W124/190E Cold Start Issue. - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Everybodyghost · #1 04-28-2013, 06:04 PM

My girlfriend is looking at buying a 190E, 2.3 SOHC. It's got this cold start issue. First start of the day, you have to crank the car 2 or 3 times to get it to start. After that, it's fine. I have some experience with K-jet (Volvos), but have never had to solve a cold start issue.

Is this very common? Is there an easy test for the cold start injector? Is this a possible indicator of bigger problems in the fuel system?

I was thinking it could be the fuel pump relay as well, but don't see them on ********.

Any advice is appreciated.

TheDon · #2 04-28-2013, 06:25 PM

On the Volvo engines I know with K-Jet, the wonderful PRV engine, there can be a multitude of issues if it has not been taken care of. If you can put a jumper in for the fuel pump relay that would tell you if the pump is working or not. When starting from cold have someone listen for the pumps.

I would source a good used cold start valve and swap them out and see if there is a change.

btw, the 190E is the W201 chassis.

lorainfurniture · #3 04-28-2013, 06:49 PM

Difficult cold start is usually tune up (or lack thereof). I would start with a bottle of redline, and then go from there. I dealt with the same issue for years with my m103 engine ( yours is m102 I believe) and ultimately it was solved with plugs, wires, cap rotor filters and most important new injectors.

It's an expensive nuisance to remedy. Good luck

Everybodyghost · #4 04-28-2013, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDon

On the Volvo engines I know with K-Jet, the wonderful PRV engine, there can be a multitude of issues if it has not been taken care of. If you can put a jumper in for the fuel pump relay that would tell you if the pump is working or not. When starting from cold have someone listen for the pumps.

I would source a good used cold start valve and swap them out and see if there is a change.

btw, the 190E is the W201 chassis.

All the old Volvos had K-jet back in the early 80s. I've had quite a few (about ten). I don't think I've ever had an old Volvo that the fuel pump didn't go out on. Didn't know if that's a k-jet problem, or just a Volvo problem.

Oh I guess it is a W201. They all look the same. haha.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorainfurniture

Difficult cold start is usually tune up (or lack thereof). I would start with a bottle of redline, and then go from there. I dealt with the same issue for years with my m103 engine ( yours is m102 I believe) and ultimately it was solved with plugs, wires, cap rotor filters and most important new injectors.

It's an expensive nuisance to remedy. Good luck

Thanks for the advice. I was planning on doing a general tune up anyway, so maybe that'll take care of it. I've never heard of redline.

lorainfurniture · #5 04-28-2013, 07:54 PM

Look it up on Amazon. It's a fuel additive. I've tried dozens and this stuff works. Nothing else will even come close. It could solve your problem outright.

TheDon · #6 04-28-2013, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everybodyghost

All the old Volvos had K-jet back in the early 80s. I've had quite a few (about ten). I don't think I've ever had an old Volvo that the fuel pump didn't go out on. Didn't know if that's a k-jet problem, or just a Volvo problem.

Oh I guess it is a W201. They all look the same. haha.

my only experience with K Jet is on the Delorean and boy do I dislike K Jet

Frank Reiner · #7 04-29-2013, 10:46 AM

Let us know the model year; there were two versions of K-jet used over the span of production of the 190E.

Everybodyghost · #8 04-29-2013, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Reiner

Let us know the model year; there were two versions of K-jet used over the span of production of the 190E.

1984.

Frank Reiner · #9 04-29-2013, 08:25 PM

For the most part, the techniques that you are familiar with from your Volvo experience apply to the MB K-jet you are dealing with. It was not until '87(?) that the 2.3 was equipped with KE.

neanderthal · #10 04-29-2013, 11:36 PM

Could be the fuel pressure regulator.

Try holding the key in the "ON" position for a few seconds before actually starting the car.

Everybodyghost · #11 05-02-2013, 02:27 PM

Priming the fuel pump doesn't help any. I believe I have found at least a partial cause of my cold start woes. The (vacuum?) line that runs from the FPR to the valve cover vent to what looks like a air idle valve to the air cleaner was oil soaked, cracked and leaking all over the place. It wasn't even connected to the air cleaner, and it looks like it's been pissing oil all over the place for a while. I've electrical taped all the cracks and seams and it appears to be air tight for now. I doubt that fix will last very long, so if anyone has another of one of these hoses, I'd be glad to take it off your hands.

