Engine failure due to lack of oil changes with Synthetic
 

I copied this post from the forum on the Mercedes Benz Club of America website.

Just thought it would be an interesting read for those who think Synthetic oil lasts forever:

"Earlier today, I saw a failed engine on a Jeep Grand Cherokee that is interesting to consider. All the engine bearings failed. The bearing inserts saw high heat. They and the connecting rod caps are black. The crankshaft is ruined. It looks like the fix is a new long block. The engine was using a synthetic oil which starts with the letter A and is distributed by independent distributors. The owner had the idea that this fabulous synthetic oil is good for many, many thousands of miles of around-town driving with filter changes every 6 to 7 thousand miles. The oil had 27,000 miles on it at time of engine failure. The tech believes that the engine failure is directly related to the owner's failure to change oil on a regular basis."

Conversely, one can say the engine lasted 27,000 miles. I've heard stories where engines with regular oil were neglected and lasted the same amount. I mention this because sometimes - when reading oil threads - I get the feeling regular oil is underrated.

Anybody that accumulates 27 k mile with the same oil qualifies for the " Idiot of the year " award.
Actually, sad as it was, a friend of mine, a few years ago, was also using the " A " oil, changing filters only at 5 k mile intervals ( as recommended by the same " A " company ).
After two destroyed engines ( to which " A " company had no comments ), he finally adjusted his oil & filter change intervals to something more reasonable.
He also changed to the " M " company for all his oil, and has experienced many trouble free mile since.;)

One word, stupid stupid stupid. 27,000 miles eh, is this a record? I wonder what gave this person the idea that synthetic oil would last forever, even teflon wears out over time.

Manny, wouldn't the "A" company be liable for the destroyed engines if it was claimed that only filter changes would be needed when using their product?

Back in the late eighties I was at the dealer and there was a 190E 2.3 in the service lane that had a ticking engine. My service advisor told me that the owner had never changed the oil, and the car had about 25K miles. Of course, it was still on warranty, but MBZ would have been justified for not honoring it because the owner did not observe the 7500 miles or six month oil change requirement.

Most new cars that require synthetic oil have oil quality monitoring systems that tell you when it is time to change oil. If you have an older car and want to use synthetic, I would not go beyond 10K miles or one year, which renders synthetic not cost effective, because it is at least double the price of conventional oil.

Back when I was driving my 190E 2.6 every day I changed the oil and filter every 5K miles, which worked out to about three times per year.

Since none of my cars accumulate much mileage now I change the oil and filter every year - use conventional spark ignition engine oil (API service category SL) on modern cars with catalytic converters and HD diesel engine oil (API service category CI-4) on the vintage cars without converters. CI-4 oil has a richer additive package that is good for the vintage cars with carburetors that tend to suffer more oil dilution due to imprecise mixture control, but the combustion byproducts of these additives are not kind to converters. Also, modern fuel injected emission controlled engines have much more precise fuel metering, so they don't necessarily need the additional additive concentration of the CI-4 oils.

Bottom line - unless you're an engineer with plenty of experience in engine lubrication requirements, follow the manufacturer's recommendation for oil change interval and service products.

Duke

Big difference if you get this " expert" advice verbally or written.;)
He also used their auxillary by-pass filter, which gave him "added protection".
If I remember correctly ( old age is a ***** ), they offered him a case of oil & filters as compensation.
The value of two engines should have been two cases of gold bars.:)

Interesting discussion.

Oil changes are a MUST, no matter what oil is being used.

On the recommendation of my mechanic, I switched away from synthetics on my 560 SEL with 104k miles on it. He felt that you should change the oil and filter every 3k to 4k, and the cheaper, standard oil is just fine for those inervals.

Why?

Because of sludge. He felt that by streching the oil changes using synthetic, the risk of sludge clogging is higher. So if you shorten the interval, you lose the benefit of the synthetic, and you're just blowing away dough.

He has a 500 Convertible.

He charges $35 per oil change. I'm not complaining.

Oh yeah, I once stretched the oil change on a Volvo 240 D. Interesting experience, when the bearings of the cam freeze, you snap the timing belt, etc...

