Porsches were never meant to be driven every day; poor reliability is not as great a problem with a toy. Mercedes are daily transportation, and as such need to be reliable. At times they disappoint.

Toyotas and Hondas are more reliable than a Mercedes, but are they as durable? You maintain and repair a Benz, and it should last well over 200,000 miles. At 200K a Toyota or even a Lexus is worn out. And a Benz just looks better!

Just don't believe MB's story about "lifetime" transmission fluid on the newer models. I replaced mine at 120K and the shifting is back to normal.

It also depends on how any car was taken care of in its past life, I don't care what make it is if you buy a beat 10+ year old car it will have issues. Now comparing a Toyota to a MB isn't really fair because they are targeted a different markets and seem to be much simpler. Lexus vs MB is more fair and Lexus seems to bet MB to a point. But I see a lot of beat LS400's on used car lots just waiting to become a money pit. The 1991 LS400's are not worth much now because no one wants to fix them, even the clean high mileage ones are not worth much. Put a 200k 560SEL along side a LS400 of the same year and mileage. The 560 if taken care of will have many years and miles of service left. The LS on the other hand is at the end of the road. One $3k repair and it's junked. Don't the starter or alts cost a lot to replace on those?

I own a '04 Honda Civic, '03 BMW 535i, '96 Camry and a '92 190e for my daily commute

I love my Merc ... though it costs me an average of $150 repair for the last 24 months, it's truly a load of crap for a car that's barely over 10 yrs old when supposedly "engineered like no other crap" and something alwyas breaks

basically it requires zillions of preventive maintenance to stay out of trouble

as I said, I love it still .... but I would not buy another Merc in my life, new or otherwise ... it's a ***** of a car as most owners' survey would testify

Of course, now Mercedes depreciation is becoming, er, Ford-like, with all the quality issues they're having. No one believes they'll last that long anymore, so they're dumping them after the warranties run out, just like American cars. That kills depreciation.

Lexus and Infiniti (and Toyota), on the other hand, have some of the lowest depreciation rates around now. Wonder why?

I've owned Land Cruisers for a long time. Granted, a Land Cruiser is not a Corolla, but they all use similar assembly methods and sub-contractors. In fact, the Araco plant, where Cruisers are still hand-built, is considered ancient when compared to some of the fully robotic plants like Tahara (but both plants are winners of JD Powers quality awards).

When I checked the engineering spec on the 1FZ-FE engine in our `94 Cruiser, it was rated at 300,000km between engine rebuilds (which basically consisted of re-shimming the valves) and it was rated at a life of three such re-builds. Thats 1.2 million kilometers! And the tranny was off their Coaster bus, meaning it was hugely overbuilt. Similarly, this is why the last Supras are still worth so much money. Their trannies are so strong that they can take all the crap the ricers dish out (nitrous, etc.) without any problems. I think I can safely say, based on experience, that Toyotas (and by extension, Lexii) have always been built tough, but they have retained that toughness over time, while Mercedes has not. That's why I'll never own a Mercedes built in this century. :(

My $0.02,

SinJung aVERAGE MAINTENANCE $150
 

$150 For The Last Two Years ?

$ 30 Cents A Day ?

Or $150 A Day ..thats $109,000

How reliable is your Bimmer? BMWs appeal to me far more than Lexuses (except for the orange instrument lights), but I've heard their reliability is on par with Mercedes.

sdanville,

I think shinjung meant $150 PER month for last 24 months.

P E H

thanks, Haiges, it's $150/month

ok ok..... i bet the previous owner never loved it as an MB and only loved being seen in one :D (this is the reason for most Singaporeans who own one here)

Just to give you guys an idea, it would cost around US$75,000 at today's exchange rate to buy a 1.8L 190E in those days, yup it's sick :eek:

Again, I love this 190E of mine, it gives me one hell of a satisfaction each time I drive it and many of its features were years ahead of any Banzai. For a '92 car which was supposedly built as a basic car in Germany, its noise suppression level is superb, has rock-solid chassis, offers solid handling and an evergreen design.

I will keep it as long as the tranny does not break down .... ;)

cheers!

Owned a MB is prestige. BUT to maintain them you gotta spend and spend and always keep guessing. For instance you have a starting problem when the car is warm. I meant to say you run the car for say 30 minutes and stop. You then start the cat again after say 15 minutes. You need to crank and crank the engine and when it get started its like running on a three cylinder engine. From here you keep guessing.

