help! diagnose tranny!
 

i kinda refuse to believe what the mech said about tranny replacement. i hope i can find an alternative way to fix it.
this is the situation:
i have an 88' 190E 2.6, with a 300E 3.0 motor swaped, i don't khow if they replace the tranny, i don't know where to look for numbers.
i'm experiencing neck snapping jerk every time i reach 4K rpm, any gear on 2, 3, and D they all jerks at 4K rpm.
can anyone please tell me why its acting like this?
redline is a little over 6K but it just wont let me pass over 4K
the mech told me i need tranny replacement which is about $1500
my car still runs good below 4K rpm, but whats the use of having 3.0 if i can't max it
on freeway, i can only run a little above 80mph, over that it will horribly jerks and its scary!!!
so please if anybody have an idea whats the cause, please say something.
all thoughts are apreciated.
thank you so much,
jds

You need the transmission that is used with the 3.0 engine.

The transmission used for the 2.6 engine cannot handle the torque of the 3.0 engine.

thanks for the fast reply.
i got the car like that, and assuming that the tranny is not replaced, do you have any idea what p/n of the tranny i have to look for? so i'm assuming its still going to cost me about $1500?
is there any other successful direct swap you can reccomend?
thanks,
jds

The 190E 2.6, 300E 2.6, 260E, and 300E 2.8 all used the 722.4 transmission.

The 300E, E320, and E420 used the 722.3 transmission, which is the one you should use, providing that it'll fit.

My reaction is to back off the system pressure on the trans by turning the adjuster in at least a full turn. I think this might be torque related.

The adjuster is located on the left hand side, I believe of your transmission. There is a little rubber dust cap that you remove. Pull out the chrone T-handle, twist inwards to reduce pressure. Push the handle back in, replace the cap.

You can almost reach it without jacking it up, although easier with the jack.

Anyone else?

sure would try backing off that key on modulator takes a good 4 minutes ,don't even have to jack it uo if you are thin .It can do wonders for harsh shift . I thought my SE was going to break in half on both up and down shifts when I first got it untill I softened up the modulator.........
William Rogers.......

William

Where in Oregon?

I have a 190 E w/ a 2.6 The shift Modulator is red, driver side of the tranns, and is hard as hell to get to without a medical clamp. I used my fishing hook remover to get the cover off and adjust. There is a little T handle inside. Turning it to the left makes the car shift softer and to the right makes it shift harder. I have been told by a tech that if the pressure is to high it can chirp the tires while shifting. He did say that MB Trans last so long because they by nature shift harder, lessing the wear inside. Don't know if this helps at all.

wow!, thanks for all your reply! i'll try looking for that shift modulator this afternoon and andjust to see if it will fix my problem.
paul,
722.3 x-mission, where is that stamped? is it visible outside/under the housing?
thanks again guys,
jds

the stamp is on the bottom edge on the passenger side. i have the same tranny in my car. it was replaced under warranty 30k miles ago, the replacement tranny has the numbers ground off!:confused: the giveaway is the shape of the pan, the gaskets are a different shape than from the 300E tranny. if you pop that cover it may be a good idea to have a replacement handy because they can easily break and the t-handle can fall out without the cover. they cost two bucks or so...

thanks for the heads up hermann. its been busy in my mech's shop today, all the lifts are occupied. i might try to look at it on saturday.
thanks,
jds

i can't wait til saturday, i made a quick peep under the car, unfortunately, i did not found any 722.4 or 722.3, maybe i'm looking on the wrong spot. i did found some numbers stamped and maybe you guys are familiar on what this is.
103 014 07 02 before bell housing?

123 2770 103

201 271 00 01

does this 3 numbers ring a bell?

i did not see any rubber dust cap neither.
sorry for consuming your time guys, but if it doesn't bother at all, can anyone post a picture of where the dust cap is?
otherwise, i'll take some photos this saturday upon lifting the car and if i still can't find it, ill attachthe picst here and tell me where at.
again sorry for my ignorance.
thanks,
jds

This picture shows the location of the modulator. But if your 190e is like mine it will be red rather than black. The rubber dust cap is about the size of a dime. As I stated in my prior post it's really hard to get to. I had to replace mine because the bladder broke inside mine, sending trans. fluid up into the intake manifold. I had to roll the transmission to get to it. I then adjusted it with a medical clamp.

Haasman,

we live in costal mts. between Eugene and Florence ,the nearest P.O is Deadwood .We are surrounded by Forest Service lands and live on a small farm......
William Rogers........

DIYBenzer
 

How did the bladder break? And where did you get the image of the transmission?..... It's really good quality!

I've looked right past the modulator while searching for it in the past. Thanks!

David,
I'm not quite sure why it ruptured, but it did have 170K on it. I kept losing trans fluid and could not find out where it was going. One day I noticed red fluid bubbling up in a vacuum line on the back intake manifold. Sure enough when I tracked the line it went right into the shift Modulator.