All this reminds me of a conversation I had years ago with the owner of a '53 170S diesel which was written up in an MB newsletter because he was about the turn over 800,000 miles with the original 4 cyl. engine. He commuted 260 miles/day to work. I asked him what kind of oil he used & how often he changed it. His reply: RECYCLED oil but he changed it every 2,000 miles!

Someone else who was written up in The Star awhile back is about to put the same mileage on his '59 220S (orig. owner). Used nothing but 10W-30 fossil but again dropped it every 2,000 miles.

Both these cars started out when motor oil was no where advanced as it is today. Yes it does say something about regular oil & changing it hot & often.

I'm amazed at how people concentrate on saving a few bucks on oil when maintenance has so little impact on the cost of ownership.

I use Mobil 1 and change it every six months or 3,700 miles, whichever comes first.

Using OEM filters, it costs me less than $30 for an oil change. I can't even buy my wife lunch for that any more.

It's rediculous to worry about the cost of oil when a new MB engine costs more than my first house.

BTW, a true synthetic will greatly reduce the possibility of gelling/sludge. I would never use the so-called A oil. They will never give you a staight answer about things and make rediculous recommendations and claims.

Sigh!.!......

Penny wise and pound foolish.

I worked at North Texas State University back in the seventies. There was a high level professor there who absolutely insisted that there was no reason whatsoever to change oil at any interval. You would think someone with enough intelligence to earn a PHD would be able to listen to reason.

His work car was a little red Japanese car of some sort. I don't know how long it lasted, but I do remember that when I left there to work elsewhere the car was "blue smoking."

Have a great day,
Change oil hot and change oil often,

This is my last word on this topic.
Even with synthetic oil ( which I use ), do not extend the drain intervals.
Read the can or bottle, it always says: FOLLOW VEHICLE MANUFACTURERS RECOMMENDED DRAIN INTERVALS !
To me personnaly, the point of using synthetic is not to squeeze more miles out of it, I just get more peace of mind from it, than from dyno juice.;)

Synthetic oil has one major advantage. Extreme conditions! If anyone ever severely overheats an engine due to cooling system malfunction, synthetic oil may be the difference between an inexpensive repair and a catastrophe. I've seen synthetic oil save the day many times. There's no mistaking the smell of cooked oil (big bucks) when diagnosing/estimating an overheat repair.

I change mine every 5,000 miles, the mid ground between 3500 and 7500 miles as stated in most owner manuals. I drive some in town and mostly out on the highway or freeways. So far when doing an oil change the oil is still clear but a dark amber color. I get a change for about 30 bucks and most of the time they let me into the pit to give the underside a look-see. I used to do it myself (for about 20 bucks) but it's getting harder and harder to crawl under anything any more.

Interesting. As the one stated, the engine was doomed to fail regardless of oil used. I ran A HDD 5w-30 in my 2000 VW Jetta with an A bypass filter and (with oil testing) changed the oil after 53,000 miles. At 120,000 miles compression was 550-545-555-550. Bearings looked new and there was no buildup in the engine, anywhere. I changed the oil in my MB diesel every 6-10Kmi using syn. The mechanics say it runs like a gas car and that I'd need to get a V8 for comparable performance. Its very clean inside at 279Kmi. There is more than one way to change the oil in car. Some say hot and often, and others say that's a waste of time and resources when considering synthetics. Both seem to have good luck and bad luck from time to time.

On my Benzes, I change as close to 3,000 as possible. Change my boat engines twice per year, or abouyt every 25 hours. Other currently owned cars around 5000 miles. Hoping for ling life.

But....

When I was around 18, I bought a used 1970 Chevy Impala from an estate with a 350 and a turbo 400 (came like that from the factory!) It was a light green 4 door with a kinda green, kindaq tan plastic interior. I got it for a song and what the heck, it was my beater. A good beater because it only had about 34000 miles on it. Well, this car turned out to last much longer than expected. In fact, I kept it till it had over 200,000 on the odometer. I then sold it to a buddy that gutted it and ran hobby-stock at the local 1/4 mile asphalt roundy-round. I never, ever, not once, changed the oil. Ever. Added about a quart every 5000 miles or so. Never changed the filter. Granted, most of the miles were highway miles going back and forth 50 miles each way to school. My buddy did not change oil either, ran and won a few races, then plowed it into the wall. Who knows how long the engine would have gone.