I wounder MB can produce such a car BUT could MB produce good I meant GOOD mechanics. If the answer is yes then can someone pin point the above problem.

I've really enjoyed reading this thread. As far as reliability and value of Mercedes goes.... it's much better than the 61 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider and 59 MG I have owned. The Jeep Grand wagoneer could drive up ski slopes, but nothing electrical worked and the sagging headliner kept the sun out of my eyes. My dog loves running about with me in the 83 300TD wagon. It's silver and rustfree and needs nothing but thoughtful maintenance. I don;t mind spending the money on this car. It's built like a tank and an economical diesel. I suspect that headaches and heartaches are avoided by searching hard for the right MB diesel that has had the proper open checkbook maintenance. Good luck finding it!!! :)

Well, I am seriously considering the purchase of a 1985 Mercedes 500SEL 4dr sedan, so I hope not. At least with the 500SEL. :)

See my sig.

Bought the Lexus a couple of weeks ago. Sold the 420SEL just last week.



I would have bought a E420 but ya'll scared me off it in a hurry. Too many hassles...

Well I too became tired of working on my 300E 3.2 every weekend. Even though it was a one owner car maintained by MB on a regular basis it seemed every time I fix one thing another would pop up. Last week I sold my Benz and bought a 02 Lincoln LS V8 and am ery impressed with the car so far. I would like to add this group was very helpful to me keeping my Benz running and very much appreciate everyones help but now maybe I can have my weekends back to do other things.

Kind regards,
Gary Levy

Reality Check!
 

Okay, say after me "I bought an expensive European luxury car" (pause for you to repeat)....now say after me "An expensive car is expensive to maintain" (pause for you to repeat)...okay now say "When cars have complex engineering they are difficult and expensive to repair and maintain"


Imagine this....if you buy a can of soft drink (no names) and you put it in the refrigerator for a year it probably will be okay to drink and will taste like it's suppose to taste. If you put a bottle of Moet et Chandon in the same fridge and leave it for a year you have a 50-50 chance it will be flat and taste bad. Does that mean the Moet is a bad beverage? No it just requires more effort to remain at a certain level of taste. Don't get me wrong, a Toyota Carolla is an extremely dependable car, but I wouldn't want to drive form Kentucky to Chicago and back in one! :D

AGREED!

If you can't afford it, sell your MB and get a Toyota.

Well thank you I am glad someone has said that! You buy a $50k car for $10k used and expect it to cost the same to keep going as a $10k Toyota? :rolleyes:

A MB will cost much more to keep going then a cheaper car, they are complex, and use expensive non common parts.

Thats why I don't see why people complain about the S600's. They cost over $130K+ new. People who buy those kinds of cars new don't lose sleep over dropping $10k on a repair. If you buy a $100k+ car even if you bought it for $20k 9 years down the road, you are still buying something that was over $100k new. So it will eat parts like a $100k car.

isn't the idea behind a 130K dollar car : spend up front so you wont have to worry about breakdown costs later on ? :furious2:

That is what you would think isn't it? :rolleyes:

I guess most people that pay $100K+ for a car- paying $10K for a part is nothing- its like pocket change.

Lexus parts are just as high. Parts for my LS400 was much higher than I expected, however, I never had to buy anything for it, but I was researching parts prices, incase I ever needed them. $200+ for an alternator, $200+ for a starter (plus an additional $1000 in labor, because the manifolds has to be removed), $1000 each for air struts (on cars so equipped), $1000+ for a new guage cluster (instrument cluster lighting units known for going out after 10-15 years). My car was still OK in this area. The guages are nice looking though, especially for that era- no other cars had instrument lighting like that in the late 80s/early 90s- here is the cluster on my 90' LS400.

Other than that- I think Mercedes is similar to Lexus as far as reliability- they do not break down that often, but when they do, you have to pay for it!
That is the joy of owning an expensive Japanese/European luxury car.

