another 500E euro headlight question
 

I did a search already on the different threads concerning euro headlight conversions. There are alot of similar questions to the one I have here, but no thread seemed to address it and answer it directly. Here's my specific question that I haven't been able to find a definitive answer on yet.

I just got a 1990 W124 300E 4-Matic from a friend. I want to do a Euro headlight conversion and install an HID kit. I have read that the 500E lights replace the H3 fog light with a H1 driving light (pencil beam). Since the HID kit is only single beam, I would like to have the 500E headlight to replace the hi beams the HID takes away. I don't live in a fog prone area, so not having foglights isn't a concern.

My question is: Will the 500E euro headlight fit on a 1990 300E?

Alot of the threads imply no problem, others say it needs to have the post '93 hood. Which is true?

I see a pair of late model '93-'95 euro headlamps on eBay. Do those replace the foglight with driving light (pencil beam ) also? Or is it only the Hella models?

In addition, before everyone chimes in about how much better Hella is than the cheaper brands like TYC and Depo, I realize this and I'm willing to accept that at half the price. I have Hella in my BMW E30, and yes they are great, but they didn't cost me $500+ either.

Also, before everyone says that HID's aren't worth it or some silliness about Sylvania Silverstars being equally bright, I've already made up my mind based on past experience with lighting. In my E30 I have Hella euro headlights in H4. WIth a Bosch relay harness, and Catz Zeta inline headlight boosters(ballasts). Yes my lights are way brighter than stock. Maybe even 2x+. But my friend with the same Hella euro headlights and an HID kit is still significantly brighter than even my setup. That's why since I'm starting from scratch with the 300E I'm starting outright with HID. Besides the amount of money I spent on ballasts, relay harnesses, high quality JDM PIAA bulbs, etc. It almost comes out to the same price as a deal priced all Philips components (including Philips bulbs) HID kit.

My main concern is the euro reflector pattern for the headlights and the driving light (pencil beam) and the ease of fitment in my car.

Thanks for the help. Once I get a clear answer I'll go ahead and order euro headlights. If people say that the 500E lights won't fit in my '90 300E I'll just go with the euro lights with the fog beam. But if it is possible I'll order the 500E lights.

Thanks

Yes, the 500E lights will fit your car. The only time you would need the post '93 hood would be if you're using post '93 headlights, although I've seen statements to the contrary.

If you want the 500E lights, then Hella's are the only game in town. The DEPO and TYC lights are 300E only. Some people have used chrome tape on the grey areas inside the light to make it look like the 500E, but they still look a little different due to the additional fluting on the lens of the 300E fogs.

I too had planned on getting the 500E lights and a xenon retrofit kit, but I read enough threads saying this was not a good idea due to the different light source characteristics of the xenon bulb. Additionally, I believe the DOT or some other .gov agency shut down the aftermarket xenon business as they did not meet some standard (FMSVV108 or something like that).

dko3tgk

first of all, w124 lights are the same thru out models and years.

in '94 & '95 cars the hood was changed,there fore the LENS shape was changed to fit around new hood. also the 'e' designation came before the model number. examples e500 vs 500e and so on.

the 500e lights do NOT take a h1 bulb. they take the standard h3.

500e lights will fit on your car.

hella is the ONLY manufacturer of 500e/e500 euro lights.
these all have driving lights instead of fogs.

my personal opinion is hid's are not designed for the regular h4 lense and reflector, there fore imo potentially dangerous to others on the road.

go to the daniel stern website if you want to know the 'facts' regarding this conversion.

it is your car and your choice to get hids or not.

i'm not trying to give you a hard time, sometimes technologies aren't really compatible. most [euro] hid cars have a automatic leveling system when hids are used-extra safety margin.
too much light in someones eyes can be very dangerous. i know i would not enjoy encountering 'the rising sun' on a dark road.

if you really want to have them, yes the 500e set-up seems most logical because of high beam capability.

run.exe and several others here have done or doing this mod, you can also search at bnzsport some people there have done this too.
does [some of] this answer your questions?

peter

thanks
 

yup, those were the answers I was looking for.

