This would be a good vid to watch , thought it is not so work / family friendly ( He is from Australia so figure he uses the Australian rules football book in his journalism. )

The guy makes some very valid points, Numbers 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8

I watched Sony start to topple 15 + years ago when lesser makes achieved same or better quality / performance at a lower price. Seems MB is following a similar path.

Top 10 Mercedes Benz Myths

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAgY6A3RPcU

I've seen that video before and he makes a lot of very good points. An important one he left out was that the modern cars look like everything else too. Mercedes has turned into a brand that's all about gadgets and toys. The car and the engineering going into it seems to be an afterthought to having the latest and greatest tech that's obsolete by the time you buy the car.

As much as I love my old Mercs I'd never consider a newer one. They're just not interesting enough, reliable enough, or financially sensible to own. They're just another car that costs more than it should when new because of the badge on the hood.

My SL is a posterchild for the unreliability claims, I swear it breaks something every time it leaves the garage. But I enjoy driving it, it's gorgeous to look at, and I enjoy working on it.

I fully expect this thread will turn into a flamefest at some point, but hopefully there's some rational dialogue before it does.

__________________
Current stable:
1995 E320 157K (Nancy)
1983 500SL 125K (SLoL)

Gone but not forgotten:
1986 300SDL (RIP)
1991 350SD
1991 560SEL
1990 560SEL
1986 500SEL Euro (Rusted to nothing at 47K!)

Gone and wanting to forget:
1985 524TD 167K (TotalDumpster™) [Definitely NOT a Benz]

I think MB is having a tough time with actual engineering / short design cycles in the sense that " Anyone can build a bridge that lasts forever, but it takes engineering to build something that lasts just long enough and uses a minimum of materials / labor " .

Calling the older cars " Over engineered " is an insult to engineers. I'd call the cars " Over built for the expected life cycle. " I'd think that most older MB were discarded long before they reached expected mileage / age.

As stated in the vid, lots of the tech comes from outside suppliers and they hold the keys to reliability.


Yep, this is the issue with Sony.

If you are speaking of your 83 SL, it is a but unfair to use a 35 year old car as an example. It first must be judged against it's contemporaries and tempered with it being a 35 year old car.

I life parts and change them before they fail, this greatly reduces the " It is randomly broken again "

A huge issue with push on electrical connections is corrosion / tarnish growing under the contact area. This is why sometimes removing and reseating connectors fixes problems. In the day, most all cars had unsealed tin plated connectors, MB used unsealed silver plated connectors making them more reliable than other cars. However, once sealed connectors started to show up in the 80's, they became more reliable than the silver plated MB connectors still found in small numbers on my 1997 C and SL.

Another issue is electrolytic capacitors that dry out or, in a long inactive system, need reformed by leaving them energized for a time.

We would really need to see data from 2008 and newer MB to determine current state of the union.

MB started the cost-cutting and gadget-infusion when the Asian manufacturers showed up on the scene with their luxury models and started making MB look outdated, underequipped, and unreliable. The Asian makes are just better at putting something together, making it hold up for a reasonable period, putting a decent pricetag on it, and developing a reputation. Just look at Lexus for a good example, the brand didn't even exist until 1989 and it's now a more important marque than MB, often with higher resale value.


The old cars definitely aren't over-engineered, they're over-built. There's a difference. The designs were restrained, the build quality was good, the materials were good, and the longevity is good. There's a reason they have a cult following. Look at the 80s American cars for a comparison. Other than the muscle cars, there aren't many from the era that people actually want, and for good reasons.


Most vehicle manufacturers have access to similar technology, materials, parts, etc from various parts manufacturers. What differs is the implementation in the final product. MB has had a number of relatively high profile failings in the last decade or so - balance shafts coming apart, variable intake manifolds breaking, oil coolers failing, transmissions needing software updates to function properly, diesel engines that can't meet emissions without cheating... If other manufacturers can get by without problem after problem, why can't MB if they're pulling from the same parts bins? Implementation.


The '83 SL has been in the family since 1998. At the time, a 15 year old car, 2 owners, well maintained, and just as unreliable back then as it is today (there's a reason it's still pretty low mileage). If it were my only car, it would have been gone long ago, but it isn't. It has character, it's a nice car to drive in nice weather, and it keeps me busy. The SDL is the polar opposite. Add fuel and oil and drive on. It's only issues are due to age and neglect - something that affects any car from any manufacturer.

__________________
Current stable:
1995 E320 157K (Nancy)
1983 500SL 125K (SLoL)

Gone but not forgotten:
1986 300SDL (RIP)
1991 350SD
1991 560SEL
1990 560SEL
1986 500SEL Euro (Rusted to nothing at 47K!)

Gone and wanting to forget:
1985 524TD 167K (TotalDumpster™) [Definitely NOT a Benz]

On the V6 is is more of the sprocket not being hardened enough. And. . . not taking into account harmonic vibrations that hammer the sprocket. This is a prime case of history repeating it's self, look at the Citroen SM V6 that was a reliable cut down V8 Maserati.

Porsche has problems with balance shafts on " whatever the water cooled 911 is called " They use a sealed ball bearing rather than oil lubed. Yikes.

They also have a problem with cylinder liners splitting on low mile / lightly driven cars. The issue is too high a cylinder pressure from low RPM / large throttle openings required to hit fuel economy and likely emissions targets.


I'd bet the person designing this neglected to account for intake manifold pulsations ( just like the balance shaft ) and was still viewing the world as being made up of friction-less pulleys and ideal gasses. ( think about the ideal gas part for a bit )


Don't know about this. However, if the actual cooler element is failing and not the MB interface, I'd lay blame on the supplier since it is unlikely MB makes their own.

An automatic trans is a hugely complicated system so I give some room there. This especially true of a modern electronic auto trans where shift timing and clutch volume is monitored to keep shifts consistent. Mix in the variability of drivers + wear and it is extremely difficult to get right.

Think about this, if a driver tips the throttle in during a shift in anticipation of the engine slowing down, line pressure must rise to prevent clutch damage. If line pressure rises too rapidly / too high, the shift will be a slide bump leading to customer complaints. ( RE: driver perceives engine slowing down as car is slowing down. )

The US market is very different than the rest of the world. And so are its buyers.

e.g. all Subaru owners pay big money to keep their cars running - you will never see a subaru boxer4 that has not had its headgaskets replaced. But still its considered very good.

OTOH, a ford fusion which blew its gasket becomes a POS.

__________________
2012 BMW X5 (Beef + Granite suspension model)

1995 E300D - The original humming machine (consumed by Flood 2017)
2000 E320 - The evolution (consumed by flood 2017)

While Down-unda' Curly may have some valid points on the marketing and the lower cost models, there are some really good engineers at MB trying to keep themselves ahead of the others. It's a competitive market out there.

__________________
Prost!

I bought my '99 E320 based on my experience with an indestructible '79 300CD. If the WTC hadn't fallen on the 300CD, I'd still have it. But the E320, long gone and unlamented. $50K down the drain. I wouldn't bother with a new Mercedes today.

I'm always surprised when folks on these boards wax poetic about their 210's. Maybe expectations are different if you're buying a second hand status symbol. Maybe time has sorted out all the lemons. Most likely it's a new generation of owners who has no clue. My Outback won the reliability contest over the 210 Mercedes hands down.

Yep, we rarely hear about " problem " cars that run forever.

Another issue is the more systems put in a car , the greater chance that something will fail.