When I got a different job about 45 miles from home a number of years later, I decided driving a 15 MPG GM Cutlas car was not going to cut it. I saw a brown 1986 Nisaan Sentra, 4 cyl, stick shift, no air, am/fm radio with about 40,000 miles on the clock. This car had brown outside, brown plastic seats, and a brown plastic "carpet". The owner sold it soo cheap, I figured the odo was rolled back. I just needed 40 mpg for a while till I could afford a car I could be seen in. Considered tinting the windows! Anyway, with no intent on keeping the car long, I again drove it to death. Changed a clutch once, a few brake jobs, tires, exhaust, timing belt, etc, but never changed the oil. Again, not ever, not even right after I bought it. At about 190,000 miles, the trans broke and only worked in a couple of gears. It went around 150,000 miles without an oil change, just an occasional top up with the cheapest oil I could buy. I gave it to a neighbor when I moved. Probably still running.

I bought a used Plymouth mini van because my wife said I needed one. I hate the thing. So I want it to go away. So I decided that it was luck with the Sentra and the Impala; I'll just say I change the oil in the van, but don't, and hopefully the thing will simply lock-up. Well, 6 years later, and no oil changes, the WPOS is still going strong. Pulled a camper trailer with it over the rockies with it (mostly in second gear and lotsa rpms), and a 17' drag boat back over the Rockies, again in second gear most of the way. Sucking some oil throught the valve stem seals at idle, but it did that when I bought it. Van had about 90k on her when I had to buy it, now has almost 200k. Still pull the drag boat with it.

So, tell me again why I have to change the oil so often in my current engines? I have hard experience that shows I don't have to change oil. This guy with the 27,000 miles on synthetic that had overheated bearings, maybe it was not oil related? Maybe he ran it low on oil? I've seen many many engines fail because of low oil, but have yet to see one fail from type of oil or length of oil change interval. Or because of an overheating condition in the cooling system, causing a breakdown of oil. As for severe service, cheap dino oil is what I used in my beaters. And I think I have severely overloaded the minivan. I hate that van but it sure has been good to me. A lot cheaper to run than a Benz!

Because you can drive a Mercedes engine all day long at redline .... as long you keep the oil CLEAN!!!!

Mercedes engines will not tolerate running out of oil or running dirty oil. The old addage pay me now or pay me later comes to mind.

I agree 100% that engine oil must be topped up and clean. I was taught that in High School shop and stands almost any logical test that can be applied.
But I have never received an explanation why my three beaters that should have stopped running at some point in time did not! If the theory that proper, quality, clean and full oil makes an engine run a long long time, then should improper, alegedly poor quality, certainly dirty, but always full oil result in a grenaded engine? The theory is wrong; I proved it wrong.
A lot of people here claim one must use synthetic and one must change it often. Often there are arguments as to which brand is the only brand to use. My actual experience has disproved all those. And let me tell you, that 3.0 litre Chrysler motor was at redline while pulling the trailers. For many, many miles. I did have to put the heater on for a while because I saw the temp gage climbing.
And I would say that there are not major differences in crankshaft loadings and oil shear loadings in most engines regardless of RPM/howrsepower/torque ratings. Mercedes, Nissan, Plymouth, Chevy, Mercruiser, Crusader, Caterpillar, Cummins, Mann, MTU, even high speed deiesels like Yanmar. The same oil is used in a 3500 HP 16 cylinder Mann diesel as in a 90 hp 4/5 cylinder diesel engine made by Benz or VW or any other.

Having been in the lube oil business for over 30 thirty years, i cant help myself to enter into this topic,,,,,27,000 miles. well enought has been said about such a task...but to get back to reality, many a factor accumulate to the lack of req. lubri. in an engine oil.....i wont bore you with it all, the only real answer to lenght of time b-4 need changing is done with reg. oil anayl. to determine additive and unwanted devils claiming residence in the oil pan,,,,i also dont mean to be unfair to our friendly well meaning mechanic, but most do not recognize a bearing failure due to ozidation, lack of oil, worn out oil (additive package used up), and my favorite........oil break down???????? ,,i dont know just what that really refers to, therefore change oil on a reg. basis no matter what brand or color using, or have oil anayl. done on a regular basis..jack

waybomb - you are an amazingly lucky person, I think.

I inherited my dad's 1979 Volvo 240D when I was a kid.