It stinks now that I have to decide whether to plop down $500+ on the headlights.

By the way as to the aftermarket HID stuff, it's illegal to sell not to buy. As of August or something. It just means that' it's harder to get. The good thing about H4 is that you can use almost all the parts from a generic D2S system. ANd just a little modification. So no need for imported illegal kits.

THe good thing about H4 conversions is that you can just use a stock D2S setup and just by adapter rings that fit it into the H4. Also if you buy the Caspers Electronics adapters, it also incorporates a glare shield. It prevents the light from hitting the bottom of the refector and keep the light from going up into peoples eyes. Plus everyone says you need to aim the lights a little lower than average. It'll be fine. Even the SUV's have levelers, but have you ever been behind one in traffic? You feel like you've been pulled over and they are shining the floodlight into your car. This is because the lights are so high up that they are pointed right at your head at close distance.

The reason everyone gets mad about HID aftermarket setups is that most people don't shield the bottom of the bulb. YEs that creates unecessary glare, it's not even useful light. Even H4 halogens have a shield under the low beam filament for the same reason. I intend to do the same thing. Plus, with the euro beam pattern that helps alot, plus even if I lose some of the light due to efficiency issues, HID still is brighter than a halogen would be.

I have read Daniel Sterns page in the past. He's very technical about all of this which is good, I've learned alot from it, I also like to incorporate experience. As I said in the original post, my friend with the same car, same Hella reflectors with HID, is way brighter than my relay and ballast halogen setup.
But thanks for all your input and for answering my questions.

Is the install any different in the 500E euro conversion? I'm assuming no, but if there is a difference let me know.


Thanks again for all your help. Thanks for answering my specific questions too.

I'll try to take a picture of headlights from behind the drivers seat with stock lighting and after euro conversion and HID. It'll take some time though.

One quick question! If I put euro 300E headlight on US vision 300E, will it fit well (don't need change hood)??? It's because I have a friend in Germany. He can help me to buy an euro headlight (Hella or Bosch). Thanks

re- euro install

it would be the same except you want the dimmer/turn signal switch to control driving lights/high beams vs [current set up] light switch control.

i would wire them so hids were on with high beams.

have you looked at the philips & sylvania kits?

just thinking, they have been around for a long time and will be there if you have problems done the road.

we want pictures.

btw-welcome to m.b.shop!

peter

Please let us know the $$$. The lowest price I've seen is $239 from German Star.

Thank you for welcoming to the owners fanatics club. Hopefully I'll be able to contribute.

I'll probably be ordering from a guy on Ebay. Some guy named Niko in Germany. He has the 300E headlights, the TYC or Depo ones, all the bulbs, and clear corners, and free shipping from Germany for $270. Pretty decent deal, he's a good communicator by email, I plan to buy from him. He also lets you add on smoked tails for $80(approx.)
So that's the deal I'll probably go for. Hella in my mind isn't worth double. ANd since I plan to get an HID kit for around $300. I would probably reallocate the money there instead of the HElla euros.

If anyone knows a low cost 500E euro source, I'd like to hear about it.

I'm looking at an HID kit on GroupBuyCenter.com There is a vendor named Discount Cycle that always offers high quality stuff. LAst group buy that I saw him offer was an H4 kit of all Philips components, he offered a wiring harness to to make it plug and play, but no rebased bulbs. MEaning that if I had to replace a bulb, I just buy a bulb that are used in all the factory HID systems. I'll be using halogens until he offers another group buy.

dko3tgk,

I have the EXACT setup you are looking for!! The driving light uses an H3 bulb (not H1).

The HID's are excellent. Some members tried to discourage me from adding HID's but I had my mind made up. All my cars have ecodes and HID kits and I am happy with the performance.

'92 &'93 500E ecodes will fit your '90 4MATIC and allow you to meet your objective. I purchased mine from PUMA and they are Hellas. I feel that they were worth the money.