The picture was from another great Mercedes Shop forum Member who was patient enough to explain to me where the test pressure ports were on the trans to set the modulator. This was my old post:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?threadid=29527&highlight=modulator

Come to find out most Techs adjust it to feel rather than hooking up a hydraulic tester. They just test drive around; give it a half turn either way to get it shifting right. If it's too soft the gears will almost feel like they slide vs. shifting. And forth will jump way to quickly to fifth.

I had to read your old link several times. I couldn't understand how the guy could adjust the pressure while driving 31 mph down the road. Finally figured it out.

Thanks for all your help. I only wish the vacuum line was shown in that picture too. I'm assuming it's somewhere close to the modulator? I quess if I find the modulator I will find the vacuum line too, I hope.

Thanks again

Is it really a transmission problem?
 

I'm wondering about his first post - he says the engine won't rev over 4K, and is redlined at 6K - could this actually be a rev limiter problem that's related to getting a different distributor signal? (I don't know anything about either engine, but rev limiters can cause significant jerking, and he hasn't said anything about a SHIFTING problem, just a REV problem that can occur in any gear! If, for instance, the 300E is a six and the 190 is a 4, that would make the rev limiter (assuming it has one, and most EFI systems do) operate at 2/3 the rpm on the 300E that it would have on the 190... (I'm making a lot of assumptions here, one being that the engine management system, or at least the rev limiter is still for the 190)
Just a totally uninformed, uneducated thought....

Richard Wooldridge
1982 300D/4.3 V6
Etc...

Sorry read it wrong
 

Sorry I read the post first time it was wrong it’s the other way around but same rules apply.

1. As Sugimami said about the transmission types your car has a 722.409 and a tranny for the 300E 3.0 needs to be a 722.358 this is a little different. I ask a similar question and M.B. Doc advised that the Valve Body inside the unit has to be different too http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?threadid=49736 I did some more researched and he is on the money! I was just trying to go from a 722.408 to a 722.409, but you have a whole different series…

2. To be sure of what you have you got to get the numbers it is on the passenger side of the unit horizontal just above the pan gasket, it might hidden under dirt and oil just wipe it clean . It should be a whole bunch of number 24 in all. Something like this “124 270 03 00 722 409 02 123456” the break down is like this:
. a. The first 10 number is your part number yours should be one 124 270 03 00
. b. The next 6 is your series it should be 722 409 only!
. c. The next 2, “02” designate it’s a left hand steering and a automatic.
. d. The last 6 is your serial number.

3. This modulator for the 722.409 is red. The one for the 722.358 is black. The following are specs you need to be at:
. a. Modulating pressure: 722.409=3,3 bars / 722.358=4,0 bars
. b. Operation pressure: 722.409=10,9±1,0 bars / 722.358=13,0±1,0 bars
. c. Governor pressure: @30 km/h both are 0,9 bars / but @90 km/h 722.409=2,4 bars / 722.358=2,3 bars

4. The picture that DIYBenz got is from http://www.transonline.com/ it use to be free but now you have to pay. For the 722.3 and 722.4 they had over 30 pages of very detailed color pictures, luckily I printed them out before they turned it off sorry don’t have a soft copy…

5. Hey if you can, ask for a swap for a 722.358, you got a good working unit, not sure of your location but look at http://car-part.com/ a use unit for a 300E 3.0 is between $600-$1000 I didn’t see anything over 1K.

Let us know what you find out,
Thai GI sends...

diybenzer,
thanks for the picture. i went under the car again, and like yours i saw a red modulator with i think a black cap in the middle. its gonna be tight working my hands in there.
did you use the medical clamp ti turn the T-handle?
i'll try to do this tomorrow, and hope it'll work.
thanks,
jds

sorry for the late update.
came saturday, we lift the car and finally found out that the transmission is still the original 2.6 tranny. we manage to turn the modulator to a half turn to the left, yes it made the car shift more softer than before, but it did not made any difference on the jerking problem at 4K rpm. its still there.
richard,
can you or anybody here tell me more about the rev limitter? where and how to do the adjustment(if possible).

i don't have the money right now for me to do the tranny swap and i'm not even sure if everything will fit as per suginami states " The 300E, E320, and E420 used the 722.3 transmission, which is the one you should use, providing that it'll fit."
so i'm trying to find out whats the next best thing to do.

on another note, potomac pat is selling a M104 engine complete per his post at 190E revolution,
" I just took possesion of low mileage M104 engine. It is a complete engine assembly !! All brackets & harnesses included.

If you own a 90-93 (W201) 190E 2.6 this is a drop in conversion with minimal swapping and it is FASSSSSSSST !!!"

does this means that the buyer would still need the tranny for that to work right?

thanks guys,
jds

I just have to believe that the transmission needs to be pared up with the engine that it was designed to work with. I think it's the same issue that you have now with the 3.0 engine working properly with a tranmssion that was used with a different engine.

Just know that I'm not a technician. I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

:p

okay, i did not think about this, i tried putting it on park(P), then rev the engine. it acted wierd on 4000 rpm. needle goes up and down within the 4000rpm range. transmission is not engage right? and rpm should go pass 4000 to at least 6000 rpm? but it won't. so could this be related to rev limitter? please anyone give me an advise.
thanks,
jds