Should I buy a E320 or E420?
 

Hello,

I am a new member and was wondering if someone could direct me in the right direction with my choice of a used MB. I am thinking of buying a 93-95 model of E320 or E420. Does anybody know what is the best buy?

Also, out of curiosity, I want to know more about a 1994 E420 . However, I am afraid it would be more troublesome and costly to maintain than a E320, because they are rarer models (more difficult to find parts, V8 engine, etc...) Do my concerns make sense? But the E420 has of course massive power.

Wow. I recommend you use the search feature and use words like : wiring harness, OVP, evaporator (sp?), throttle actuator, head gasket, water pump and other qualifiers like 1994, M104, M119, W124 or E320 and E420. The popular opinion here here is that once the bugs are worked out the E320 from '94 to '95 they are awesome cars (I own one) but the E420 seems to be a favorite here.

There is a strange thing with the 94-95 E320 and E420 cars. Usually, I would always recommend the smaller engine if you're interested in lower operating costs. This situation is an exception.

Thanks to VERY tall final drive gearing, the E420 hasn't much of a fuel economy penalty compared to the E320. However, that gearing also steals some performance. If you're inclined, a change of the final drive ratio gives near-E500 performance, but with a resulting economy loss.

The M119 is very durable with only a few easy solved problems. Oil feed tubes in the heads are easily replaced. The V-8 cars have looooong timing chains that have to be changed more often than the short six cylinder ones, but the M119 is nothing like the M116 for chain problems.

The E420 sold for a hefty premium over the E320 when new (in Canada I remember is was over $10K difference) but in the used market there is little difference in pricing for a clean "last of" the W124's.

The M104 suffers from the same issues as the M119 in the chassis department (wiring harness) but has the added worry of the head gasket. There is some talk that once the "updated" M104 gasket is installed, it's fixed, but some people seem to be replacing head gaskets on a regular basis.

What I would recommend is simply finding the best car you can, and buying it. Also, don't pay too much attention to very low mileage. These cars don't like to sit idle. Don't pay extra for low miles.

The 420 is the only way to go – bigger brakes, quieter inside, more subtle suspension, nicer interior, lots more giddy up and so on. It’ll cost a little more for tune ups, but you get significantly improved performance in virtually every measurable way for the bargain.

Plus, if you wanna toss a few $$ to increase performance further, there are lots of simple bolt-on options. On mine, adding only a 500E front sway bar and slightly over sized sneakers added cornering stability, cut down wheel spin and removed half of the body role. Next project is a 500E rear sway bar and HD shocks all around, and the car will have about 85% of the cornering prowess of my former Porsche. Even though you can bolt the same parts on to the 320, the comparatively anemic 3.2 6 banger engine will never deliver the way the 4.2 does.

And fuel consumption – mine gets about 26 mph on hiway trips and, well I never pay attention around town, but would guess 18-20 is typical

Get a nicer toy and you will never regret it.....:cool:

My personal choice was the E420
 

I've enjoyed mine for over four years now. It's my primary commute car (70 miles round trip), so it racks up the miles quickly. I have over 110,000 on her now and she's still running perfectly. When I was considering a W124, I test drove both E320 and E420, and to me, the choice was clear. The added power of the E420 was the deciding factor for me. The E420 in stock form is just about perfect except for the consensus that the stock tires are too small. I did a subtle +1 upgrade to 16" rims and wider tires. It did wonders for the car's handling.

The slightly nicer interior of the E420 was a bonus.

Warren

Yes, 195/65-15 tires and 275hp are not a good mix. The super tall rear ratio helps a bit, but an E420 can be a real handful in wet weather if you're the least bit ham-fisted with the throttle.

Most E420's I see have 16" wheels with 205/55-16 or 225/50-16's on the them. The eight-hole wheels look great and can be found at pretty low prices for knock-offs or even take-offs for OE wheels. Then the 15" wheels are super for snow tires.

Having owned W124 300E with the M104 3.2 motor, I would say get the E420. New they were much more than the 6cylinder, but, as stated earlier, they are very closely priced. Don't get me wrong the M104 is great have 145k on mine, never let me down, other than the typical repairs, radiator...wiring harness... head gasket....A/C.... and it still runs past 140mph if I need it to....But the E420 will deliver more acceleration, hands down.

