W201 test drive (and fun and games trying to buy a car)
 

G'day Folks,


I went and saw a clapped out W201 today. It was a bargain basement car – just looking at the advert it seem to be priced about 200 euros more than its market value in my opinion but with its 1100 euro asking price it is hardly worth bickering over the little difference in cash so long as the majority of the vehicle was OK so I went to see it.


It was a sunny day I was ready to get on with it and buy!


I'm always hopeful that people will describe the car faithfully in the advert – unfortunately that wasn't the case today. I have found that asking the bloke on the phone if it was all good makes little difference these days you just have to take the plunge and go and see it. I guess I should have known better 'cos it was fitted with gay boy go faster alloys which isn't usually the best sign...


...the car had obviously been ragged in its most recent life. The biggest problem was that the windscreen that had a hideous crack arching from a quarter of the way in from the lower corners. It was only about 5 cm from the bottom of the screen at its highest point. It looked like a stress crack – perhaps some rot under the seal? Not necessarily an easy fix. Seller felt I should get an all risk insurance policy and then claim for a new windscreen. I'm not doing fraudulent stuff like that. (Strike one!)


However the rest of the car was OK. Good panel fit although there was evidence of a dented passenger door – door card hanging off inside and loose trim outside. Random surface rust spots on stone chips and the edges of doors where they'd been knocked against other cars / walls etc. Not so bad – what do you expect for that asking price?


Inside the car - interior good but had been owned by a smoker. Didn't stink too bad – I don't like it though. Carpets were damp. I traced that to blocked drains in the bonnet / hood spring area – awash with water. Not good – made me more worried about weird windscreen crack. (Strike 1.75!)


Driving the car – it shifts – well I guess this one was used to it! Only a four speed manual gearbox. Massive amount of drive line shunt – probably was play in the gear box – but it kind of went into gear quite well considering Mercedes gearboxes are known for their notchiness. Probably been trained to do so by miss whiplash – it didn't dare not go into gear anymore...


...Wandered all over the road – about 20 degrees play in steering box – it would keep you awake; no need for computer controlled sleeping driver sensors on this car! But then front wheels showed signs of kerbing so tracking was probably out a bit.


On a cold engine a little bit of blow-by was evident – on a warm engine removing the oil filler coated the outer wing in engine oil! Crap! There I was in the middle of a nature reserve car park hastily wiping down the side of the car with snot rags! I reckoned on a clogged crank case breather valve somewhere but it could have been more terminal. A gamble – probably worth it – replacement head would probably fix it in a worst case scenario – fingers crossed for the lower parts of the engine. (Strike 2.86?)


Brake judder – new discs needed I guess – car had been sitting for too long and gay boy alloys allow too much rain access to the discs...


...all in all the car probably needs about 500 euros in parts spent on it. Exhaust leak at the manifold - flex discs - new discs pads etc.


Still I thought for the sake of just getting on with it – give them the asking price so long as the windscreen gets fixed.


Went back to do the deal. This is when it got weird. I offered to pay a deposit that would cover the material costs of the windscreen. And then said I'll come back and get the car when done and pay for the rest then. Seller then produced this purchase contract – wanted me to sign in triplicate and probably provide a sperm sample in his left eye... Considering he had written no guarantee, no come back, no hope, no money back all over the contract I couldn't see any benefit for myself. So I said I wouldn't sign anything. He got pedantic – so did I – and that was that! I went home. Bizarre. (Strike 3!)



Still all in all I'm quite impressed with petrol engined W201s – I'll consider looking for another one. To be continued...

Here's the link to the advert

Marktplaats.nl - Mercedes-Benz 190-serie 1.8 E Basic - Mercedes-Benz

For when it dies - it was a 190E 1992 W201 with 216,000 km (allegedly) 4 speed manual gear box no sun roof no extras (just how I like bangers - less to go wrong is a good thing!)

How about a nice little Civic or Corolla? Taking my Corolla to bits is fun, too :).

Clearly not worth it, and the seller doesn't deserve the time of day. Probably needs anew steering box as well. If you want a project 201, look for a Cosworth. If you just want a beater, there should be dozens of good deals in Germany.