Only issues are:
1. The bulb out indicator lamp in dash stays on. I covered it with a piece of electrical tape. I do not need it anyway since I check my lights every week.

2. The HID low beams do not stay on with the high beams. They stay on when flashing though. I chose not to look for a fix.

Hope this helps.

did you find it worth it to have the driving lights?
 

Thanks for the info and support DeeBee.

I have a question for you. Since you did the exact conversion I want to do. Do you find the pencilbeams as hi beams useful? Do you find yourself using them alot?

I'm still considering just going with the Depo/TYC 300E euros, with fogs instead of pencil beams. Cost is still playing a factor.

With the HID in your low beams, do you feel the need to use your hi beams often? Or not that often? While I know it's partly relative to your normal driving conditions, I was just wondering that since you had crazy bright HID's as low beams now, if you feel the need to use your hi beams?

$100+ more for the 500E lights is alot for a feature I may not use that often.

Others with the conversion feel free to chime in.

Or those with the 300E euros and HID without hi beams. Do you miss it?

Thanks

A lot of mbshop people got their Depos from here. They have good prices.

$249 a pair.

http://www.importvision.com/PickAccessories.php?PartMake=Mercedes

dko3tgk,

Frankly, I do not use my high/pencil beams much but I do find them useful. Generally, the only time I am forced to use them is when when flashing someone or when on really dark country roads and I want to see a lot farther ahead.

The HID's are just AMAZING. I would never have it any other way especially because generally I do not blind oncoming traffic due to the ecode light output design.

I agree that the 500E ecodes are costly and if I were to do this over again I would still buy them over 300E ecodes.

I had initially purchased my HID kit for my Subaru Legacy. I lost high beam capability on the Subaru which proved to be frustrating on many occasions. (The Subaru also did not have ecodes so I know glare was a problem and the light pattern was not nearly half as good as it is on the Benz).

Given the choice between fogs and high beams, I would rather have high beams. Just my $.02.

what are the part #'s for the 500E Hella euros?
 

Can anyone tell me the part #'s for the 500E pre-'94 Hella euros for the W124?

I'm trying to get a price quote from a guy in Germany, but he says he doesn't think that the 300E and 500E Hellas are different.

If someone could supply me with the part #'s I would appreciate it. I may get lucky and he may be able to price them lower than PUMA.

thanks

dko3tgk,

The part numbers on my invoice from PUMA are:

210-54371 - Left headlight
210-54381 - Right headlight

I'm not sure if these are the entire part numbers. My guess is that there is a 124 prefix missing from the numbers.

what I decided on.
 

So I went for the big money.

500E Hella lights.
D2S OEM Hid components: Osram 4100k D2S bulbs adn Hella ballasts, with Caspers H4 HID glare shields
Clear corners, clear lens, not prism
H3 PIAA Xtreme White 85 watt bulbs. 85 actual wattage, not 55-->85. For the pencil beams.
Generic smoked and red taillamps.

HID kit already arrived, waiting for the 500E lights corners and tails to come from Germany. H3 bulbs are currently backordered.

I wanted to take pictures of the lights from behind the wheel of: stock, vs. E-Code w/halogen vs. HID with E-code. But since the HID kit is already there I'll probably just have stock vs. HID with E-code.

I'll post here when I finish the install, and have the pictures. It might be a few weeks, the shipping from Germany is supposed to be 1-2 weeks.

So you are getting the early style 500E Hella Euro lights from NIKO. I have seen him selling stuff on ebay, but I have never tried him.

Currently, I am working on a group buy for 500E euro lights through puma. They currently have two sets in stock and a few more on the way. I have to get together five sets of lights.

Also on December 23rd, I have a set of Hella 500E euro lights coming in from Berlin, they should be here by the first week of the new year. If you still haven't gotten yours, then let me know I can help you out.

I hope you plan on doing the vacuum adjust with the Euro lights because that would make it really easy to (self-(yourself)-level them).

So I read through your entire thread. Can you explain this H4 conversion? Do you Take real xenon bulbs, balasts, etc, and you put an adapter into the H4 reflector to accomplish this right?