I let the oil go for 7k miles.

Seized the cam (as I mentioned earlier). The techies at Marten's Volvo of Washington said: "Yup, skipped the oil change, didn't you? Also snapped the timing belt when it froze, didn't it?"

Fortunately, the head could be remachined.

Later I was told that these Vovlo engines are built to last almost forever, PROVIDED that you do that Castrol thing religously and regularily...

Proved "wrong" on American and Japanese motors. I don't think you'd have similar results with Euro engines.

I think the oil debate is right under Religion and Politics! I have seen verbal throw downs on other sites about what oil to use and when to change. This is how I see it on two of the topics in this thread; Cars that run a long time with never changing the oil depend on a few factors, the way they are driven and the quality and care of their build. I had about 13 cars between age 16 and 25, the one that stands out was a Pontiac 6000le with a 2.8 multiport. I beat the living hell out of that car daily racing my friends who all had Audis and VW’s. I sold that car with 220Kmiles on it! I did change the oil every three K but here is the part about the care taken when it was built, All of the other American made cars I had which I took better care of and changed the oil every 3k did not last near as long. My other thought on this idea of no oil changes is this, Oil is the blood of the car and gas is the food! What happens when your blood is toxic? Same idea for a car! Also I think we can consider the engine in the 560 a high performance engine for those year ranges. In a high performance engine the conditions are very demanding! At the end of the day it is all opinion. My 87 560sel gets Mobil 1 10w-40 high mileage oil in the summer and Shell Rotella T6 5w40 in the winter. Now to start a real fight on this topic,,,, I also use the Shell Rotella T6 in my motorcycle!!!!!! I can see the pitchforks and torches coming already!

Lets not forget about those who think Transmission fluid is "filled for life".

This is hilarious!! :bowrofl:
Has to be a troll. No sane person would listen to a word he says.

Must be a real pos camper and drag boat that you would risk towing it 5000 miles into the mountains with a van thats such a pos you wont even change oil.

This guy I knew was talking about two BMW diesels and a Mercedes diesel hed owned, how much a pos they were that they had valve trouble at less than 100K. Then I learned he was a 25K oil change Mobil1 nut.

I dont want to call Bravo Sierra on your claim, but its sounding like a whopper.

Dudes you do realize that until our newbie Wikkedpissa resurrected this thread the last post was made in March 2003? Nine years and ten months must be a record for longest undead thread.

I've changed the oil in my 124 about thirty times since this thread was started. :D

This was an old thread years before I bought my car!!!

Mine gets 20w-50w every 3000 miles, and a filter, and mine is one of the goofy ones with the filter cartridge.

...and I can't believe I started this thread. Man, I've been here a looooong time.

even A's best oil isnt rated for more than 25k in non-severe service.....he probably had one of the cheaper formulas for not-so-extended drain interval, and thought "it doesnt matter" <------ very famous quote, u here this alot while discussing the topic of synthetic lubrication .... :eek:

here's one that mike (specialdelivery) and i always laugh about, caus this guy we know recommends this mystery crap.....lol......(new york accent) "If you put IXL in your........you dont even need motor oil.......DOESNT MATTER !" LMFAO "If your "A" stuff is so good, then why cant u drain it all out and drive to Sarasota.......DOESNT MATTER !" LOL LMFAO :D

EDIT: oh wow, i didnt even notice how old the thread was.......oh well the facts still stand....

(disclaimer) (I have used "A's" diesel oil in my 2 diesels, for over 200k miles combined, over 11 years, driving many many deliveries......i do every 15k on the diesel oil.....filter every 5, its awesome... :)

old engines require ZDDP additive .Do the newer oils have thator just the diesel oils?
Ad

Yeah, you were a young man when this thread started! :D

just diesel oil has zinc,calcium,phosporus, and other additives.I use it in my gas engines also.

You're in good company. If you noticed, I was the second poster. I too am still on this site.

I read your original post last week, as well as the entire first page. While these oil-related stories in some cases have taken on a life of their own via the Internet, the common thread with all these oil related failure stories is that they are all hearsay. Even if pictures are included, there's no evidence that what is being claimed as the reason(s) why any engine failed, is actually why they failed. When it comes right down to it, there is no preponderance of proof present to believe any of them. One way or the other.