I also replaced the plugs today. The tips of the old plugs were orange, something I've never encountered before and know nothing of what that might point to. Maybe someone was running a fuel additive of some kind. Plug wires are pretty damn old and nasty and kind of rusty. I would take a good used set from anyone off the board, if possible. They're damn expensive plug wires. Still need to order a cap and rotor, and see if that make a difference. I'm going to be doing the injector seals and fuel filter tomorrow. PO said he'd run out of gas in the car a few times recently.

Really, looking at the car, nothing seems to be terribly wrong with it. It's just been neglected for a good long time. I'd like to dissemble the intake side, clean everything and replace a few things, but I don't think I'm going to be able to do that right away.

One thing the seller did not disclose was the fact that the car seems to have been sitting for a while. I found a mouse nest in between the intake manifold and the starter. I've yet to see any signs of chewing, but I really hope that there isn't anything chewed up under this intake.

Frank Reiner · #12 05-02-2013, 03:50 PM

I must correct myself; the 190/2.3 did use KE-Jetronic from '84 on.

It contains a feature that the OP may not have encountered in his Volvo experience; the electrohydraulic actuator (EHA). The EHA is a mixture controller in the fuel distributor (FD) that responds to feedback from the O2 sensor. In addition to responding to exhaust oxygen, it also delivers an enriched mixture during start and warmup. Along with the possibility of a leaking accumulator, a defective EHA, or the lack of a signal to the EHA, can also cause difficult starting. If the accumulator is just starting to leak, the exercise of "whirring" the fuel pump 4 or 5 times to build fuel pressure before cranking the engine, will often identify the accumulator as the culprit.

The EHA is located on the side of the FD, and has an electrical plug attached. Unplugging the EHA connector MAY give some indication of the source of the problem. MAY, because the lack of a signal and an unplugged connector will have the same effect. With the engine warmed to normal operating temperature, unplugging the EHA while running should produce a change in idle if the EHA and the signal are good.

Everybodyghost · #13 05-02-2013, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Reiner

I must correct myself; the 190/2.3 did use KE-Jetronic from '84 on.

It contains a feature that the OP may not have encountered in his Volvo experience; the electrohydraulic actuator (EHA). The EHA is a mixture controller in the fuel distributor (FD) that responds to feedback from the O2 sensor. In addition to responding to exhaust oxygen, it also delivers an enriched mixture during start and warmup. Along with the possibility of a leaking accumulator, a defective EHA, or the lack of a signal to the EHA, can also cause difficult starting. If the accumulator is just starting to leak, the exercise of "whirring" the fuel pump 4 or 5 times to build fuel pressure before cranking the engine, will often identify the accumulator as the culprit.

The EHA is located on the side of the FD, and has an electrical plug attached. Unplugging the EHA connector MAY give some indication of the source of the problem. MAY, because the lack of a signal and an unplugged connector will have the same effect. With the engine warmed to normal operating temperature, unplugging the EHA while running should produce a change in idle if the EHA and the signal are good.

If this were at fault, would the car have trouble starting every start, or only the first start of the day? I was starting to suspect that this was KE-Jet when I saw the computer in the engine bay. haha. Am I right in assuming that this is the 3 prong connector on the front (standing in front of the car) of the FD?

Frank Reiner · #14 05-02-2013, 08:17 PM

The extra enrichment supplied by the EHA is effective primarily on cold starts. Once sufficient water temp is sensed, i.e., hot starts, the enrichment is cancelled.

The EHA, and plug, are to the rear of the FD.

Everybodyghost · #15 05-03-2013, 09:23 AM

I really hate when this happens. I found two wires near the battery that look like they should run to one of the battery terminals (judging by the connectors). They're not connected to anything at the moment and they look like they run back into the passenger compartment, so I don't know where they go. One has a blade fuse like half way down the wire. Where do I start in figuring out what these are and if they're important?