want to buy W124 400e, how good is this car?
 

I am about to buy a 400e

What are your experiences with this car? drivability, maintenance?
Any pitfalls?

Martin

Well you don't tell us what year it is but we had a '95 E420 that was faultless. I've had 5 Benzes and it and my CL600 were at the top of the stack. A fellow forum member grabbed it when I sold it. It had 150K with a minimum of troubles.
Anziani
'97 CL600 53K

How many miles? Ownership history? Repair history? As can see from my sig, I like these cars and actually have a couple more not listed. I would argue, like any other 24 year old MB, your experiences, positive or negative, will only as good as your answers to the 3 questions I just posed. Others would argue an MB V8 can be a pita, and they can, but get out on the highway with one and all those arguments are forgotten. So are you looking at a beater or garage queen?

I had a 93 400E for about a year and kinda regret selling it. The driving experience is totally different than the inline sixes and the fuel mileage is better too. I would get around 20MPG no matter how I drove it. These cars are all plagued by the ecojunk wiring harness that MB used at the time so that is something that will need to be replaced if it hasn't already. The transmissions on the V8 cars seem to be more robust than the sixes and last longer between rebuilds. Maintenance is more expensive on the M119. You have two distributors to deal with and these cars have a very sensitive ignition system. I would buy another if one came along for the right price and in the right condition before I would ever think about another 6 cylinder W124 sedan.

car: 1992: 160K miles. Not a good record of ownership, CA car- no rust, nice interiors (as far as I saw while test driving) paint suffered from CA sun (clear coat cracked on micro scale). No good repair history but all seems to be stock.

Engine is quick, although I had to step on the pedal quite a bit until it went. Shift points are low (not like the 500e).

I am looking for a daily driver to keep over many, many years.

what about climate control? pita like the W126

Is the car in quality compared to the W126?

Martin

Thanks gator,
20MPG that is not so bad!

I think the seller exchanged the wire harness (I don't know what ecojunk harness is). I am not afraid of maintenance if it can be done in my garage.
Maintenance: more expensive... can you tell?
You mentioned 2 distributors and sensitive ignition system. Is it just keeping the points and distributor in good shape ...or more?

trans: I felt that the transmission didn't want to shift quickly...bad response (kind of a lack until it shifted) if you hit the pedal. Is that something that can be adjusted?

is the HVAC a pita on these car (I remember when I had to change the climate brain and the vacuum pots on my 126).

The car I am looking at is definitely not a garage queen in future. It needs to be a daily work hose and I am tending to stick to cars for a long time -10 years is not unusual.

I am buying this car today for 3K.

here are pics
https://picasaweb.google.com/100856643715963853976/400e?feat=directlink

Martin

The '93 124 build quality and robustness of design is the same as the 126. The chassis is much stiffer on the 124, and you have a less expensive front suspension rebuild, otherwise most of the 126 stuff applies: bushings and the like.

The vacuum pods under the dash are similar, some will fail sooner than others, depends on the climate I suppose, ... eventually all rubber fails.

W124 400Es have 2.24 rear gears, which is why they don't scream away from a standing start. However notice on the speedo the 3-4 shift point is at like 130mph. They have incredibly long legs on the highway and just pull and pull and pull.

My dad has a 1994 E420 with a document wiring harness, ETA, cam oilers, and a recent ignition tune up. It's been an amazing car, and he's seen closer to 28mpg on pure highway trips.

I owned a '94 E320 wagon for 300,000 miles and it probably has some of the same things your E400 has - like a very expensive evaporator to fix if it goes bad. I think the whole dash needs to come apart to get to it so the labor is ridiculous. The evaporators have a pretty high failure rate too.

Also - I remember something about top oil tubes on either the E400 or the E420 that were plastic and cracked causing quite a problem. A quick search on that might shed some light on it.

Thanks,


just bought the car and drove it home. Nice ride. It feels much tighter compared to the 126. I like that.

What concerned me is the oil pressure. The gauge dropped to below 1 bar at idle (600ish) and reached 3 bar only at 1500rpm and not before.
pressure drops to 2 bar at 1000rpm.
Is that of any concern?

Is the car sitting lower on the street than another 124? Is the suspension harder?
I guess the brakes are bigger?

I heard that the engine might be economical if tuned correctly. That is a nice thing. Who on the forum knows about the ignition of the 400e?

420 engine: Does it have the plastic connector at the cam oil lines and does it have the plastic guides at the timing chain? The one that can break off?
Maybe these needed to be exchanged at some point in time.

gear ratio: yes long legs.... I can feel this and the trans doesn't like to shift down unless you really push til the end (and hit the switch at the bottom).

Is there a way to make it downshift easier/earlier?


evaporator and HVAC:
I have changed the evaporator on the 126 .... very much a pita.
This car runs on 134a... will see when it is warmer.

Martin

Maybe I've missed it, but what year is the car. That will impact a couple of your questions.

The car is a 1992 W 124 400E.

Someone said the oil pressure sensor might be bad and showing too low pressure all the way.
Can that be true?

Martin

Looks nice from the pictures. Yours is a 92 so it will have metal oiler tubes for the cams but it does indeed have plastic timing chain guides. $3000 is not a bad price at all. Typically when the oil pressure sender fails it either reads zero or 3 bar at all times. Honestly I think your pressure is fine but I might be inclined to change the oil and use 15w40 Shell Rotella T.

Thanks Gator,
Rotella, the stuff that you put in a diesel correct? With thicker oil it will put up more pressure all the way. Would you also drive Rotella in winter?

How grand are chances that the plastic guide break off?
I had these parts changed on a W109 that was 45 year old.... this car is new with 24 years in comparison.... who knows.