[QUOTE=DaimlerChrysler]Okay, say after me "I bought an expensive European luxury car" (pause for you to repeat)....now say after me "An expensive car is expensive to maintain" (pause for you to repeat)...okay now say "When cars have complex engineering they are difficult and expensive to repair and maintain"


Imagine this....if you buy a can of soft drink (no names) and you put it in the refrigerator for a year it probably will be okay to drink and will taste like it's suppose to taste. If you put a bottle of Moet et Chandon in the same fridge and leave it for a year you have a 50-50 chance it will be flat and taste bad. Does that mean the Moet is a bad beverage? No it just requires more effort to remain at a certain level of taste. Don't get me wrong, a Toyota Carolla is an extremely dependable car, but I wouldn't want to drive form Kentucky to Chicago and back in one! :D[/QUOTE


Does that same rationale apply to the LS430/400?....or does the car have to be European and the japanese high end cars don't count?..the LS430 is not complicated enough?

if the same rationale applies I think you need to take a close look at the statistics...just because a car is complicated doesn't mean it has to be unrealiable



Warren
1992 300SD(sold)
2000 BMW 740i with full sports package and BMW CPO warranty

Well, not necessarily.....it's always easier to take technology that's already been developed and then improve on it. Mercedes-Benz has had the keyless go credit card type system for 4 or 5 years. Lexus brought it out last year. Same with adaptive cruise control...and by the way, I used to drive Bimmers.....good thing you have a warranty! :rolleyes:

What about technology that is not new that fails. I would agree with you that Mercedes is on the forefront of technology...but I think its uncanny how the Japanese can take their ideas,and make the system more reliable...and then the Benz system still falters...ie..on the 220 car....the heated and cool seats,airmatic suspension etc..etc...car has been out for years and the dealer here in town still gets to fix those items all the time

As for BMW warranty...yes I am glad I have it..it has paid about $1000 in the first year...when I had the last Benz(1992 140) it paid about $7000 in the first year I owned the car..$5100 was just an AC job(evap core,climate control push button unit),the rest was for closing assist pump and window regulators etc...all very usual repairs for the car according to my MB dealer
and actually that warranty paid about $20,000 on that after all was said and done...and yes I was very glad I had a warranty on the Mercedes


Warren
1992 300SD(sold)
2000 BMW 740i w/full sports package and BMW CPO warranty

To #170, 1976 300D
 

You say you've had good service with your '76 300D. Well you are the happy owner of the last of the "squareline" cars designed by Rudolph Ulenhaut. Those are the bullet proof cars that "made" MB's reputation as dependable. They were ahead of their time (in those days) with modern independent suspensions (trailing arm), all wheel disc brakes, and safety designed into the entire vehicle. Oh, and they drove like crazy because he could drive as well as the factory race drivers.

I had a '72 squareline that I loved (yup, had problems- died for several reasons), but when you "understood" it, i.e. knew the techie tricks, you could get it to run forever.

But after 1989, Katie Bar the Door...all I have heard about is problems.

So as I have posted, after 4 MB's, I have switched to the "big" Buick's (5 now). Current 2000 Parke Ave Ultra with blower, is certainly more reliable than any Benz I had and drives almost as nice, until 9/10's- lousy GM shocks. Very fast (0-60 7.4) , but exellent economy (24.5 all time, 27.5 commute, 29.1 on one trip) but very good handling and brakes!

Just my opinion and limited to the PA ultra's.

No not at all, you are getting the best of everything. That is the point with a $100k+ car. Maintaince costs never factor in.

Is the Enzo a bad car because a brake job costs over $20k?

Hello,
I started my dad's 1953 170DS last week after it sat for 8 years.
It needed a bit of preparation, but a little bit of cranking had it firing in under ten seconds. I think it cleared all the bugs for about two blocks and my neighbor threatened to call the DOE :huepfenic
Try that with a Lexus ;)
Have a good weekend

I think it's just "smart" mechanics where they built these cars to keep breaking so the company could continue making money years after they were sold ! :D

I've been wondering the same thing. I bought my first Mercedes (1988 560SL). It had been sitting for a year and I expected a few things, but it has been ridiculous. I get one thing fixed & another goes. My Harley & Dodge are much more dependable.

A Harley, A Mercedes and a Dodge ?
 

Buddy, you should read Consumer Reports or JD Powers and Cycle World.


I guess If you own all three , then one is usually Running.

All MB's from late 80's onwards are unreliable when comapred to Japanes makes like Toyota/Lexus but recently GM/Ford and Chrysler have surpased MB and BMW in reliability.

But there is an even bigger problem, MB dealersips. I have dealt with 3 different dealership and all of them required multiple trips to address issues which should have been fixed the first time. Tried an independent repair shop and it was not matter.

