Noise on M119 engine
 

There is a noise that sounds like a deep tap in the engine when I start the car in the morning or when cold, it lasts only for seconds. I think that it might be that the oil settles and takes time to go through the engine, does this happen to anyone with a M119 engine?

DO a search under "M119 oil tubes" and see what the symptoms are. This is a known weak area in the oil system of that engine and you'll not want to let it go unattended if that is the problem.

Re: Noise on M119 engine
 

Not common. Can you tell where the the sound is coming from?

At the auto parts store, you might find a stethescope looking device with a metal rod in place of the flat metal part in the Doctors office. You touch the rod to surfaces you want to listen to, like the water pump, heads, lower block for instance. It can narrow down the search and give you clues as to the true location the sound is coming from, well worth the small cost.

I had a tapping noise also and it was indeed the oil tubes that needed to be replaced. It was very easy to do. If I am not mistaken though I think your tubes in that year M119 are metal which don't have the same problem of the end cap falling out. Do a search.

Here is JimF's site info on the Oil Tube issue:

http://pages.prodigy.net/jforgione/MB_lifter.html

Also, here is the TSB on this issue.

Think I'll check that over the weekend. The noise also sounds like something is bouncing around, like metal bouncing in a metal container. When I changed the oil and started it up right after it made the sound the longest, for about 8 seconds. Would a leak in those tubes lend itself to that situation? I also have good oil pressure.

Personally, I don't think it's . . .
 

an open oil tube but . . . .

Normally, the 'tick-tick' occurs AFTER the car has been started for a few minutes, not at first start. But then again. . .

So the sound does not go away and it gets worse as the car gets hotter probably because the oil 'thins' out abit.

It easy to check: once the valve cover is off, you can visually inspect in just a few minutes. And if one is bad, it's easy to change.

Re oil pressure: you SHOULD notice a drop in oil pressure if one or more tubes is open. If your oil pressure is still high (say around 2 bar when hot), it probably is not a open tube.

But it COULD be a weak lifter that can't hold oil overnight and when started, it takes a few seconds to 'pump-up'. This is the most likely scenario based on what you wrote. These are a pain to replace because you first have to find the bad one (or ones). Then replacing it is not the best job in the world: remove camshaft, chain, etc.

BTW, you should be able to locate the side it's on pretty easily, if not, then more info that it's not a lifter.

I did a search on the M119 engine and came up with a possible cause, the timing chain tensioner. I have no clue if it has been replaced or not and with over 140,000 miles on my car this might be the problem.

Take Jims advice the a bad oil tube would cause a ticking all the time, not just on startup. Mine does the "ticking" occasionally after that car has sat a couple of weeks, my mechanic couldn't find anything wrong. If your timing chain hasn't been replaced it is about 40K miles overdue, get that checked ASAP.

Jim,

What's this about a weak lifter? This never came up in previous posts, what part of the lifter goes bad? Can you describe or post a picture? One of these days we need to meet up, I need to buy one of your cool harnesses and would love to talk cars with you.

Placo, it would be my. . .
 

pleasure. If you're in SD, left me know. We can get together.

Re a 'weak' lifter: the picture in my web page under menu #19 is one of those critters. It can be pushed by hand (finger) and it starts to collapse. As my tech tells me, it's not supposed to do that.

Trying to find a 'bad' one on a M119 engine is difficult at best. I've seen where a feeler gauge is used to push under the lifter/cam surface. If it goes 'easily', it's a candidate.

Re the chain tensioner: I can't see where that would cause a problem just at startup. If it's loose (stretched), it's loose all the time.

119 Engine Noise
 

Had a strange one once, this is what I found.

There is a check valve located in the oil filter housing that may be a cause to your engine noise during startup. If you run the engine, such as driving to work, park then return to the vehicle in a short amount of time (2-3 hours) to leave and the engine has a unusual noise for a few moments, suspect this valve.

The chain tensioner tends to loose oil pressure because it bleeds past this vavle back to the pan.

Keep us posted

I believe M119 engines on 1992 400Es have metal tubes which don't have the problem.

I have opened valve covers on my 92 400E when I was attempting to replace timing chain, my oil tubes are all metal.

Either way guess I will have to take the valve covers off so we'll see. Awesome help!:)

119 ticking
 

have seen several 119 engines where the
lower portion of the inboard head rails had
broken off and rattlled around. one even went
so far as to have the chain cut into the lower
rail pin and cause an oil leak.

You say Deep Tap, is this in the upper half of the engine of the lower half?

Also, how long have you owner the car and what are the oil change records like?

Your problem may be related to the Oil Check Valve located by the Oil Filter Housing, or bottom passengers side of the engine.

Does the noise stay constant, or is it just after startup?

You say Deep Tap, is this in the upper half of the engine of the lower half?

Also, how long have you owner the car and what are the oil change records like?

It only happens for seconds, when the engine is cold and then goes away. That is why I think it has to do with the oil settling. I have not been able to tell exactly where it comes from.

Ross,

When you make reference to the "oil check valve" is the same part as a Oil Relief Valve in Filter Housing? I also have a similar problem with my 92 400se making a taping noise for a short time upon cold starups. The noise sounds like it's coming from the oil filter housing/distributor cap area (passenger side) of the engine. I'm going to get a Stethoscope from the auto store this weekend and see if I can better isolate the "taping noise" area.

Russell

Russell,

I'm sorry. I used a incorrect description for the part.

zeronero,

Click here for a detail thead that may very well fix the noise. The part is roughly $60. :)

The 400E vs. 500E M119.xxx engine is mostly the same except for Compression Ratio and piston / bore size. All the 500E engine info found on this forum can be also be applied to the 400E engine.

That seems to be the problem, next time I change the oil I'll replace that as well.

That thread that you listed is 3 pages long. Can someone cut paste the relevant part and part# on this thread?

Thanks!

This is the first thing to check the

You will have to read the whole thing to get the picture

wjm, on your shift knob did you cut the post and glue it or were you lucky enough to find a wood and leather one with the post attached?

Regarding shift knob.... I bought the knob and the shift post... they came separate. It took some time, but I was able to get the old one out completely.

Parts List
 

119-184-02-80 Gasket (housing to block)

119-184-01-30 Valve Seat kit

Thanks

Another item to check is the air injection pump, which runs for about 3 minutes at startup. I had a persistent ticking as well and when my mechanic disconnected the pump the ticking went away!

Left it disconnected (causes no running problems but may violate air quality laws - check local statutes) but after a few weeks the check engine light went on cause it was registering as a fault. Reconnected the pump and put up with the noise for the first few minutes every morning.

After about a year the ticking noise went away....go figure?

Dean,

www.europarts-sd.com carries a rebuilt air injection pump for $350 if you ever decide the ticking is getting annoying. They also mentioned that the check valve which prevents exhaust from getting into the air injection pump is the main cause for the pump failure. Cost for the valve was $35.00ea.

Luckly my pump works fine. It does make a small amount of noise when on but none at all when it turns off.