Martin

I ran that oil year around in my 400E. I misspoke earlier its actually the Rosella T6 synthetic I used but yes its still the same oil as folks use in their diesel MB's. I ran that oil year round without any issues and I'm pretty sure the gentleman who I sold the car to is doing the same. If you want to keep conventional oil the regular Rosella T will work fine as well.

I don't have enough experience with the M119 to know how long the guides last but it is something to be aware of.

I was looking around today and it seems the car never got fresh coolant. Lots of sludge in the bottle where you fill in.
I drained as much coolant as I could through the drain valve bottom radiator (right side) but only one gallon came out...not sure why so little.
Ah the bottle was so clogged that the switch indicating low coolant was stuck in closed position...bad bad.

This means the maintenance here was not done properly.


erratic tank gauge: I saw today that the tank gauge is very jumpy...what is this? Bad sender?

During hard acceleration I hear a noise from the right side cylinder bank.. I hope the engine is healthy. How to check?

Drive belt makes a lot of noise... maybe one bearing is shot. Is there a candidate?

Ah the antenna is annoying. It comes out each time the car starts without even turning on the radio...any cure here?

Best, Martin

Martin, I switched to Delo 400 a couple of years ago because of the detergent qualities. Your fuel sender needs to be pulled and cleaned. That is a common problem. There should be info under "search". Don't know what to say on the noise. Do you have a "indie" picked out locally for help? Search the forum for recommendations.
The drive belt isn't making noise, it is probably the idler pulley. Change it out with a MB replacement. And the plastic chain guides should be replaced, at least the uppers. Pull a valve cover and look. If they are dark colored it is probably time. If one breaks, kiss your engine "adios"
Anziani
'97 CL600 52K

Sludge in the overflow tank can result from mixing antifreeze types....

Jim

I've done both, a 91 560SEL, and a 95 E320 wagon.
Not much difference, both a real time consumer.

I recall the 400E was originally filled with R134a.
The two I've owned (92 and 93) both cooled well in the hot Virginia summers.

Jim

You don't have to use Rotella. Any oil with a primary API service category of CJ-4 is fine. Chevron Delo, Mobil Delvac, and Shell Rotella are the major national brands, but there are many house brands including Walmart's SuperTech, which is usually cheaper.

I think your oil pressure it okay. My W201 owner's manual says as low 0.3 bar at idle is acceptable. My five-speed typically pulls 1.5 bar at 700 idle speed, but the lower idle speed of autos will reduce oil pressure. The lowest I've seen is about 1 Bar in hot weather, heavy traffic.

15W-40 CJ-4 is okay down to consistent cold starts as low as about 15 deg. F. Below that use the 5W-40 "synthetic" CJ-4, but it's more expensive.

The following link has everything you need to know about selecting engine oil for vintage engines with sliding surface valve trains. The article starts on page 3.

http://www.stlouisncrs.org/news_files/St_Louis_NCRS_Chapter_July_2011.pdf

Duke

car sitting lower than normal?

V8, sportline and facelifted W124s (except the diesel) sat a bit lower than normal - a few mm - mostly it looked lower because of the rocker sill trim leaning forwards at the front wheel.

There is one part on a V8, sportline and E320 W124 that makes the front suspension very expensive to repair - its the ball joints, they are not replaceable like other models (e.g. diesel)

the whole arms need to be swapped - quite a penny.

If the front tires have bad camber wear then a ball joint inspection is must, if they are shot - dont drive the car, you may total it and also injure yourself too.

the joints need to be checked by jacking the lower control arm and levering the spindle upwards.

I also think your oil pressure is ok. My E-420 with 242,758 miles holds at 1.5 bar, hot weather idle at 500-550 rpm. Records show regular oil changes with Pennzoil 15W40 through the 200,000 mile mark and I have used Delo 400 since I bought the car. It still has the plastic oilers with no problems yet. I will eventually replace them when I do my upper chain guides. Don

Thanks for all the comments.

I did 2 things
1) changed engine oil to Rotella 15W40 , dropped the oil pan before and checked the screen (changed it actually)...
Was clean like a whistle down there.
Since then the pressure doesn't drop below 1bar...mostly 1.5bar at idle.

2) I flushed the bad coolant (citrus) and filled with G05. Drained through radiator and block drains. While I was there I changed the thermostat.
Temperature now goes slightly above 80C.
So far no engine oil is showing up in the coolant tank...but I have only 500 miles on the new coolant thus far.

I guess if engine oil pops up I'd try and tighten head bolts slightly. What do you think?

I have used seafoam in the tank and added some ATF.
Since one week the erratic movement of the gas gauge stopped! I'll see if it starts again.

Thanks so much for all your support.

One question regarding the transmission oil change and downshift behavior of the trans....
ATF: As I don't know how old that stuff is ...Would you just drain ATF and fill up with new fluid (without changing the filter)? At least then I know that fresh fluid is in.

Downshift: The car does not downshift unless I really push the pedal to the floor- WOT-switch..it works) How can I adjust the cable properly (from throttle linkage down to the trans) and does the adjustment influences shift points for upshift (I guess yes) and downshifts?.
I think the car drives great but what I miss is a more agile shift (like on a BMW).

How much work is it to change spark plugs and service ignition? Anything to adjust or is the ignition still on distributor?

Best, Martin

Martin,
If you are going to the trouble of changing the ATF, I would change the screen and the fluid in the torque converter. Be sure you use the recommended spark plugs. They are not expensive and problems arise with using resistor plugs on these engines. Don't remember what year this car is but if it has distributors/rotors I sure would take a hard look at them. Unfortunately they are NOT cheap.
Anziani
'97 CL600 53K

What are the recommended spark plugs for the 1992 400E?
I have bought Bosch F8DC4 0.8mm gap. Does that sound right?

Martin

Can anyone confirm the correct spark plug for the 400E?
Thanks, Martin