I think I would put xenons in the driving light as well, and Hella makes a really nice small HID xenon auxiliary light. They are almost 600 bucks though =).

If you need any help on getting euro parts let me know if Niko can't delivery.

Regards,

I just chose to write to Niko at first to get a quote for the 300E Depo lights and the clear corners and the smoked and red tails. Then I inquired into 500E lights. At first he said they didn't exist, but he checked and said he could get them.

He's a good communicator, and his prices were pretty good compared to PUMA, and he was selling me the corners, tails and 500E lights all at once. The only issue is the shipping time from Germany. But this package all together costs so much I'm willing wait longer to save a few bucks.

Yes I am doing the HID install the way you said.
On Ebay I bought a set containing, Hella ballasts and Osram 4100k D2S bulbs. I bought Caspers Electronics H4 adapters/glare shields. I will be putting these in the 500E H4 headlights. The input to the ballasts are 9006 pigtails, all I need to do is connect that to an H4 harness. So plug the H4 power into the new harness, that runs into the ballasts and out throught the bulb which is fitted into the reflector with the Caspers Electronics H4 adapter/shield.
Of course I hope its this easy to actually do. I just have the parts now. Need to figure out a good spot for the ballasts.

By the way for those who care, the Caspers shields were cut for Phillips bulbs, not Osram. My osram bulbs have an extra plastic ring around the edge that didn't let it fit into the caspers adapters. I had to Dremel them off. Now it fits perfectly. Don't worry its not a major piece it doesn't effect anything. But if you are goign to use Caspers shields and don't want the extra trouble buy Phillips bulbs.

The vacuum levelers are not on my to do list as of now. I've spent way too much money on these lights already. If it looks like I need them after having them without for awhile I'll put it on the to do list.
Same goes for the Euro wipers. Its too expensive to just put on as an accessory. Seriously two small motors and wiper arms costing hundreds? It's nice to have and looks more authentic, but I'll do without it until I can get it cheap.

While HID driving lights would be nice, that's a waste of money, I don't use them enough to justify the additional cost. I'm using PIAA 85 watt Xtreme White H3. BEfore half the board chimes in and says things like "Sylvania Silverstars are brighter than baseball stadium floodlights or everything but Silverstars are cheap Korean made blue coated bulbs", I've made up my mind. I've used many different halogen bulbs. ANd to be honest, in the 9004 and 9007 size I don't think any halogen bulb is great. They all suck. H4's and probably H7's are the real test. I've been to Asia a number of times on a semi-regular basis and tried many different brands of bulbs. The major market brands in Japan, like PIAA, Gigalux, Raybrig, Polarg, Bellof, Catz are all very bright. Some brighter than others, but all the bashing of foreign bulbs comes from the people who buy the $20 junk Korean made bulbs from Ebay. Even the US market PIAA bulbs aren't as good as the Japanese market ones. They always seemed to be powered down in brightness. Most of the higher model lines of the brands I listed above are brighter than Silverstars. However there are a few that are specifially colored for show cars, like bulbs that are dark blue in color, advertised as "ocean blue". BUt those are exceptions. True they aren't easily accessible to Americans. But they are bright. I currently use PIAA Xtreme Force H4 bulbs in my E30 with Catz ballasts/boosters, and my lights are way brighter than any Silverstar. I know to some people that's heresy, but until you have compared the better Japanese market brands and models with Silverstars, stop bashing it. Upgrading to euro reflectors make alot of difference. That plus better bulbs is the way to go.

Thanks for the offer for Euro parts. I didn't see any group buy offers when I first started pricing these items. ANd I saw one thread where no one responded to one guy asking about a group buy for 500E headlights. So I just went ahead and priced it myself. If I do additional projects in the future I'll let you know.

dko3tgk,

Currious, where did you get your catz ballasts??


