1996 s500 ASR roadside help needed urgently
 

Hi guys, I really need urgent help I we departed on our holiday travelled 500 miles no problem. Started up this morning as i accelerated the asr light lit up, no other warning lights, obviously went into limp mode. I shut car off restarted and drove another 400 miles no problem. When starting up again asr lit up, shut car off start up fine for the days drive.

What can cause this my toughts rests on the throttle position sensor, as other sensor will have deactivated the abs as well, right? And abs stayed active.

cant pull any codes now but this car does not have a cel
,

Peet,
Welcome to the club. I've had the same problem on a 300CE for TWO years. Got a lower limit switch code. Eventually replaced everything except the roof! Still can't find it. My indie has a friend that is a retired master Mercedes mechanic. He has taken on the project as a matter of honor. He thinks the problem is in the throttle linkage although the adjustments are dead on. And the problem is if you make an adjustment or change and run the car, you have to wait until the next morning to see if you have done any good.
If either of us finds the answer, I hope it gets posted. :confused:

Anziani
'93 300CE 200K
'95 E4250 122K

I had this problem with a W140 400SEL when it was new.

Took months for the dealership to find the problem. Even then it was never clear if the problem went away - it was intermittent.

Check the brake switch under the pedal.

Thanks for the replies
 

The car did the same thing this morning, switched it off restarted, asr went away. I found a dealer here went there wanted them to pull the codes, had to make an appiontment. So tomorrow I will take the car to have the codes read.

What linkages can be adjusted and how is adjustedment deterimined?

More important, if I get stuck on the side of the road, can the asr be disabled somehow so that the car can be driven home, pul a fuse?? can it be done

Presure wash??
 

I just realised, that the day before my asr problem started, I had the chassis en engine presure washed, after the presure wash the engine missed a bit and ran unevenly for about five minutes and then returned to normal.Following day the asr issue started, can this be related?? Is there any connections I can check for possible moisture?

In my two years of this agony, I have never been stranded. I just pull over and restart. What I have noticed though is my problem is temperature related. The colder the mornings, the more times to restart.
On the 300CE there is a microswitch on the throttle linkage below the instrument cluster. We thought this was the answer, but it wasn't. There are definite linkage adjustments to be made on some cars. The brake pedal switch is a suspect along with anything in the brake circuit including the bulbs. The wheel speed sensors are fair game and make sure all 4 tires are the same make and diameter. I assume that your wiring harnesses are good.
If you DON"T get a warning light then you have the same problem as I have. We get only one fault and that is a "closed throttle idle switch"
Keep us posted please. :confused:
Anziani

Certainly can . . . check the NSS mounted on the side of the tranny. If it's original as was mine, it's probably is toast!

Read Menu#24 for details of a 'going-bad' ETA. Details of my bad NSS are toward the bottom of the page.

yep

Thankyou for all the replies
 

Car went into the dealer this morning to diagnose codes on asr. I will have then check the NSS as well. Will report back just as soon as I have the codes.

"The brake pedal switch is a suspect along with anything in the brake circuit including the bulbs"

You're taking a 15yo 140 to the dealer for a diagnosis? Ok, they'll gladly sell you every new ETA, wiring harness, and switch for 5-6 grand any day! And they won't solve your problem.

Jim or moderators........there DESPERATELY needs to be a STICKY on M119-era ASR problems.

Literally..........my 400E would do this either in RAIN or in COLD WEATHER. The SOLDER was broken on a TAIL LIGHT. A TEN DOLLAR fix.

DO you think reading codes at the dealer will fix this? NO

The ASR light will come on, it will point to "system X" and then 90% of the shops out there, who haven't worked on these cars for this issue in the past 6 months will tell you everything needs to be replaced!


People, either study up on these cars with ASR before you buy them, or just bend over and take it. Understand WHY an ASR light comes on, UNDERSTAND limp mode and how, even though it seems OMG CATASTROHPHIC, it USUALLY NEVER IS

Bottom line:

1) We need a sticky about these issues from someone like Jim or MBDOC. The question is being asked every day
2) People with 90-s vintage ASR cars need to learn from the get-go to associate "ASR light = anything under the sun related to any eletrical connection, switch, contact or bulb in between the ASR computer and the taillights."

DEALER CALLED
 

Right just had a call from the dealer, no error codes present, basically they do not know what to do from here??????

Start investigating your taillights, make sure everything works. Pull the taillight connectors one at a time and see if the problem stops. NSS, brake switch, has anything else changed since this problem occured? 500 mile drive - is that unusually long for this car? Sounds like something is getting hot and failing.