I used to have a Honda Civic - in some ways a fantastic car. On the whole it was really good but I really don't want to risk the safety of the children in a roller skate with a roof. To be honest the W201 is a bit small for my safety conscious liking.

The eye opener for today was that despite the poor condition of the car it had held up quite well to some serious abuse. I was surprised how nice it felt - I didn't expect to have that familiar comfortable Mercedes feel in a W201. But it is there.

I really just want something that will work as a car for a while. I don't mind doing small jobs like rebuilding the steering box or rebuilding the suspension but I'm not up for another full on project at the moment. I haven't finished the last one yet!

As for deals in Germany - yeah in principle I might be able to save a couple of hundred euros on the purchase price; may be even a grand if I am really lucky but after time and travel and getting it transferred to Dutch papers it isn't really worth it for my cheap and cheerful budget.

Gets stranger
 

Dealer now wants me to go ahead with the deal I offered earlier - strange eh?

I can't be arsed - I'm probably off to see another one tomorrow. Maroon <= YUK! => with an effing great big star on the front to make me look like I sell flying carpets out the back...

...and those bloody dreadful BBS woven basket style wheels on it...

Well, if you can drum up some guilders, you can have Olli Kahn's old car: Mercedes-Benz 190 E 2.5-16 als Limousine in Karlsruhe

Yeah well for that kind of money I think I'd just go for a W140 and pay the 1500 euros a year in road tax...

i dont get the whole taxation per kilo thing, but i believe a w124 with a 3.2L m104 should weigh somewhere around 1500kg's, so that should cost around 800 euros (like the w210) in roadtaxes.

you mentioned that the w201 with 1.8L was fun to drive. if i were you, i would definitely be on the look out for a 3.2 M104 attached to a 5 speed manual, i bet that that would be real fun to drive.

good luck

I don't understand any of the Dutch tax system - I don't think many people here do actually!

For Dutch road tax (petrol engine only) - the W201 comes in at about 400 euros a year - like you say I guess a W124 will be about the same as the W210 but they are more expensive and sought after than the W210s (you don't get that good deal feel!) - this size will cost about 800 euros a year and the car I want a W140 will be about 1200 to 1500 depending on chassis length and engine.

I thought I'd get the daft idea of buying a W201 out of my head and go and see what one was like. Surprisingly I was quite impressed with the 1.8 litre engine even after a hard life - it felt like a nice safe solid car; albeit a modern car (compared with a W123).

If this W201 shopping spree comes good - well for the little amount that I'm trying to get away with I reckon I might have enough left over for a lathe or perhaps some gas bottles (for welding) - lure of new tools is greater than the lure of a W140 I'm sorry to say...

Update - car #2 - second time unlucky
 

OK I went to see my second W201 today.

It was better described by the seller - that was a plus.

There was a bit of discussion about the photographs - how old were they - how come your address is in the middle of town but the pictures show a nice place in the country (that probably isn't yours) - no direct answer...

...bloke turned up at the railway station at the time he said he would - good!

Got out of his car - a 50+ year old chap with terminator sun glasses on that never came off - me thinks => difficult to tell if he is telling truth.

Full of stories about how well the car has been looked after - no rust - everything is perfect and what a bargain - blah blah blah - electric this electric that - look how smooth it is and what it cost when it was new! Just look at the receipts...

...turns out he hadn't put any money into the car - that was someone else. He'd had the car for about 7 months. He had put it through a safety inspection.

Only had one key for the car.

The body work was in really good nick - and the inside had been cleaned - no noticeable problems - a lot better than yesterday's car if it wasn't for


Two 'ucking great big holes in the floor pan just next to the rear sub frame mounts.

I didn't bother driving it. This car had more holes in it than my W123 - I thought that that was bad...

...what a shame. It had obviously been looked after by someone (up to a point) who liked to drive in a clean car but the bonnet spring pockets were full of crud again and there had obviously been a leak somewhere to get two dinner plate holes in the floor pan.

The road noise must be pretty bad - I didn't bother driving it.

