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  #1  
Old 09-23-2020, 01:36 PM
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Ambient Temp Stalling Issue

Chasing this issue for 2 years now with my 190e. When the car is in closed loop and the ambient temp is low-70s and below the car will randomly stall when braking. Honestly it does not happen mid-70s and above which is super weird to me and makes it really hard to track down, can only test in the fall and winter. I can't really reproduce it either, just completely random.

Anyone have any ideas, IACV has been replaced?

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  #2  
Old 09-23-2020, 02:11 PM
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Interesting issue. For a car to stall you need to either lose fuel or spark or both.

What I would do:

Wire up one volt meter to the fuel pump and the other one to the ignition coil and put them in the interior. When the stall happens just observe what they say.

Then I would start diagnosing further

Also - Year? 2.3? 2.6?
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  #3  
Old 09-23-2020, 02:13 PM
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Sounds like a manifold vacuum leak. Cold weather exacerbates vacuum leaks and CIS systems are very sensitive to them.
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  #4  
Old 09-23-2020, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diseasel300 View Post
Sounds like a manifold vacuum leak. Cold weather exacerbates vacuum leaks and CIS systems are very sensitive to them.
I doubt it. That would show up as a hard start/rough idle

His car stalls when braking and when the engine is warm. More like an intermittent bad contact.
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  #5  
Old 09-23-2020, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christuna View Post
I doubt it. That would show up as a hard start/rough idle

His car stalls when braking and when the engine is warm. More like an intermittent bad contact.
Doubt all you want, I went through exactly this behavior with a manifold vacuum leak on a BMW. When the engine is cold, it runs open loop (rich). When it warms up, the ECU tries to control fuel trims. The EHA has a limited degree that it can control the fueling to override the MAF plate on the fuel distributor, if there's enough of a vacuum leak, that can be enough to make the engine run lean enough when coasting or braking to stall. Cold air (especially if damp) makes the problem worse since it is denser than hot, dry air.
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  #6  
Old 09-23-2020, 03:36 PM
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89 2.6

I have had an intermittent hard start the whole time as well, hot and cold weather, always starts on the second turn, but hard starts seem to be the norm on these. No idle issues though.

I've been meaning to try a smoke test regardless so maybe I'll start there. I also haven't tested the fuel pressures which is also on my list.
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  #7  
Old 11-25-2020, 12:50 PM
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I haven't had a chance to do a smoke test yet, but I had another stall today which is an oddity. Backing into the garage, using the brake to regulate speed annnnnd stall. Would a vacuum leak still be a likely candidate here?
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  #8  
Old 11-25-2020, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maranelloboy05 View Post
Chasing this issue for 2 years now with my 190e. When the car is in closed loop and the ambient temp is low-70s and below the car will randomly stall when braking. Honestly it does not happen mid-70s and above which is super weird to me and makes it really hard to track down, can only test in the fall and winter. I can't really reproduce it either, just completely random.

Anyone have any ideas, IACV has been replaced?
Quote:
Originally Posted by maranelloboy05 View Post
I haven't had a chance to do a smoke test yet, but I had another stall today which is an oddity. Backing into the garage, using the brake to regulate speed annnnnd stall. Would a vacuum leak still be a likely candidate here?
Consider an investigation of the vacuum line to the brake booster, the check valve in that line, and the control valve in the booster.
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  #9  
Old 11-25-2020, 05:13 PM
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Booster line seems to be in good condition, definitely not original, nothing obvious that I can see.

That said, this only happens once the car is warmed up and in sub-mid 70s temps. That engine is HOT by the time it hits operating temp. What possible effect could the cold air outside the car have on the vacuum lines. Even if there were leaks, the engine bay temp is the same in August as it is in December when the cars warmed up.
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  #10  
Old 11-26-2020, 04:24 PM
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I am going with the vacuum leak theory, and there may be associated other faults as well such as brake booster leak, O2 sensor, air temp sensor. The brake booster "consumes" vacuum when you press the brakes. Just as a test, I would try pressing the brakes multiple times (when you are standing still, not driving) when the engine is warm (and running obviously) on a "warm" day. See if you can recreate the stall without the air being "cold", just by using the brakes more. It might provide a clue. Or maybe not.
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1988 F150 144,000 miles (leaks all the colors of the rainbow)
Previous stars: 1981 Brava 210,000 miles, 1978 128 150,000 miles, 1977 B200 Van 175,000 miles, 1972 Vega (great, if rusty, car), 1972 Celica, 1986.5 Supra
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  #11  
Old 11-26-2020, 07:58 PM
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The air flow potentiometer can cause stalling when braking to a stop. Check the voltage on it as deflecting the plate. An open spot near the zero position will do it.
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  #12  
Old 11-28-2020, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duxthe1 View Post
The air flow potentiometer can cause stalling when braking to a stop. Check the voltage on it as deflecting the plate. An open spot near the zero position will do it.
Would the dead spot cause an issue whenever idling, not just when braking?
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1998 C230 330,000 miles (currently dead of second failed EIS, yours will fail too, turning you into the dealer's personal human cash machine)
1988 F150 144,000 miles (leaks all the colors of the rainbow)
Previous stars: 1981 Brava 210,000 miles, 1978 128 150,000 miles, 1977 B200 Van 175,000 miles, 1972 Vega (great, if rusty, car), 1972 Celica, 1986.5 Supra
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  #13  
Old 11-28-2020, 06:56 PM
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I’ve never been able to replicate it consistently. Has never done it while idling. It has happened when when parking at a high steering angle, not sure if that’s coincidence or the extra load on the power steering has caused an increased chance of it happening, however it’s happened with no load on the power steering as well.

Pouring down rain today so I’ll do some potentiometer testing tomorrow.
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  #14  
Old 11-29-2020, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpolli View Post
Would the dead spot cause an issue whenever idling, not just when braking?

Only when braking. It actually happens coming out of decel, when the ecu is looking at the potentiometer voltage to set the idle valve position. If potentiometer voltage drops below the lower threshold (somewhere around .4-.5V IIRC) it assumes a stalled engine and doesn't even try to catch and idle it.

When checking the potentiometer voltage, its this lower voltage range that must be smooth and linear. A glitch at 2V isn't going to cause this problem, but if it goes open somewhere around .5V-1V you've found your smoking gun
__________________

90 300TE 4-M
Turbo 103, T3/T04E 50 trim
T04B cover .60 AR
Stage 3 turbine .63 AR
A2W I/C, 40 LB/HR
MS2E, 60-2 Direct Coil Control
3" Exh, AEM W/B O2
Underdrive Alt. and P/S Pulleys,
Vented Rear Discs, .034 Booster.
3.07 diffs 1st Gear Start

90 300CE
104.980
Milled & ported head, 10.3:1 compression
197 intake cam w/20 advancer
Tuned CIS ECU
4 ignition advance
PCS TCM2000, built 722.6
600W networked suction fan
Sportline sway bars
V8 rear subframe, Quaife ATB 3.06 diff
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  #15  
Old 11-29-2020, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duxthe1 View Post
Only when braking. It actually happens coming out of decel, when the ecu is looking at the potentiometer voltage to set the idle valve position. If potentiometer voltage drops below the lower threshold (somewhere around .4-.5V IIRC) it assumes a stalled engine and doesn't even try to catch and idle it.

When checking the potentiometer voltage, its this lower voltage range that must be smooth and linear. A glitch at 2V isn't going to cause this problem, but if it goes open somewhere around .5V-1V you've found your smoking gun
That sounds really likely, any idea if it would happen in cool/cold weather only?

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