FQ

I've owned three cars in my life: a 1988 Geo my wife inherited from her grandmother (thankfully gone, the car not the grandmother), a 1997 MB C230, and a 1994 MB E320. I rarely drive the E320, but next to those other two cars, I feel like I'm driving a Porsche or Ferrari. Don't get me wrong, the M104 E320 is no muscle car, but 225 hp is totally sufficient. I have driven some pretty sweet cars in my life, but the M104 SOUNDS and FEELS better than most of them. Run the 104 through it's power band and you can't help but smile. The M119 could only be better, though.

Can anybody elaborate the difference in suspension between E420/400E and E320/300E?

It looks like almost all part numbers are the same, maybe sway bars is different?

I changed rear shocks on my 400E, the Bilstein shocks I got were the same as those for 300Es,

Front and rear swaybars are fatter. I upgraded my swaybars to Sportline on my 300E, nice difference.

FQ

Thanks,

400E/E420's power shines at speed higher than 40kmph, particularly when kicking down for speed at 60kmph(37mph) and 120kmph(75mph), these are 2 killer power bands of 400E/E420, gear will drop to 1st and 2nd respectively, 1st gear will pull to 80kmph and 2nd gear to 140kmph!
It normally blows competitors away in these 2 bands. Overall they are built as highway cruisers, my drives are 95% highway, so I like it dearly.

For stop and go traffic at any speed lower than 40kmph, don't even try to race with a Corolla, IMO, tall gear along with excessive understeer are the biggest shortcomings.

The problem with just about every Mercedes ever made (even the small diesels) is that they are so much better at high speed than around town. My own C230 "sits" best at about 150 km/h.

Unfortunately, the RCMP don't have a special "sweet spot" speed limit for MB owners!

I agree that Mercedes, and also BMW, feel better as road speed increases. When I was much younger I bought a new BMW 2002 in 1971. It was more comfortable at 75mph than at 55. Many of us remember President Nixon's mandate to reduce the national speed limit to 55. My 94 E320, which I have owned just one month has the same characteristic - the faster it runs, the better it feels.
regards,
Mark

E320 or E420
 

I recently purchased a 1995 E420 about a month ago.After looking at Ebay Auto Trader Hemmings and many other sites i had my mind set on an E320.

Right before i was able to purchase the E320 that i really wanted someone bought it.So it was back to the drawing board.I had tons of Mercedes saved up in files.

One day while searching i ran across an 95 E420 Special Edition in the color i liked.

The asking price to me was unbelievable on top of me not thinking that this Benz would still be around.

I had to drive over 900 miles just to see it.I called the owner in Massachussets to see if it was truly still available.

I got there about 30 minutes after they closed.I stopped by to look at the Benz and the picture did it no justice.

As i walked around it i kept thinking WOW! The color was exactly what i was looking for.

It was onwed by a physician who had service records from day one.The attendant started it for me and said take it for a spin.

As i sat there getting familarized in the cockpit a friend who was in the passenger seat said start it up.

I began to touch the key in the ignition when i remembered that there was smoke coming from the exhaust.

You could not actually tell that this car was running.As we pulled out from the dealership just an ever so slight press on the pedal showed me that this baby was built for the autobahn.

I could'nt help from keeping a sly grin as i drove it home.It performed flawlessly.

Today it is still as smooth as day one.Don't tell anyone but at times when i get up in the middle of the night i sneek and take a peek at her.

If you get the chance the E420 is the way to go.Once it gets a hold of you you will never be the same.

It gets in your blood and there's actually not a cure for it except to appease her as she begs you to press just a little harder on the pedal so she can show you what she can do.

You'll never regret it.Sorry for the long post but i attribute it to the effect she now has on me.

I agree with whoever said this is the exception to the rule - the bigger engine is easier to take care of. Gas mileage is about the same, 420 purchase price only slightly higher. The car is so understressed in normal driving it's just ridiculous. There's no rational reason not to get the 420.

Re: E320 or E420
 

I agree 100%! The one i ended up buying was in NY. I had a PPI done by a MB dealer (who was not the place i bought it from), and the shop manager was nice enough to do the inspection himself and gave me a detailed report. After that i had it shipped to Seattle.

Oh, also, word to the wise: If you buy from any dealer, be sure to get a warranty, get the most coverage and the lowest deductable offered. I paid for a Wynns warranty. It covered a whole lot and offered 4 years and 48 thousand miles of warranty coverage. It was more than worth the cost and i still have about 2 years or 28 thousand miles of coverage remaining.