Any other symptoms at all before this started?

I have seen, on certain late model Jaguars, where whenever the owner would run the car through the car wash it would go into limp home mode and throw multiple codes. Seems that there are some openings on the cowling at the base of the windshield that if left open will allow water to drain down onto the main connector at the back of the engine. You may have a situation where a connector got wet and now that it has dried out it is fine.

I am going to assume, since they did not get any codes, that the ASR light was not on when they went to read it. Could reinforce the above scenario.

I will make sure of the taillight connectors, nss and brake light switch i will replace cheap enough.

No symtoms prior this care has been maintained to perfection 78k miles bought it new, thus one owner car.

frequently on long journeys.

just an ignorant question some time ago I had a blown brake light bulb, sure enough the light out warning light came on but asr still worked no asr warning? replaced bulb with oem bulb that was six months ago.

just before the asr problem began i had the chassis en engine presure washed, perhaps moisture got trapped somewhere?

[QUOTE=peet230e;285034

just before the asr problem began i had the chassis en engine presure washed, perhaps moisture got trapped somewhere?[/QUOTE]

Like Jim said, and engatwork, yes. I've had this happen in rain and snow, even when the car wasn't driven in it. Rubber and connectors age and degrade, and moisture is always an enemy. Just like with old window seals, tops, etc.
At this age, i'd garage it if possible and use it on dry days. That will probably get you 5-7 more years without a hard failure. Just my amateur hunch.

These older cars will run forever just like the old 123s, but unlike 123s, there are a LOT more teeny tiny points of failure. Think of vacuum line failures and 123s and multiply them by 10, divide them into multiple eletronic subsystems and functions, and there you go

If I had any money to bet I would say that moisture got into an electrical connector causing your issue.

Anyone who tells you there's no codes when the ASR light is on is just trying to get rid of you - having made the moral decision that cheating you is just too much trouble. You should take this as a sign that it was the wrong place to take the car in the first place.

With my 2 year old problem I'm following this thread with interest. I throw the same code consistently but I complicate the solution by NOT getting any warning lights (no ASR or Check Engine) After 2 years it is more a battle of wits than a serious problem.
Someone mentioned a "sticky". I have had advice from MB Doc, Steve Brotherton and the Renntech guy. All agree it is an electrical problem, but where?

Anziani

common cause is fault code N4/1 no canbus communication, so far no one in the whole world has ever come up with an exact science on how to resolve the issue, all guesses (better than nothing i should say) but so far no one has ever sincerely reported their problem to be resolved, if you must consider changing everything then that is not resolving the issue prudently. the usual culprit which sets off this ASR issue are the bad wiring harness on the ETA and the engine harness, it somehow destroys the ASR Control Module (located inside your black box).

Still hoping someone may enlighten us victims of ASR nightmare with a true blue resolution and finally putting to rest this 15 year old problem.

The "canbus" . . . actually it's CAN bus . . . error code is just a symptom of failing w/h or a going-bad ETA or failing brake switch or NSS. Those are the main culprits. The CAN itself does not fail just the inability of the ECUs on the bus to communicate.

I've personally NEVER seen a bad ASR module as a result of a going-bad ETA, w/h or anything else and I've seen a lot of them.

My ETA writeup is the BEST overall treatise on the problem b/c it shows initial symptoms plus DTCs, then, as it progresses, variations on these symptoms and codes, then finally what happens when the ETA dies.

Also later in the writeup (about 2yrs down the road) the DTCs and LH problems return but now, it's another module, the NSS.

The reason that "no one has come up with an exact science . . . " is simply that there isn't any method including MB's Star system that can diagnose which part in the chain is bad.

This is a common problem in ALL electronic system where there are electronic elements (ECUs) in series. Any one of them can cause a problem and it's impossible to diagnose if there are no intermediate TEST-POINTS. That's the main problem with Mercedes' fly-by-wire system.

When Mercedes built these cars, the concept of adding TPs was in it's infancy. Nobody thought about adding this important feature. Now it's the norm. Had some TPs been used and brought to a test connector, the problem would have become trivial.

But however trivial it might have become, the "FIX" would still be expensive!! :mad:

As I mentioned this is an intermittend problem, and when i took the car to have the codes scanned, the asr light was off. I tought there would be stored codes from previous times when the light came on

When I collected the car from the dealer yesterday, I spoke to the foreman that was working on my car. Obviously he found no error codes. He told me that he open and dried most of the electrical connectors that pertains to the asr, and made sure all contacts are in good order.

