Fault code 13 - Lambda control at limit
 

Hello!

I had CE light come on in my 95 e320. Checked the code and it gave me code #3. So I proceeded to check HFM code and it came out to #13. From the chart, it indicates lambda control operating at limit.

Does anyone have exprience with this code? Do you know what it means? any suggestion will be appreciated.

Thanks
Richard

If you have the original O2 sensor in that car ( 1995 ), it may be time for a new one.;)

Hi Manny,

Thanks for the suggestion. If O2 sensor is bad, wouldn't it trip other codes as well? For example Code 2 comes to mind. Car only has 60K miles.

Another question, does Chrysler 4 wire O2 sensor work ok in this car?

Thanks

Most O2 sensors die a slow death. Think of it as a battery wearing out, i.e. voltage goes lower & lower.
As this begins to happen, the ECU will interpret this as having to add more fuel.
Once you reach the adaption limits, a CEL will come on.
I don't see why any 4-wire O2 should not work. Just match the wires correctly ( 1 signal wire, 1 power wire for the heater element, and 2 ground wires ).
You could also backprobe the signal wire & see what the voltage output is & how " lively " the sensor is.
These are generic suggestions applying to O2 sensors in principal. ;)

Thanks Manny,

I'll try replacing the oxygen sensor since they are cheap.

Richard

When at Limit , the system can not adjust any further for correction..
This is usually caused by a vac leak allowing too much air or a bad pressure regulator ..
Look for vac leaks and test fuel pressure reg....

Hi Arthur,

Thanks for your comments. When you say vac leaks, where would it be? Also, where's the fuel pressure regulator located? I'm just an amatuer, so any help will be greatly apprecaited.

Thanks
Richard

When the system can not correct due to it being at limit , it
is best diagnosed with diagnostic equipment ..
However, a DIYer look around of all vac hoses for breaks/disconnects is where you can start...the common 104 places are the hoses running in front of the engine to the switch-over-valves and AIR pump.
Best to go to Search feature to find these locations..
Same for the fuel pressure regulator... there are several threads on that..
It also has a vac hose . If you disconnect the hose and see dripping gas..it is faulty.
Again, these are just simple possibilities that you can look for , but after that, the proper Data/Tech diagnosis is recommended
if you do not have Meters/exper. etc....

Thanks Arthur.

I will take a look for missing vacuum lines.

Do you think a slowly dying O2 sensor could be the problem as well?

Thanks for all the help. I'll keep you posted.

If the ECU is reaching its limit stops, then that indicates that
the sensors involved in lean/rich mix are sending signals , but the mix is so far off that the mapping can't compensate.... so I doubt
an 02 sensor prob...

With a vac leak, there is just too much air for the system to correct to... and with a bad regulator, [ w/high pressue reading], there would be too much fuel to correct to..
That's why injector duration times and fuel pressure, along with live stream data , are important to proper diagnosis..
Mixture is not just controlled by the 02 sensor...that is the final Tweak...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Arthur Dalton
[B]If the ECU is reaching its limit stops, then that indicates that
the sensors involved in lean/rich mix are sending signals , but the mix is so far off that the mapping can't compensate.... so I doubt
an 02 sensor prob...



And if your O2 signal is getting weak, and the cross-counts drop, you will also likely reach your adaption limits.
I am not trying to sell you an O2 sensor but, keep in mind, they are considered a part of a major tune-up.
Keep us informed what you find.;)

Which you would then expect an 02 sens code ....as the DM counts cross counts as well as voltage variable..

Just FYI, My O2 sensor needed replacement on my 95E320 early this year at 125kmiles. I got the fault code on the O2 heater (can't remember which one that is - 5?).

<<can't remember which one that is - 5?)
>>

Code 12

I remember your problem w/heater...

Bosch rates their O2 . . .
 

sensor for 60K miles, so it may be its time! They only cost about $85 at discount. As Manny says, it should be considered during a major tuneup. Even if it's not bad (open/short or heater blown), it deteriotes with time and rich/lean response becomes slow (time wise).

Also, DTC 13 says ". . . rich or lean limits" so you need to measure Lamba with an AST Retreiver via its "live data" feature. Maybe you can 'borrow' one??

An update
 

Hello all,

I was looking through the engine bay for vacuum leaks and noticed that a plug (I think it is the intake air temp sensor) is loose. It's a plug that is attached to cross-over pipe close to the intake runners.

Arthur and everyone, could this have been the cause of my Code 13? It was loose enough that some air could have gotten into the intake.

I reset the code, so we'll see if it comes back.

Thanks for all the help,
Richard

Any air leaks between the Air Mass sensor and the engine
will cause engine management codes.
Another common place on 104s is to check the clamp on the cross pipe where it hooks to the intake.
This clamp requires a Long shaft screwdriver and is often overlooked.

It's back.
 

Yup. The CE light came back on. I guess I'll have to check the fuel pressure next to see where the problem is coming from!

Ok.

I checked the fuel pressure. It's dead on at 3.8bar. I don't see any leaks either. Arthur, what do you think? I added a fuel injector cleaner just to make sure that they are not clogged.

O2 sensor next?

Thanks
Richard

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 95e320
[B]Ok.



O2 sensor next?

Why not ?

I told you at the beginning, given the age of your car, it wouldn't be a complete waste of time or money. ;)

HI Manny,

Yeah, I will give it a try this weekend. BTW, does anyone know the Bosch number for the O2 sensor in this car? (95 e320) I think I can just splice the connector.

Richard

[QUOTE]Originally posted by manny
[B]

95e320

Bosch part # is: 13314

Should be no need to splice anything, as it comes with the OEM connector.

Btw. www.boschusa.com ;)

Because your car is Electronic FI, there is an easy O2 test that a DIY can do W/a DVM..

Unplug the sens and hook up meter to sig wire from sens. Warm engine and let run...
Watching meter, unplug the vac line to the fuel regulator. [I hold my finger over the line to stop any vac leak while I do this part]
This should immediately [ less than 300 m/sec] show a rich reading of a min of .9 volts. You can put the vac line off/on several times and watch the O2 sens output change...
This vac line to the reg is what keeps the fuel pressure in check...by disconnecting it, the fuel pressure increases causing the rich condition...
Now for the lean [ low voltage ] O2 test...
Same deal, but this time you disconnect a vac line [ on the 104,
the line to the SOVs is a good one] , Now, the O2 should drop to less than .2 volts in less than 300 m/s. Do this several times and you will see the sens speed/reading..
A scope is much better as you can chart the process and get exact cross counts/speeds/volts, but a DMV and a little experience
and one can tell a bad sensor without too much trouble..
In other words , you are manually Causing Rich/Lean conditions
and watching the o2 sensors response to those conditions.
Because you have unplugged the sensor from the system, the ECU has no control over your manual conditions, so this is a direct O2 sensor test ... EFI cars make this test possible as they are designed to run at certain fuel pressures..., whereas on others you have to ad fuel/propane to do the enrichment part
of the test.... a little more work...but same idea..
I personally never change an O2 sensor until I test that
sensor/ circuit and I never change one just because a CE lamp comes on....

95E320, were you able to solve the Code 13 problem?