For the H-3's , just got the Narva/philips 130 watt bulbs. Do you think the PIAA 85 watt bulbs are really much brighter than the 130 watt bulbs?
Never seen an HID conversion... I'd like to drive or ride in a converted W124 before dropping $$$$. The improvement to even 55/60 H-4's and Euro in my W123 was simply amazing.

Did you get it all relayed up?
Can someone explain which ones are the "clear with strip" turnsignal lenses. Are they the Euro bosch or Hella's?


Michael

The Catz Zeta kit that I use for my halogens in my E30 I bought off Ebay last year. I think they are pretty rare now. The reason is that Catz was shifting their US focus to the HID kits, and phasing out the halogen realted stuff. But when after market HID kits became illegal, I think they withdrew alot from the US market, maybe only fog lights now. I have a pair of the H4 inline ballasts that are plug and play, not necessary to go throught the fuse box, like on the newer models. It pops up on Ebay once in blue moon but less so these days.

No I wouldn't say that the PIAA Xtreme White 85 watts in H3 are brighter than the Narva 130 watt bulbs. I felt more comfortable with 85 than with going higher. And I have had really good experience with PIAA's Xtreme White product line.

No I didn't relay up the W124 HID setup
I just mounted the ballasts to the back of the headlight units and after changing the wiring harness to the Euro one, just plugged the HID into the headlight harness. I may steal the one out of my E30 to put into the W124 for the HID, but I'm in no rush right now.

I'll put a few pictures of how the HID conversion looks when I get off my lazy butt and download the pics off the digital camera memory card.

If you install HID in the H4 sockets of a Mercedes euro light, the beam pattern will not be optimal for HID, as the lenses are designed with particular cutoffs for halogen bulbs. It's a better idea to put HID's in the driving lights of 500E euro lights because the lenses are clear and won't give you a funky beam pattern.

Not to throw water on anybodies parade, but I find HID lamps to be plain blinding on other cars -- the near UV and blue is so intense I cannot keep my eyes open. Doesn't matter if they are factory or retrofit. I don't know if my cornea's fluoresce or what, but all UV light does me in. White fog everywhere. Probably incipient cataracts, but the result is the same. To me, those HIDs are PAINFULLY to bright. I'm not alone, either.

On top of the glare, they wipe out everyone elses night vision. YOU can see just fine, but the poor bastard in the other lane will run off the road after being blinded. You will also have no night vision, so will not see anything outside of the beam, even in moonlight. It was discovered during WWII that blue light cancels night vision adaptation. That's why many european cars have fairly dim low wattage dash lights -- BMW used to be orange. Too much blue and the night vision goes bye-bye for at least 20 min. Warships at night use only red light inside so that the deck officers keep their night vision.

I personally would like to see all HID lamps filtered to reduce the near UV and far blue light for saftey purposes (not the driver's -- all the rest of the cars on the road!).

The US DOT regulations are what they are for just this reason -- not only does a driver need to see, but oncoming driver's need to as well! DOT errs a bit too much toward low glare (mostly because the regulations date from 1950 or 1951), but they aren't crazy!

That said, I hit a deer last week and a set of DEPO Euros isn't much more than a used DOT headlight assembly. Guess what I'm buying!

Peter

Hmm, I think you should buy another set of OEM DOT headlights and retrofit an HID capsule within!:D

Not a chance!

The problem with the DOT headlights is the reflector design, compounded by the fog that collects on the insides of the lenses.

I just stopped and put the reflector/lens assembly off my brother's W126 on tonight -- I'd put a bulb in, and guess what, it rained. Pop, another $8 down the drain....

The W126 lens fits right in after I moved a clip. Aim is, well, somewhat off (no high beams, points right at the other side of the road!), but my oh my, there's LIGHT out there! Looks pretty strange, but at least I have a headlamp on that side now!

The W124 DOT lens design has got to be a low point for MB -- its terrible!

HID won't help much, either -- plenty of light comes out with no lens on there, just in a concentrated beam with next to no spread (and a big dark spot, too!) -- has to the be lens.

Peter

How about some pics of this wonderful project of yours. Are they ready yet?