I pointed out the rust to him - and said bye bye.

I don't think that he had a valid test certificate - well it was half valid - just pushed through via a mate or even his own company. Answer to "are you a dealer then?" {pointing to key in ignition with no fob or other key attached} - "no not me mate" - hmmmmm...

Plan of attack + buyer's guide
 

I've found a good buyer's guide for the W201 here =>

Mercedes-benz W201 Buyers Guide

However for my purposes I've decided that all you need to do is

1) Lift bonnet / hood and look along the spring pocket areas to see if they are dirty / full of crud etc... check for rust even though most of the area is plastic lined

2) Look directly below these spring pocket areas on the inside and the outside of the car for evidence of rust or water ingress.

3) Look along the bottom of the car from the back of the front wheel to the front of the back wheel for rust. Any squashy crumbly feeling under the undercoating means rust.

4) Check the area in front of the rear wheel again - look all the way around the front sub frame mounts and into the wheel arch area. Rust in this area is difficult (= expensive) to fix.

So I'm now refining the process of buying a W201

Me: "Nice day to buy a car"

Seller: "Blah blah fantastic blah blah owned by a nun blah blah only used on Sundays to go to church blah blah"

Me: "Oh great just what I'm looking for can see under the bonnet / hood?"

Seller: " Er OK"

Follow process written above ^^^^^


I expect to have a few more of these responses =>

Me: "Thank you for your time good luck with the sale of your car!"

Rather than a =>

Me: "So you say it was owned by a nun then?"

Sorry, had to pass this one on too. Low km, looks pristine and has a 12-mo guarantee. It may even include the shepherd dog ;)

Gebrauchtwagen: Mercedes-Benz, 190, E 1.8 - 2. Besitz - nur orginal 88.400 Km, Benzin,

Nice and where I live it is only a 10 minute walk to a direct train to Berlin...

Update
 

Well folks you can all take a deep breath of relief it looks like I've found a rust free enough Mercedes!

I found a dealer who had several options - he said 0,0% rust on all of his cars so I had a choice of a W124 and two W201s. I've gone for a 1992 black W201 with a 1.8 litre engine and a four speed manual gear box. I did find rust but it seems treatable - the dealer beat himself down to a reasonable price (although I know he's made a fair amount of money on the vehicle as it is an import from Germany). Still I don't have the time or the energy to go car shopping in Germany and it most certainly didn't break the bank. I think I'm going to be happy. He's repairing the driver's seat that wears on the outer edge and getting me a new safety certificate (APK / MOT) for a year. I should be able to pick the car up sometime next week.

Thank %$^%%& for that! Car shopping should now be over and done with! I hate buying cars!

Now I'm off shopping for a 5 speed gearbox and a black leather interior!!!!

You certainly are staying true to your signature line!:D

I realize things W201 are very different there, but couldn't you have held out for a funfganger?

Yes well ermmm I'm also investigating just how close the M102 is related to the cossie engine too!

Wot's that?

5 speed (I thought...if not...serves me right for trying to be cute in a languge I don't speak)

Doh! now I get it - sorry I don't actually speak the language either. When I read the German FSM it seems almost familiar most of the time but that's only because Dutch is a weird combination of German English and French as well as some sort of regional messed up dialect language between the two countries...

...and what do you mean wait for a 5 speed? It took long enough finding any Mercedes without too much rust! I'm counting my blessings. I've seen several 717.412s for sale at about one hundred and fifty notes - seems like a reasonable start and an excuse for a how to rebuild a manual gearbox DIY!!!

I share your frustration
 

Glad to hear you've finally found a food one. After some incredible experiences I am of the same opinion as you. The ad, the pictures and the conversation with the seller mean nothing. Only an inspection in person means anything and then expect the worst.

I've seen some incredible things recently. A 300sd 116 that looked good in the pics and was advertised as a runner. When I went to see it it was hooked up to a battery charger but we were never able to get it to start. There was no air left in the front tires at all. The entire exhaust system was lying on the ground under the car in pieces and it looked as if a family of gerbils had inhabited the interior for a few years and tossed a couple of hand grenades into the cabin when they left.