One can trobleshoot a problem quicker with the help of this website, than the certified techs in the MB service departments, who at times are clueless, and the dealerships still charge $70-95/hr, although they never charge you for the 2nd or 3rd attempt at the same problem!

Di it yourself and $ave thanks to this site.
 

Zarfar-

I am in 80% agreement. Remeber that Gilly has made major contributions at this site and he is a Mercedes Wrench.

After I bought my 99 ML320 I paid for a $80 scan to read the codes as I had an idiot light on and an engine stumble.

It has been a couple years but I recall them saying I needed a $275 EGR valve and new shocks cause one squeeked $1700.

Because of this site, i learned to just clean the EGR tube $-0- total fix, and I bought a bilstein shock $160+- and fixed the squeek.

This site has saved me $Thousands$ .

I've owned my Harley since 1983 when I bought it used......Its has only let me down twice since then............and one of those times it was my fault to begin with.

Congrats
 

A pre Evolution V with your good History is remarkable.

Steve
Razz 50
NX125
FT500
CB750F
V65
ST1100

and several cages.

What do you pay the money for if there are many other more reliable choices? We bought our first Mercedes ever, a 1995 E320 wagon, with only 30k miles on it and paid quite a bit, thinking a low mileage Mercedes would last forever. Now its true they say the m104 engine it has can run to 400,000 miles, but what about the fact that the window regulator broke, the headgasket caused a major oil leak, it goes through a taillight or brakelight every week, the OEM brake pads last 30,000 miles, the stereo has poor sound, the transmission isn't smooth despite the MB tech saying "this is just how they are..."? The expensive coolant, the jumpy speedometer, the door lock in the drivers door breaking, the incredible tire wear? Well, we still like it and plan on keeping it forever. It runs perfect, has 220 horsepower and still turns in 27mpg. It rides like a dream, no squeaks and rattles, and we know it is extremely safe. It holds its value fairly well. It also has excellent styling.
There is always something that keeps us buying European cars. We have two Range Rovers. The second one, a P38, has more problems then probably any other car we have ever owned. The minute you fix something, a new problem crops up. But when you drive it, just like the Mercedes, you feel like your in some special, majestic vehicle, with heritage and quality behind it. Sorry, but I could never stomach a Buick even if the Benz's engine blows tonight.

I understand....

I would rather push my Mercedes than ride in a Honda.

Sad, but true.

I would say this. All parts and repairs on MB cars are overprices along with other luxury cars out there. Reliability of MB and other luxury car is a little better than Ford or Oldsmobile. Lets take oxyden sensor for example... there is oxyden sensor for Ford Mustang as we all know. It costs cheaper than MB sensor. Only difference is wire plug I beleive. So explain me why same material and manufacturing process used in making Ford and MB O2 sensor but MB sensor cost more than Ford? Its the same sensor but it is not going to perform better if you will order same sensor but it will have different plug on it. So the point is that all cars are the same. You might get lucky and get the car that will not give you any problems for 400k ml but you can also get car with 20k ml that will fall apart. But since there is an image that MB is better than other cars people wil still buy MB. Some people will buy MB because they think it will be more reliable than other cars, some wil buy it because it is more prestige than others. Some people will but it because they just like it, the way it looks,performs,handles and other things that person will like. So there is no car that will have no problems so is MB. And people drive hondas and fords dont care that something knoks and ratles here and there but if they will hear knocks and rattles in their MB they will do anything to fix it. I am one of them. I have alot of problems in my Olds minivan but I dont care but if it comes to my MB I fix it right away. So those reliability reports about fords and toyotas are nothing because you dont care about little things that break on it because its cheap in all ways (parts and repair) but MB isnt. I think i talk too much so keep posting

I have found MB parts tend to cost about the same as Toyota parts. The American makes have everyone beat.

It might be worth looking at the voltage while the car is running. Anything more than 14 or so volts will shorten bulb life exponentially, as well as strain other systems.

On this subject, has anyone ever noticed that Volvos, which have about 32 taillights, usually have only one that actually works?

Here is a website about recalls..
 

My voltage at idle is 13.2, and around 13.6 at 3,000 RPMS. Alt is fine. The problem lies in the fact that bulbs are now manufactured in China. The filaments are actually thinner, as I compared. I ordered OSRAM bulbs from MB and these have lasted longer. Of course, the poor rear wagon light design doesn't help!

