5 spd hanging up - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

chasinthesun · #1 06-22-2014, 11:17 AM

Not a shifter issue ,went thru the shifter ,I have the rods off the shifter ,the driveshaft off the yolk ,Ill row the shifter rods back and forward ,when I move to the next rod it will hang up abit and as it clears up I can see the yolk moving during this time.I then move to the next rod and row it with the same result ,is their a misalignment here.85 190e 2.3 16 5spd

Stretch · #2 06-22-2014, 11:44 AM

I would guess a clutch issue - as far as I know there isn't any adjustment within the gearbox for the shifter linkages.

You could however have synchromesh issues - what oil do you have in the gearbox?

chasinthesun · #3 06-22-2014, 01:01 PM

Stretch ,thank you for chiming in ,Ive read your great right up on the MB 190E 5SPD you serviced ,in my case Ive changed the fluid with the recommended MB trans fluid as my 1st service go thru on the car .It was neglected for sometime with remnants of fine metal on the magnitzed drain plug .The unbolting of the driveshaft as I dug into the current issue was unsettling ,someone had serviced the frt flex disc but did not torq down the driveshaft bolts thoroughly ,1 bolt was missing ,1 was loose ,only 1 was holding things in place ,could this have contributed to a bearing going bad on the rear of the 5spds shaft in some way? Could this uneven force on the back of the 5spd cause a lossening of the pinion nut ,a simple replacement nut with retightening a new bolt be a possible fix ? A followup question on the nut ,do you torq it down any specific force?I have purchased a deep 30mm 12point socket and the nut but I now believe it might be the wrong nut ,just cant see how to put a punch to THE NUT to pin it in place.The yolk has someplay ,gear lash ,but seems unsmooth ,their is no loosens as you hold the yolk and try to move it with force ,outward or up and down ,the play is rotational ,3secs on a clock would be the best way to describe it. Should I not mess with the nut and just replace the fluid once more ,see if it clears up?

Stretch · #4 06-22-2014, 02:26 PM

Don't get too too worried about metal parts in the oil in a manual gearbox - even in a differential where there is no changing of gears you'll get metal fragments in the oil. Just clean them off the magnetic plug before refitting...

...a loose flex disc could cause a lot of trouble but the only way to check is to remove the gearbox from the car and measure the shaft end play. This is hard to do 'cos there's a spring and shims in the middle of the the output shaft that kind of floats up against the input shaft. If the output shaft (with the yoke fitted) has any obvious play in it then I'd be tempted not to risk it but remove and check.

The torque for the output shaft nut is 160Nm == 118 ft lbs

You could try ATF as an alternative for the gearbox oil. Dexron II if you can find it where you live. These gearboxes are pretty fussy. That is the cheapest thing to do other than doing nothing (which might end up being more expensive if you see what I mean).

chasinthesun · #5 06-22-2014, 03:30 PM

Is it possible to be an obstruction between the pressure plate fingers and the throw out bearing ,something that is always giving contact play with the movement of the actions of the 5spd gears.If I rotate the yolk with my hand is the shaft thru the whole 5spd moving on the clutch side also Stretch?

Stretch · #6 06-22-2014, 03:47 PM

If the clutch hydraulic system needs bleeding you can get trouble with the shifting - that's why I mentioned clutch in my first response. Sorry I should have made that clearer.

Frank Reiner · #7 06-22-2014, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chasinthesun

Stretch ,thank you for chiming in ,Ive read your great right up on the MB 190E 5SPD you serviced ,in my case Ive changed the fluid with the recommended MB trans fluid as my 1st service go thru on the car .It was neglected for sometime with remnants of fine metal on the magnitzed drain plug .The unbolting of the driveshaft as I dug into the current issue was unsettling ,someone had serviced the frt flex disc but did not torq down the driveshaft bolts thoroughly ,1 bolt was missing ,1 was loose ,only 1 was holding things in place ,could this have contributed to a bearing going bad on the rear of the 5spds shaft in some way? Could this uneven force on the back of the 5spd cause a lossening of the pinion nut ,a simple replacement nut with retightening a new bolt be a possible fix ? A followup question on the nut ,do you torq it down any specific force?I have purchased a deep 30mm 12point socket and the nut but I now believe it might be the wrong nut ,just cant see how to put a punch to THE NUT to pin it in place.The yolk has someplay ,gear lash ,but seems unsmooth ,their is no loosens as you hold the yolk and try to move it with force ,outward or up and down ,the play is rotational ,3secs on a clock would be the best way to describe it. Should I not mess with the nut and just replace the fluid once more ,see if it clears up?

chas:

Have you repaired the flex disc and bolts? Have you driven the car after repairing the flex disc? What are the specific symptoms you perceive? Can you expand a bit on the term "hanging up"?

chasinthesun · #8 06-22-2014, 04:23 PM

I replaced the slave cylinder along with a rebuilt shifter mechanism during this pursuit of shifting quality , I used a forced bleed method which I believe Ive done right ,the clutch pedal seems firm.Ok ,if this is all it is then a Im on the home STRETCH ,whats your method in a good bleed system? I cant thank you enough .
An intersting find for sure ,the car wasnt driven after the flex disc were rebolted ,that I hope to do very soon.

Stretch · #9 06-23-2014, 03:54 AM

Access is really tight on a W201 (as I'm sure you know) that's been the biggest problem for me. So far the best method I have used (as advertised quite extensively here and on BW) is to push fluid from the bottom of the system into the reservoir. I've used a wide diameter syringe and a bit of clear plastic tubing to connected to the bleed nipple. You need to make sure that the clutch pedal is up before you start this!

chasinthesun · #10 06-23-2014, 02:02 PM

Ive located most of the hang up Stretch ,it was the pinion bolt after all , tightening the bolt just a hair took out the slack in the yolk I was noticing ,shifting improved 70% ,I then hammered a punch on the pinning hoping that it will hold ,I then bolted everything back together.The clutch pedal does feel right ,Ive decided to replace the master even though its not leaking ,should be in tomorrow ,then take it to someone to bleed the clutch . A finger hold on a slave cylinder bleeder screw then a 7mm long wrench wiggle here wiggle their ,you do know these cars Stretch.My only hold up is that I get quoted 1 hr from a shop and then get charge 3 for bleeding a clutch.

Stretch · #11 06-23-2014, 03:50 PM

If the slave cylinder is working and you're happy enough with it I'd leave well alone.