I drove another 500miles and no asr warning yet. Started up this morning and drove 70 miles no asr warning yet:)

we will see what develops over the next few days!

I am of the opinion that miosture or a bad connection was to blame, anyways I appreciate all the help and advice I recieved here. I will post a follow up.

For now I am going fishing!!

There would have been.

Peet,
I hope that your problem is solved. I live in the desert and I don't remember the last time the car got wet and since it is a '93 300CE the error codes are a lot simpler. Yes, the wiring harness is good. The ETA and harness are new, and yes, I may never find out what is causing this once a day occurrence. :(
Anziani

Update
 

Drove the car again today, still no asr light:):) Perhaps I am one of the lucky few that just had a bad connection somewhere or some moisture that dried out.

One thing is for certain, I will not ever presure wash the engine and chassis again!!

Newer than mine ...
 

Yours is a later car so what I'm going to say is probably even more relevant.

Whenever you see an electrical connector, clean it. Use a good quality contact cleaner (not WD40, in my opinion) and disconnect/reconnect several times to clean the contacts. Do this every time you find a plug/socket you've never seen before.

Cost - almost zero.

Time - very little.

Risk - low.

Benefits - potentially great and more so with more modern vehicles.

Just don't break anything and if you do, repair it properly.

RayH

Desperation
 

Ok so after the car came back from the dealer, I drove it for about 4 days without any incident. Then the intermittend asr light came back, would cancel and reset after switching the ignition off and re starting would stay of between 3-5 days then without warning I would get a asr warning light.

On saterday while taking a drive to the drugstore asr turn on, but after the restart turned on again, did this 5-6 times, so no it seemed that simply restarting would not cancel the asr fault.

so when i got home I decided to trace the ETA wires, wires sare in good condition, did notice that the manuffacture date on the VDO ETA was 2002 stamped in blue on the ETA casing(car is a 96) thus the ETA must have been replaced by PO right?

Then i removed the plug from ETA to wiring harness and cleaned this connection with electrical contact cleaner.

I then removed the ASR module from the bin and cleaned both rows of contactors with the cleaner inspected the wiring at the bottom where the module plugs in, perfect.

then removed base module cleaned contacts checked fuses on base module by removing and replacing them.

Then cleaned the connectors on the wheel speed sensors.

started the car up asr was off then proceeded to drive about 100m in pouring rain, and yesterday about 120m in hot conditions, drove it into work this morning and asr lighjt never came on.

I am holding thumbs that I had a bad connection somewhere.

just as an after thought I know that on USA models and probably on euro models you can jump pin 1 and 6 to put the asr in diagnostics mode which will eliminate limp home mode but will not turn off the asr lamp, BUT on my model South African version Pin 6 in the 38 pin socket is a dummy??

is there a jump that would put our Southj African models in diagnostics mode??

ASR on again
 

Well today after 4 days of trouble free driving ASR came on again out of the blue. Switch of restart ASR light went off and stayed off.

I will no be replaceing in the following order, Brake light switch, then if no Nuetral safety switch, and lastly I must look at the ETA(that was replaced some time ago)

Is there any other components I might have overlooked?

peet230,
I feel your pain. There are 4 wheel speed sensors in the circuit. I pulled each and cleaned them. No improvement. If you send me your email address i will send you my 2 year history of what I have done. :(
My address is <anziani14@dc.rr.com>
Anziani

Have you cleaned your ETA? Here's a good throttle cleaning kit from Amazon.

3M 08963 Fuel System Tune-Up Kit

If that does not fix it replace your ETA. That's the fix for ASR problems most of the time.

Olmechtec,
The Throttle actuator has little exposure to the fuel stream. Imagine looking into a throat of a carburetor with only the butterfly valve and no fuel jets. A fuel cleaner would have little if any effect on this unit. The ETA is mostly sealed consisting of switches, pots and a drive motor.
Anziani

The 3M cleaner has three cleaners. Two for the throttle body, and one for the fuel system. You can check out the video below:

Amazon.com: 3M 08963 Fuel System Tune-Up Kit: Automotive

This worked wonders solving bad idle issues on my 300E, and improving gas mileage. I'm only out $39 after doing this.

If cleaning it does not work, I would try swaping in a used ETA to see if that solves problem. Almost all the "Solved" ASR issues I've seen were caused by ETA idle issues.

You know what PT Barnum once said . . . . :(

If you feel that you MUST do this, get a can of "carb" cleaner and Lucas "Seafoam" and save yourself $40 dollars or more.

Point taken.

Clean first, then replace if necessary. Maybey you get lucky.