick, in the 124 and probably also in the 126. If you really want one, theoretically you could find all the parts used. Have any friends in Germany?

Alternatively, the M103 and M104 must use the same trans bolt pattern, since they were both offered with the 722.4 automatic. Therefore a 190E stick swap would be doable. Only question is whether it would handle the extra power and torque...

What's the overall opinion of a 1992 400E?

There is one for sale locally that has like 138K miles on it with all maintenance records since new. Owner wants about $4500 for it.

It's in very nice shape at least from the pictures I've seen.

Wiring harness should have been replaced by now. I would want to confirm that it has been replaced. Oil tubes are known to break. Power steering system is know to leak with age. Also any early ASR car can be problematic.

I can attest to dirt prices at times. I have purchased high dollar MB Diesel alu heads for $40-70 on sale, seen just about every odd ECE car in the yard, etc. You have to catch them on their half price days to really receive the steals at the big yards. Small ones know good cars, but not the specifics... I paid $60 for two gorgeous W126 front grey leather seats.



The five speed with the M103 would be simple and we know it works, I tried to buy a 280SE with a five speed W126 here a few years back. So I know manual trans W126s do exist too. :)

I believe an EFI swap to the M103 and a manual trans would run fantastic, enough to rival an M104 with the five speed auto at least.

FWIW to anyone, I have been running 87 octane in my 300SEL for a while (years) now with NO ill effects. I know another member that has been doing it for longer than I have been with no problems. The ignition timing is very low on this motor so there is real no sense in using 91+. I have no performance loss nor mechanical issues.



I have always liked the 400E. Does it have the evap core and harness replaced? If not, that is some serious asking for the car.

Owner doesn't know about the Evap core and harness.

I've basically narrowed it down to a six cylinder w124 or w210.

There are a few examples of each for sale around here, and I'm likely to jump on one.

I'm scared by the evaporator and harness issues on the w124s (just the evaporator on the earlier ones).

I would guess that the early w210's have the same issue with the harness, and maybe other issues as well.

Similarly, the suspension on the wagons worries me quite a bit.

I'm wanting to stay at 4K or below, so in that range what would be best in terms of longevity and drivability?

Thanks so much, as this discussion has largely shaped what will be my next purchase!

I just hope you are a good DIY'er if you're spending just $4K on a Mercedes daily driver.

I spent $1500 on my 300d w123 and drove it a year without issue. I can do most repairs that don't need special tools or special training. He DIY aspect is why I am looking at w124s.

Damn I'm getting rid of my great condition 300E soon. Tons of maintenance (NOT repairs) done last year and a half, but I have to figure out the VIN issue with the DMV (car was theft recovery back in 1991 and missing public tag...clear title though). At the speed the DMV operates I doubt I'll have it sorted in time :(