I agree with all the response RE the E420. Only downside is your mechanic will not be too pleased if he has to work on the M119 engine that has been crammed into the W124 body. It's pretty obvious the W124 chassis was not intended to have V8 power - its an impressive fit job but lots of things take 2X to 3X more time due to very tight clearances under the hood.

The M119 will also run hotter - its important to have a well maintained cooling system if you are in hot climates.

Tim

My $.02
 

Buy a 500E.

Hey, mine happens to be for sale!

Great deal.

Dave

I know its not as poweful as the M119, but the old 24-valve straight six delivers such a wonderful chorus when getting up to its 6400 rpm redline it brings tears to my eyes. That wonderful German gutteral six sound echoing back into the cabin off of buildings you pass by. Like my old '85 280SEL(I NEVER should have sold that car. I loved it to death, but so did winter salt).
Also, I believe that wonderful sound is what the new V6 lacks. It doesn't seem to have the same character as the I6. Of course that's just my opinion.

My W210 already has the 2.82 differential with overdrive.:D As far as fuel economy, with the overdrive I have gotten as high as 27.5 mpg. Usually average around 22 - 24 mpg 'round town.

Let's see... out of both my cars (Toyota Celica and E420, both 95s)

I bought my E420 from Hatch and Sons. www.hatchandsons.com

I paid a lot for it to be honest but they did put 4 new brake pads and discs, 4 new shocks, new belts, resprayed the bumper, and some other little stuff I don't remember.

They warranteed it for 1/2 a year and during that period I brought it in because my AC kept cutting off ( I swear it was the relay). They replaced the fan clutch because it was noisy and replaced the relay finally. The AC was great after. I brought it in a few times after to have a few things adjusted (free of charge) and it's been flawless ever since.

The M119 (though unfortunately it's not in its 5.0 liter form), is really smooth. It's not that fast but the SOUND... and the smoothness is just amazing. I've had people who know nothing about cars sit in the car and comment "wow... nice sound" when the engine rips past 2500rpm.

The 500E is something else obviously :D

The E420's nicer interior is also a welcome plus.

I drove and almost purchased a dark blue E320 Special Edition with cream interior, all leather, burlwood and everything.

It was fast..... and the M104 sounded beautiful! But the M119 definitely makes the W124 a really fine automobile. (It's even nice with a 2.0l carburated I-4 engine ;) in the 200 form)

sorry for being long winded. If I had the choice.. I'd definitely go the V8 way ;)

im definitely biased though...


Good luck!

Either one is an awesome car.

BTW, yeah... the way the E420 accelerates above 60mph is amazing. It's just so effortless.

The celica's been pretty reliable...

It needs a new rear wiper motor $400 installed at the dealer, and two ABS speed sensors ($800) and the fender is so soft I could change its shape by pulling/pushing it out by hand.

then again.. it's a Toyota ;) :D

the arguments for the E420 should also apply to the 400E, right? Since they are older, they should be less expensive.

and with the difference in price between the two, you can invest in Bosch Euro-headlamps, and it will do wonders for the looks of the car and performance of the headlamps. And if you have money left, you can purchase 16" 8-hole wheels and wider tires.

the E420 is the prettier of the two, with its more elegant grille and headlamps. <nitpicking>But if someone attempts to steal your star, they can scratch the paint on the hood </nitpicking>

As I tell myself everyday after I drive my S 500 L: there is nothing like Mercedes-Benz V-8 power, period.

Just on this issue alone, you should get the E420!

BUT, you may consider a couple of interesting facts regarding this model:

The W124 M119-engined E420 was produced almost exclusively for the U.S. and Canadian markets to satisfy the urgency of more power and capacity (compared to the E320). Hence, it became a real limited number model.

M.B. factories in Europe could not fit such small numbers for a special niche model in their lines, so basically what they ended up doing was shipping unassembled W124s bodies and fully assembled M119 engines to Mexico.

In Mexico, at a Mercedes-Benz truck plant or the VW plant in Puebla (not sure which), workers will put together the W124 bodies and fit the M119 in it.

So purists consider this a total sin, preferring the E320 over the E420 just for this fact. Also, some E 420 owners complained about fit and finish problems (that the euro E320s did not present).

The other factor to consider is the the W124 chassis was never intended nor design in principle to carry a V-8 engine. Euro models had a wide range of 4, 5 and 6 cylinder engine options.

The fitting of the V-8 generated some cooling, suspension, and engine mount issues on the E 420 and E 500 W124s.

I am NOT trying to rain on your parade or anyone else, just wanted to share a couple of facts that you might consider important to make your purchase.

