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-   -   Strange engine behavior (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=383670)

Matt Laube 01-25-2017 05:38 PM

Strange engine behavior
 
1992 300E 3.0 -165 k miles
Following have been replaced : suppressor shield under rotor ,distributor cap and rotor-wires are recent .Lubed linkage and checked cable

Engine will not rev past idle at times, possibly heat related. Initially the car would display this symptom and then perform normally . It is like putting your foot into air the as it does not respond. Never stalls ...once the revs went crazy near red line burning gravel...

Next two guesses are rear Crank angle sensor and coil. Ideas ?

Diseasel300 01-25-2017 07:25 PM

If the engine speed isn't changing and the engine isn't stalling, it isn't fuel OR spark. With the throttle plate tipped in, if they aren't varying, the engine will stall. I'd be looking at linkages for something loose, broken, or worn to the point you get intermittent operation.

97 SL320 01-25-2017 08:43 PM

This car likely has the sort of drive by wire throttle where a linkage and a electric motor operate the throttle blade.

If you are having a problem with the traction control system, it can prevent going above idle.

stormyc88 01-26-2017 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 97 SL320 (Post 3676563)
This car likely has the sort of drive by wire throttle where a linkage and a electric motor operate the throttle blade.

If you are having a problem with the traction control system, it can prevent going above idle.

Not on a 92 300e. All mechanical throttle linkage via cable, and rods with ball and socket type joints.

Maybe the microswitch on the throttle linkage? They can cause problems but I dont know about anything that severe...
But overall I'd have to agree about something being broken on the throttle linkage and internittently not engaging or getting stuck.
I assume this is the m103?

97 SL320 01-26-2017 06:32 PM

The system I'm speaking of is a hybrid where the throttle body has a electric motor and clutch plus an actual mechanical linkage. The electric motor can override the linkage.

Have a look here for a 94 E230 http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/M104/M104_ETA_rewiring.pdf

I know at least the M104 ASR cars had this, I have a 1991 300SL with such a system and a motor from a 96 E320 that still has this type of arrangement

97 was the first year for true drive by wire ( no linkage between the pedal and throttle blade ) at least on the SL320 , C280 , E320 .

Have a look here for a 94 E230 http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/M104/M104_ETA_rewiring.pdf

stormyc88 01-26-2017 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 97 SL320 (Post 3676839)
The system I'm speaking of is a hybrid where the throttle body has a electric motor and clutch plus an actual mechanical linkage. The electric motor can override the linkage.

Have a look here for a 94 E230 http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/M104/M104_ETA_rewiring.pdf

I know at least the M104 ASR cars had this, I have a 1991 300SL with such a system and a motor from a 96 E320 that still has this type of arrangement

97 was the first year for true drive by wire ( no linkage between the pedal and throttle blade ) at least on the SL320 , C280 , E320 .

Have a look here for a 94 E230 http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/M104/M104_ETA_rewiring.pdf

Right, I'm familiar with how those engines are set up, but the OP's car is a '92 300E, which came standard with the m103 engine, which utilizes a straight mechanical throttle linkage to actuate the throttle plate.
Your 1991 SL has the more advanced 104 engine, but the 300e ran with the older 103 engine until 1993 as the standard 3.0 option.

nulu 01-26-2017 09:55 PM

Check ignition coil first , should have a spark blue in color able to jump a1/4 to 1/2 gap, next item, eha can cause that, test and or replace, last check fuel pumps and or relay, disconnect fuel line under hood into a container should flow 1 litre in 20 seconds

rayhennig 01-27-2017 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormyc88 (Post 3676871)
Your 1991 SL has the more advanced 104 engine, but the 300e ran with the older 103 engine until 1993 as the standard 3.0 option.

I'm not certain about this but I thought that, in the USA, 300E got the M104.980 engine in about 1991. Or was it just the 300CE?

Maybe the OP could confirm either 1 or 2 camshafts?

Either way the rules for the M103 and the M104.980/1 are much the same with cable only throttle linkage.

RayH

Stretch 01-27-2017 09:47 AM

Is it fitted to an automatic transmission?

####


On the whole I'm surprised it isn't stalling - the throttle valve (below the air flow plate on the mixing unit) should make enough suction to drag the plate down...

...perhaps a simple with engine off check - push down on the air flow plate (just under the air filter) will show some stiff movement?

Stretch 01-27-2017 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayhennig (Post 3676922)
I'm not certain about this but I thought that, in the USA, 300E got the M104.980 engine in about 1991. Or was it just the 300CE?

Maybe the OP could confirm either 1 or 2 camshafts?

Either way the rules for the M103 and the M104.980/1 are much the same with cable only throttle linkage.

RayH

I thought the first load of M104s also had CIS though...

Ferdman 01-27-2017 10:17 AM

rayhennig, a 1991 300CE has the 104.980 engine with CIS. A 1993 300E 3.2 has the 104.992 engine with HFM, as do the 1994 & 1995 E320 models. The 1996 & 1997 E320 models have the 104.995 engine with HFM.

rayhennig 01-27-2017 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferdman (Post 3676950)
rayhennig, a 1991 300CE has the 104.980 engine with CIS. A 1993 300E 3.2 has the 104.992 engine with HFM, as do the 1994 & 1995 E320 models. The 1996 & 1997 E320 models have the 104.995 engine with HFM.

Yes, I've heard that but I'm in Europe and things were different here. However, the OP said his is a '92 car. Maybe he should take a photo and reveal all to us, then we'll know.

And yes, to the other reply, the early M104s - 104.980 & 104.981 - had the Bosch KE Jetronic with separate ignition controlled by the hated, €3000 EZL.

RayH

Ferdman 01-27-2017 02:08 PM

rayhennig, tell me about the expensive EZL (ECU). Our daughter had a 1991 300CE which suddenly died on the highway. Since I also had a 1991 300CE I loaned her the EZL so she could drive her car. After searching for months for a new EZL the Parts Department manager at our local MB dealer realized an EZL for a 1991 300SL was identical and ordered one. As I recall it cost $2,500 with a discount.

The secret to extending the life of the EZL is to maintain the ignition system by-the-book.

Matt Laube 01-27-2017 04:11 PM

The car is an Auto trans M 103 engine.

I believe these are in the clear as far as biohazard wiring harness issues. .

I checked the linkage and found the cruise was actuating when the accel./linkage was pressed. Like it was working against the mechanical linkage- Mind you this was with the cruise off! I was thinking about the traction control if this isn't the answer as I will disconnect the cruise actuator linkage.

Supposedly the car has a misfire .....but I never felt it .

97 SL320 01-27-2017 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferdman (Post 3676950)
The 1996 & 1997 E320 models have the 104.995 engine with HFM.


A small detail, the 97 E320 ( plus SL320 / C class ) had ME2.0 / 2.1 and the 5 speed electronic shift 722.6 trans. I have each of the 97 cars mentioned and pulled the engine from a 96 E320 HFM / 4 speed hydraulic shift trans.


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