Volvos do have alot of lights and few working. My (now sold) 1996 Volvo 960 wagon went through taillights all the time, just like the Benz. My neighbor's new S80 goes through lights. And my old 1982 Volvo 240 has lots of lights in the back, and they all glow at different brightnesses, or don't work at all!
My Ford Explorer, being "Limited" trim, the most expensive Explorer, includes a nice little message center which does only a few things, one of them being general bulb-out warnings. So when one of the headlights went out, and the driving lights went out, (they were useless anyway) I bought a new headlamp bulb thinking the driving lights would come back with the new headlights. Turns out it was the "bulb monitor" computer, buried in the center console, not the lights themselves.

Remarkably, the British-made Range Rovers haven't had one bulb failure yet!

Yeah, but parts for domestic cars are all made in China.

I pretty much agree with the above post--you'll find if you take your domestic car apart (as long as its not too old) a hodgepodge of parts from countries where manufacturing is cheapest--mexico, china, korea, etc.

I was actually shocked when my door lock actuator in the 95 Rover messed up, to take it out and find it made in China! I've taken tons of things apart on that truck and everything is made in the UK, but not that actuator! For comparison, I looked at the one in my '92 Range Rover, this one was made in the UK and has 190k miles on it, still original and still fine.

What they say about Chinese parts being just as good for a lot less just ins't true for the most part. It's not that the chinese can't physically make them as good, its the corporations that can get away with lesser quality standards, and of course a country like china doesn't understand how to make things which are originally designed in a foreign country with a completely different philosophy on how to do things.

I'm contemplating buying another car and honestly a bit frightened to even think of another benz given the number of problems the new owners are pointed out by the forum members here alone.
spring breaking issues on the w210 is just one of the many that is quite scary.

People worry to much. I would buy a W210 in a heart beat. Fine cars, simple to work on you can't go wrong.

Every make has horrer stories. Do a search on "Toyota sludge". Most people on Toyota forums seem to bash newer Camry's for being junk. Honda's eat trans. So do Fords. Every GM engine has its problems, Northstar anyone? 3.1L V6 Leaking manifold gaskets?

Boy, that's certainly the opposite of what probably 10 of my friends who are Benz mechanics and service managers tell me.....

They pine for the true simplicity of the W124, W123 and W126es...

Cheers,
Gerry

mercedes vs honda..well....i love my 1988 300se at 186k....see how your back and ass feel after 10 hours behind the wheel of a honda...and see how many chicks want you to 'take me for a ride' in your accord..gas wont be around for much longer anyway, i'm going out in style..

"Is merecedes too troublesome ?"

You pay to play. Wanted a 240D since I was in high school. I showed my dad a 1976 Eldorado caddy, I told him, I would never be able to afford one. He said " Son when you can afford one you probably will not want one."
He was right about the Eldo. Its all relative!!! :rolleyes:

I have a feeling that the W210's quality problems are grossly overblown, especially here on the board. Overall they are solid cars, and should last a long time if taken care of. Our '99 E430 has been bulletproof, with its most expensive repair being a broken radio. Our '96 E320 has also been very low maintenance so far. I feel that if you were to take a survey of W210 owners, most would have positive things to say about their ownership experience.

Both my Mercedes mechanics tell me that W210's are the most trouble free Benz they work on.

Later on
 

Seems that later-build Mercedes are not what they used to be in terms of quality and craftmanship. The partly because of the fact that they're manufacturing parts in other countries now to reduce costs and the requirements the "consumer market" imposes on their marketing/management teams.

As far as I'm concerned I'll stick with my W123 300TD Estate for as long as I could find usable parts. Needles to say it's engine still runs like a swiss watch after more then 27 years!

Its true that these cars sometimes go the most complicated design route. The fuel system and ACC are two examples. However if you are handy with a wrench and invest in the proper equipment, you can many times get it into top running condition yourself. The sense of satisfaction is something you can't get with an Asian clone-mobile. I've owned it for several months, and I haven't looked at another car yet. Thats a record!

dont stereotype
 

Lets Not say that people who drive camrys are not livin large. If they buy a $22,000 camry new than they have some money and want value. Driving a 11yr old car bought for say $8000 is not really livin large either(92 E320). Mercedes have charm and appeal, and status which most people here are after. Camry's and other japanese cars provide value, good gas milleage and reliability which other people appreciate more.

To each his own.