<<<<The W124 M119-engined E420 was produced almost exclusively for the U.S. and Canadian markets to satisfy the urgency of more power and capacity (compared to the E320). Hence, it became a real limited number model.>>>>endqoute

Interesting stuff. Where did you hear this? Any further evidence?
Seems like if MBZ could find a way to stuff Turbodiesels in 116 and 126 chassis during the eighties (ok, from '78), just for the US, that they could put 4.2s in 124 cars without a problem? Were the european models then sent back to germany? This car was perhaps designed with the US market in mind, but was not a US only model. I'm not sure I buy this.

BUT, If its true, I'm buying a big "hecho en Mexico" bumper sticker!:cool:

Mike

I would also like to see some evidence to back up "400E/E420 made in Mexico", as I have brought up this topic before, from VIN number, my 400E showed it was made in Germany, I would think MB wouldn't risk its corporate integrity for this.

I knew E 420s owners who did not know about the "MADE IN MEXICO" issue would get highly sensitive about its REALITY.

Attached below is the official full production list for all model cars (tourstis as they officialy call them in Europe) made by Mercedes-Benz for production years 1995-1996 (tour. 95). This full production list covers models sold throught Europe, Latin America, some African and Asian countries (as it clearly refers for "lefthand drive").

Proof #1: Does anyone see a W124 E 420 / 400 E listed here?

I also have all the specific catalogs for W124 models for every year from 1986 up to 1995/6 in German and Spanish for the local markets in Germany, Spain and Latin America. No E 420 appears at in any on them.

In 1994 I ask the local M.B. dealer if an E 420 could be imported into the country. His answer was, and I quote: "E 420s are limited production models created exclusively for the U.S.A. and Canada, they are being assembled in México. We could provide you a quote on it, although we highly recommed against importing this model because we have recieved several negative comments about its final build quality. Get an E 500 instead."

Proof #2: Call the MBUSA toll free number and demand to know where exactly your E 420 was finally assembled. They should (by law) answer México.

VIN numbers does not at reflect country of final manufacture for a vehicle, since 100% of the pieces where coming from Germany for the E 420 and they were just put together in México, the car could be considered still German. Ask any G.M. pick-up owner about it.

Finally, would you have considered buying an E 420 at the Mercedes-Benz showroom if they had glued a big sticker on the side window that shouted: "PROUDLY BUILT IN MEXICO". I guess not. And please, do not get me wrong, I don't have anything against Mexican built goods, the matter is that if a consumer wants to pay for German engineering, he/she usually wants Geman built engineering.

Here is some more information:

E320 Review

E420 Review

E500 Review

Sorry, here is the official production list for W124s sedans on 1994-5 as explained on the previous post:

Why does is show 190E's on the 1994-95 list? :confused:

300D Turbo 4 matic? That sounds pretty sweet why can't we get any of the cool models in the US. I wounder if you could get it with a 5 speed manual, cloth seats and manual everything. I would buy one in a seconed!

Interesting, but what model year does that listing represent? It can't be '95 as there are 190s listed. I see a 300E-24 (early 104)which would have been a pre 1993 (maybe pre '92?) model. So this may be a 1991 list- first year for the 500E.



Still need more proof. Intriguing info however.

Mike

hehe interesting. I love Mexican food. I guess I have a taste for mexican stuff ;)

honestly, am I dissapointed. Maybe a little.

hhmm where's that E500...

E 320 vs. E 420
 

E 220T:

I've owned both the E 320 and the E 420 models. In every regard, the E 420 is a much better performing car. It's also more reliable and quieter running.

Good Luck

On the E420 97-2000 models are there any known problems to look out for?

1997 was the last year for the E420. After that i was the E430. As far as know problems with the E420, I haven't heard of anything that always goes wrong. I can tell you that rust around the trunk LED receiver is typical in the rust belt. The hole for this receiver was not properly treated at the factory.

I just read (did some searching) that it had some problems with the 722.6 transmissions. Was 1997 the only year they used the 722.6?
Thanks.

I thought that trasnsmission was used from 1997 - 2002? 1996 was the only year of the W210 with the 4 speed, but that should be bulletproof.

The early 1997 722.6 had problems. I believe cars produced late in the year had an upgraded transmission.
I had my 97 E420 checked by the dealer (produced October 1997 - so one of the very last ones) and they said that it had the upgraded valve body, they also claim they upgraded the software (but it think that a bunch of c..p).