Then there was the 123 300d that I went to see which seemed a lot better. The guy was using it as his daily driver and I arranged to meet him when he got back from work with it. So I figured this looked promising. But no. Looked like the car had been sprayed down with acid and the interior wasn't much better. It shook so badly I doubt there was anything left of any of the mountings on the car at all. But the best part was the oil pressure gauge didn't move at all. Remember he had just returned from work so it should have been fine. So when I looked at the dip stick it was bone dry. Not a hint of oil in the engine. Idiot feigned amazement but curiously just happened to have a a lot of bottles of oil on hand and we managed to get the gauge to register after putting several in.

Then there was the 240d looking great in the pics but stated as having a slight parking lot ding on the right side. Well apart from being quite incredibly badly trashed it looked as if someone had dropped cannon balls on the roof. I mean there were three dents about the size of cricket balls in the roof above the doors and the entire right side had been smashed in along the whole length of the car.

So I no longer have any expectation of honesty or frankly even common goddamm sense from these idiots when I go to look at a car and I try not to to have any hopeful expectations about it.

- Peter.

Well, I settled on a "5-speed with black leather interior" too.......an '06 CDI.

Never thought I'd buy a black interior car, but I love it. It's the black exteriors I will not tolerate.;)

What's up with black paint then?

I've been told it is a bugger to keep clean and looking good...

...is it a Texas gets too hot in the sun thing for you?

Thanks Peter,

I've put down a deposit - I hope the deal goes through with out any unforeseen BS - it's not over till the fat lady sings...

...as for looking for a car I found it didn't really matter how much money you want to spend. I was considering vehicles between 1000 euros and 12000 euros. All of them - with the exception of one - were over priced for what they were; all of them have problems. Even the car I've agreed to buy needs a driver's door lock fix and some treatment of rust spots - that's what I know about. However, I've been looking at the cost of W201 spare parts and so far I must say I'm surprised at how cheap they are. I found such a good deal on new disc brakes and pads I nearly bought them before actually getting the car and checking to see if they are needed!

That, dust, too hot because of the dark color, too flashy.......the list is looong. Not in my preference or personal style, that's all....... I think it's (black ext.) great for others though!

Choices. With a range of $$$ that w i d e, you've got a lot of latitude. That's where ya wanna be when shopping for used cars, IMO.

Well that's what I was thinking. But it still turned out to be pretty frustrating.

I was mainly looking for a second hand Mercedes but I did get involved with other loose females! Most people seemed to be asking way more than the value of the vehicle - some people wanted two or three times as much. I expect every seller to add on a bit of wiggle space on the asking price but not to double or tripple the value of the vehicle. May be I got unlucky but all of the vehicles I went to see in the last three months are still for sale (except for one).

As long as you're enjoying your new life, that's what is important. Another fellow here thought that many sellers not budging on price, will still be owning their cars for a loong time. I agree with him.

Fortunately, I found a dealer that wanted to deal. I told the sales rep. that I really didn't want the car, because of it's age and miles, however, based on it's condition, how it drove, and it's iron-clad history/records, I would be forced to buy it if I could get it cheap enough. He asked me what I was thinking in terms of dollars, and here's what happened:
I spent 60% or so of the maximum I allotted for spending on a used car, so, I came away with more than I thought I would in both the used car, and $ to spare. I was not planning on spending that little, it just worked out that way. I offered 21.4% less than asking, and they countered with 19.2% less than asking. We had a deal. It's all good. I hope you're pleased with your new purchase!

Your not far off, in gernan it is "Fünf gang" in dutch "vijf versnellingen"

Rob

Update (again)
 

This thread should be dead soon. The fat lady isn't singing yet but she's clearing her throat. I can pick the car up tomorrow evening...

What's the hurry......since you're going to need to post pics of your new acquisition. ;)

He's gotta get started on his, "172 things I'm doing to my car which didn't really need them but I thought, what the heck" thread!:D

Good title - but I was going to start of with a long time lurker first time poster thread and then build up to a will these wheels fit on my car thread...

...and then perhaps a f***ing previous owner bastard git thread!